Where are you going tonight?

[Hoboh]

OK, here are a few pictures, primarily on the chapel my father has been building for the past year on his estate there.

The pictures are huge, but here's one for good measure:



http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/3187/chandelier1.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://img857.imageshack.us/img857/8582/chapel5.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/7885/chapel6.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/3766/chapel7.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://img810.imageshack.us/img810/6685/chapel8.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/7826/cross2i.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/7646/i ... ndles5.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/6150 ... hapel4.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/5825/mist2v.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/4256/tower1.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That is well "mint" and such a fine surrounding too boot!

[William the White]

Not tonight but this afternoon went to a linchtime concert (free, donations to Amnesty) at the Quaker Meeting house in Manchester. An a cappella choir from Budapest singing sacred and secular madrigals. Stunning. Glorious singing.

One of the enduring contradictions that a murderous catastophe like mainstream Christianity can also produce works of art, music, architecture that are wonderful and beautiful.

This was great.

[thebish]

Not tonight but this afternoon went to a linchtime concert (free, donations to Amnesty) at the Quaker Meeting house in Manchester. An a cappella choir from Budapest singing sacred and secular madrigals. Stunning. Glorious singing.

we hosted a touring russian orthodox choir a few weeks ago - just 6 of them - but, between them they produced the most stunning musical experience - all a capella... the russian contrabasses are simple a miracle to behold!

[thebish]

One of the enduring contradictions that a murderous catastophe like mainstream Christianity can also produce works of art, music, architecture that are wonderful and beautiful.

This was great.

not sure what you think the contradiction is. the music/art/architectire is/was produced by people - people are capable of amazing things.

many artist architect and musician people went to the church because the church was commissioning such things - simple.

[TANGODANCER]

One of the enduring contradictions that a murderous catastophe like mainstream Christianity can also produce works of art, music, architecture that are wonderful and beautiful. This was great.

Probably the wrong thread entirely to be asking this WTW,but what exactly do you envisage would have happened differently in music and the arts had there been no Christianity/religion-in-general around? Medieval Clash, Pre-Rapaelite Banksy Grafitti, or Let's go to Stonehenge Solstice with flowers in our hair, maybe?

Just curious?

[thebish]

One of the enduring contradictions that a murderous catastophe like mainstream Christianity can also produce works of art, music, architecture that are wonderful and beautiful. This was great.

Probably the wrong thread entirely to be asking this WTW,but what exactly do you envisage would have happened differently in music and the arts had there been no Christianity/religion-in-general around? Medieval Clash, Pre-Rapaelite Banksy Grafitti, or Let's go to Stonehenge Solstice with flowers in our hair, maybe?

Just curious?

it may have contained different themes (and would certainly have had to find other sponsors and inspiration - and that's perfectly feasible) - but - chances are it would have been just as creative and beautiful. William is simply talking out of his arse, Tango... there is no "enduring contradiction" at all.

I listen to a lot of atheist comedians - and I can enjoy their work without the nagging thought - or preposterous proposition that it is somehow an enduring contradiction that such a murderous catastrophe as mainline atheism could also produce such rib-tickling humour... how on earth do i do this? simple - by recognising that the creativity is simply human. so, for that matter, is murderousness and extreme violence.

[William the White]

One of the enduring contradictions that a murderous catastophe like mainstream Christianity can also produce works of art, music, architecture that are wonderful and beautiful.

This was great.

not sure what you think the contradiction is. the music/art/architectire is/was produced by people - people are capable of amazing things.

many artist architect and musician people went to the church because the church was commissioning such things - simple.

Interesting. you don't think they were inspired by the love of god? Just looking for where the money was?

[thebish]

One of the enduring contradictions that a murderous catastophe like mainstream Christianity can also produce works of art, music, architecture that are wonderful and beautiful.

This was great.

not sure what you think the contradiction is. the music/art/architectire is/was produced by people - people are capable of amazing things.

many artist architect and musician people went to the church because the church was commissioning such things - simple.

Interesting. you don't think they were inspired by the love of god? Just looking for where the money was?

given that you enscoped art music and architecture - it would take a very bold man to propose that they all had the same motive - it would be a generalisation of epic proportion... - so - no! what about you?

[William the White]

One of the enduring contradictions that a murderous catastophe like mainstream Christianity can also produce works of art, music, architecture that are wonderful and beautiful.

