Today I'm angry about.....

[William the White]

The free parking spaces at Townleys are easy to spot, they are infested with Merc's BMW'S huge 4x4's and the odd lexus, it's the consultants car park. Of course they could never catch the bus or bike it they have to dash off for their private consultancies!

Feck me, hobo tells it how it is...

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Telegraph...

Charges for parking while visiting family and friends who are in hospital will be scrapped within three years, Andy Burnham the Health Secretary has said. Mr Burnham announced that in-patients will be given a parking permit to last for the duration of their stay in hospital which they can give to family and friends to put in their car windscreens during visits.

Hospitals can earn up to around £2 million a year from charging for parking spaces and some commentators warned that scrapping the fees will hit the NHS at a time when budgets are being cut and £15 billion to £20 billion of savings are being demanded.

The move was welcomed by campaigners who have called the charges a 'tax on the sick' but they were disappointed that outpatients will still be charged.

so - if you want them to be scrapped - vote labour!

I see... so the charges have either originated or prevailed during Labour's ten years in office, but a promise made by the current Health Sec in the run-up to an election to scrap them (for in-patients only) within the next three years (a healthy way into the future, and certainly after any election) is a reason to vote Labour now?!

[Lord Kangana]

Clearly I'm a little late to the discussion, and perhaps this belongs in politics. But I'm a bit puzzled as to why making car parks that are already owned by the health authorities free( indeed were already owned before they started charging) would put the price of national insurance up? Maintenance of a car park is not exactly huge. Perhaps we could slice a bit off the budget for those god awful "spy on your foreign looking neighbours and remain afraid of the miniscule risk of terrorism, very afraid" adverts, and put it back into the NHS.

After all, has anyone done a cost/benefit analysis of terrorism vs lives lost in the NHS due to underfunding? I make the body count for the former about 56 on mainland Britain in the last decade. Wonder how many people die in hospital that could have been saved?

[Bruce Rioja]

I'm just tentatively presenting the side of the argument that says it's partly about reducing/managing the number of cars on hospital sites, as well as raising revenue.

And you're absolutely right to.

[Hoboh]

Today I'm beside myself with rage at yet another case that the bleeding heart liberals will jump up to defend,

THE BRITISH FRITZEL!!!

There is no evil in the world just poor misunderstood folk!! This is one sad case really sad, but hey ho take heart we can all share the burden of the cost of keeping this bloke on top of all the enquiries and picking up the pieces of what he's already done!

This country cannot get any lower can it?

Hobo's law it will work!

[Verbal]

you could just get the 501, like...though I'd imagine this argument re: car congestion can provide an argument for more major bus routes running down t'hospital way.

[Worthy4England]

At the risk of interjecting between two debating sides here, I thought we paid our income taxes and National Insurance to fund the health service?

Fine, but it's obvious that free parking would mean that either the taxes you mention would have to be increased, or the total amount spent on healthcare would have to be reduced. Neither is a particularly attractive option.


I suppose part of the argument is that there is a lot of excess demand for parking at hospitals, and charging for it might be one way of ensuring only those that truly need it use it. So, to go back to Jimmy's example - he was already struggling to find a space in a stressful situation... imagine how much worse that problem might be, if parking were free.

I had cause to visit Addenbrooke's hospital in Cambridge a few times because of a stress fracture of my left tibia. Now then, that place is an enormous, sprawling, mini city in its own right - it struck me the first time I went (while I was resenting paying for my parking) that they really have to do everything they can to discourage people from taking their cars there, because catering for everyone's parking needs was an enormous task. Next time I had a scan, I cycled. I appreciate that this is unlikely to be an option for many hospital visitors, but it weeded me out at least. Who knows how many others can get buses (to the hospital stop) or lifts etc.?

I believe (though I may be wrong) that the trend is increasingly towards bigger, 'super' hospitals and away from smaller ones, and I suppose this serves to make the problem worse?

I don't have a particular problem paying more in income tax/NI to ensure there's a decent Health Service. That said, there's places I'd look first to make economies. More Doctors and Nurses, less admin, NHS Trust Directors etc.

I'm with WtW on the general comment regarding inelastic demand. I drive when I have to go to Hope Hospital, because it's a couple of buses and an increase of about an hours travelling time. Time I can usefully spend earning money to pay more tax If I happened to be a patient and threrfore off work, other modes of transport might be considered.