This was great.

not sure what you think the contradiction is. the music/art/architectire is/was produced by people - people are capable of amazing things.

many artist architect and musician people went to the church because the church was commissioning such things - simple.

Interesting. you don't think they were inspired by the love of god? Just looking for where the money was?

given that you enscoped art music and architecture - it would take a very bold man to propose that they all had the same motive - it would be a generalisation of epic proportion... - so - no! what about you?

I've always felt the very best work united inspiration, vision, craft, desire and devotion. And is magnificent.

As was this lunchtime.

I'm sorry for the provocation - though, obviously, not my views. I don't want to hijack this thread any longer.

[thebish]

One of the enduring contradictions that a murderous catastophe like mainstream Christianity can also produce works of art, music, architecture that are wonderful and beautiful.

This was great.

not sure what you think the contradiction is. the music/art/architectire is/was produced by people - people are capable of amazing things.

many artist architect and musician people went to the church because the church was commissioning such things - simple.

Interesting. you don't think they were inspired by the love of god? Just looking for where the money was?

given that you enscoped art music and architecture - it would take a very bold man to propose that they all had the same motive - it would be a generalisation of epic proportion... - so - no! what about you?

I've always felt the very best work united inspiration, vision, craft, desire and devotion. And is magnificent.

As was this lunchtime.

I'm sorry for the provocation - though, obviously, not my views. I don't want to hijack this thread any longer.

all of which is irrelevant to your original assertion that it is somehow a contradiction for someone to belong to an organisation that has done evil things and still be able to create something beautiful - it simply isn't a contradiction - not on any level. in fact - even if you make the rather preposterous assumption that christian art (because christianity has done evil things) is all fashioned by bad people (as if every member of an organisation that has done evil things is him/herself evil in some way) - even if you allow that - then it would still not be a contradiction of any sort that they were capable of producing great art. So often great art comes from flawed people... try as I might - I can't see any sense in what you said at all... I can only imagine it was simply a lazy, ill-thought-out and badly-directed knee-jerk swipe...

is it really your view that it is a contradiction that people who belong to or are associated with an organisation that has done bad things can be capable of great art?? really?? - if so - that is frankly bizarre... some might say - hobohesque in its disconnect from the real world...

[Wandering Willy]

I'm not going outside to take pictures

[TANGODANCER]

Ah, a chance to show off my Spanish history and also support the Bish's argument:

The Alhambra Palace is one of the most beautiful man-made creations I've ever seen. Built by the Moors it honours Allah in every area by superb craftsmanship and inscription in tile and plaster-work. In it, is the Hall of the Abencerrajes, where Boabdil's father invited 36? (I'll stand correction on the number ) of his enemies to a banquet and slaughtered them all as they dined. Gorgeous art-work location, shame about the hosts.

[William the White]

not sure what you think the contradiction is. the music/art/architectire is/was produced by people - people are capable of amazing things.

many artist architect and musician people went to the church because the church was commissioning such things - simple.

Interesting. you don't think they were inspired by the love of god? Just looking for where the money was?

given that you enscoped art music and architecture - it would take a very bold man to propose that they all had the same motive - it would be a generalisation of epic proportion... - so - no! what about you?

I've always felt the very best work united inspiration, vision, craft, desire and devotion. And is magnificent.

As was this lunchtime.

I'm sorry for the provocation - though, obviously, not my views. I don't want to hijack this thread any longer.

all of which is irrelevant to your original assertion that it is somehow a contradiction for someone to belong to an organisation that has done evil things and still be able to create something beautiful - it simply isn't a contradiction - not on any level. in fact - even if you make the rather preposterous assumption that christian art (because christianity has done evil things) is all fashioned by bad people (as if every member of an organisation that has done evil things is him/herself evil in some way) - even if you allow that - then it would still not be a contradiction of any sort that they were capable of producing great art. So often great art comes from flawed people... try as I might - I can't see any sense in what you said at all... I can only imagine it was simply a lazy, ill-thought-out and badly-directed knee-jerk swipe...

is it really your view that it is a contradiction that people who belong to or are associated with an organisation that has done bad things can be capable of great art?? really?? - if so - that is frankly bizarre... some might say - hobohesque in its disconnect from the real world...

I'm really not going to hijack it any more. I just wanted to answer your question. In my mind was the memory of some beautiful music. I also apologised for the provocation at the same time, and, of course, i understand your response to it. I will avoid the polemic, however tempted.

I don't want to sour the memory of something sublime with a ratty exchange between us.

[thebish]

I'm really not going to hijack it any more. I just wanted to answer your question. In my mind was the memory of some beautiful music. I also apologised for the provocation at the same time, and, of course, i understand your response to it. I will avoid the polemic, however tempted.

I don't want to sour the memory of something sublime with a ratty exchange between us.

you may have wanted to - but you didn't actually answer my question. you surely cannot really believe that it is an enduring contradiction (beyond your understanding) that artists who belong to or are associated with an organisation that has done bad things are capable of great and inspiring art - can you??

(and - it's a bit late - you already chose to sour the sublime with something ratty in your initial post.)

[William the White]

I'm really not going to hijack it any more. I just wanted to answer your question. In my mind was the memory of some beautiful music. I also apologised for the provocation at the same time, and, of course, i understand your response to it. I will avoid the polemic, however tempted.

I don't want to sour the memory of something sublime with a ratty exchange between us.

you may have wanted to - but you didn't actually answer my question. you surely cannot really believe that it is an enduring contradiction (beyond your understanding) that artists who belong to or are associated with an organisation that has done bad things are capable of great and inspiring art - can you??

(and - it's a bit late - you already chose to sour the sublime with something ratty in your initial post.)

Oh dear - falling to temptation already.

Which part of my original post said anything was beyond my understanding?

[thebish]

I'm really not going to hijack it any more. I just wanted to answer your question. In my mind was the memory of some beautiful music. I also apologised for the provocation at the same time, and, of course, i understand your response to it. I will avoid the polemic, however tempted.

I don't want to sour the memory of something sublime with a ratty exchange between us.

you may have wanted to - but you didn't actually answer my question. you surely cannot really believe that it is an enduring contradiction (beyond your understanding) that artists who belong to or are associated with an organisation that has done bad things are capable of great and inspiring art - can you??

(and - it's a bit late - you already chose to sour the sublime with something ratty in your initial post.)

Oh dear - falling to temptation already.

Which part of my original post said anything was beyond my understanding?

my gloss - but describing something as an "enduring contradiction" surely indicates that you don't know how the two could go together - you can't explain it - which is at least very close to being beyond your understanding. but - my bad - you didn't say those actual words - I'll withdraw them!

so - this enduring contradiction - where exactly is it?

[William the White]

I'm really not going to hijack it any more. I just wanted to answer your question. In my mind was the memory of some beautiful music. I also apologised for the provocation at the same time, and, of course, i understand your response to it. I will avoid the polemic, however tempted.

I don't want to sour the memory of something sublime with a ratty exchange between us.

you may have wanted to - but you didn't actually answer my question. you surely cannot really believe that it is an enduring contradiction (beyond your understanding) that artists who belong to or are associated with an organisation that has done bad things are capable of great and inspiring art - can you??

(and - it's a bit late - you already chose to sour the sublime with something ratty in your initial post.)

Oh dear - falling to temptation already.

Which part of my original post said anything was beyond my understanding?

my gloss - but describing something as an "enduring contradiction" surely indicates that you don't know how the two could go together - you can't explain it - which is at least very close to being beyond your understanding. but - my bad - you didn't say those actual words - I'll withdraw them!

so - this enduring contradiction - where exactly is it?

start another thread and we can go at it if you wish.

i'm already embarrassed at the way we've diverted this one.

[truewhite15]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaanyway.

I've been to the flicks for the second time in a week tonight. This time to see Transformers #3. It's a decent film, with an extreme overuse of the slo-mo feature...

[Zulus Thousand of em]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaanyway.

I've been to the flicks for the second time in a week tonight. This time to see Transformers #3. It's a decent film, with an extreme overuse of the slo-mo feature...

I blame the Methodists.

Bastards!

[Lofthouse Lower]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaanyway.

I've been to the flicks for the second time in a week tonight. This time to see Transformers #3. It's a decent film, with an extreme overuse of the slo-mo feature...

I hated the whole thing. Absolutely rubbish

Loved Transformers as a nipper, but Michael Bay has pissed all over those memories, the wanker