As we move from many smaller local hospitals to fewer larger hospitals they tend to be father away. Making public transport a less likely option. I don't necessarily disagree with the specialism and "centre of excellence" type approach - i.e. Wythenshaw is recognised for heart problems, the Manchester Children's hospital is a conglomeration of some smaller establishments like Pendlebury Children's etc. The Christie for Cancer care etc. Fooked if I'm going to spend half my life getting to them by Public Transport - just isn't going to happen.

Cycling at your age may be an option Mummy, for many it isn't, but I bow to your green ethic, although the Tebbitism is quite funny.

[TANGODANCER]

I took a bus to Farnworth today. The 501 goess through the hospital grounds and across Plodder Lane. The car parks looked like a scene from Ford Dagenham car plant. The streets around Minerva Road are always full of cars nose-to tail. Add temporary traffic lights on Minerva Road to the equation and Car-World ain't in it. When they all fire up at home time the fumes must be wonderful. It's why I shook my head at the big red sign at the entrance to the hospital grounds: "This is a no-smoking site". Yeah, right.

[Worthy4England]

I'm just tentatively presenting the side of the argument that says it's partly about reducing/managing the number of cars on hospital sites, as well as raising revenue.

And you're absolutely right to.

You see if I honestly believed that was the prime motivation I might be tempted to listen to the argument, before saying no.

As I think that some higher principle other than raising more money, is actually just window dressing, sales blurb - blah, blah, I'll just stick with no.

[Hoboh]

I took a bus to Farnworth today. The 501 goess through the hospital grounds and across Plodder Lane. The car parks looked like a scene from Ford Dagenham car plant. The streets around Minerva Road are always full of cars nose-to tail. Add temporary traffic lights on Minerva Road to the equation and Car-World ain't in it. When they all fire up at home time the fumes must be wonderful. It's why I shook my head at the big red sign at the entrance to the hospital grounds: "This is a no-smoking site". Yeah, right.

I know that's another thing, If I was ill in there I'd bloody well need a ciggie or get really peed off!

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

I don't have a particular problem paying more in income tax/NI to ensure there's a decent Health Service. That said, there's places I'd look first to make economies. More Doctors and Nurses, less admin, NHS Trust Directors etc.

Sure, I agree with the sentiment - I don't think that all the 'extra investment' that this Government's representatives never tire of boasting of in terms of the amount of money spent has generated proportionate improvement in health services either.

Cycling at your age may be an option Mummy, for many it isn't, but I bow to your green ethic, although the Tebbitism is quite funny.

And I went out of my way to say that it was unlikely to be an option for many! I only mentioned it because it's what I happened to do, as a cycling student in a cycling students' city.

Funny that people should mention Tebbit, because his words were twisted too, if I recall, in that he didn't actually make any such "get on your bike" suggestion, but rather merely reported that that's what his father had done!

[Hoboh]

I don't have a particular problem paying more in income tax/NI to ensure there's a decent Health Service. That said, there's places I'd look first to make economies. More Doctors and Nurses, less admin, NHS Trust Directors etc.

Sure, I agree with the sentiment - I don't think that all the 'extra investment' that this Government's representatives never tire of boasting of in terms of the amount of money spent has generated proportionate improvement in health services either.

Cycling at your age may be an option Mummy, for many it isn't, but I bow to your green ethic, although the Tebbitism is quite funny.

And I went out of my way to say that it was unlikely to be an option for many! I only mentioned it because it's what I happened to do, as a cycling student in a cycling students' city.

Funny that people should mention Tebbit, because his words were twisted too, if I recall, in that he didn't actually make any such "get on your bike" suggestion, but rather merely reported that that's what his father had done!

There wern't as many cars about then!

[Lord Kangana]

Ah, so Tebbit was just a reactionary old loon who'd had one too many and decided to tell a story about his dad. Someone should have given him a nudge and reminded him he was at another one of those Nuremburg rallies and it was his turn on the mic.

[Bruce Rioja]

And anyway - my operation in January that got cancelled two days before? I'm still waiting, with roots poking through gum, for a new date. Glad I didn't leave the car there.

Night, chaps.

[Worthy4England]

I don't have a particular problem paying more in income tax/NI to ensure there's a decent Health Service. That said, there's places I'd look first to make economies. More Doctors and Nurses, less admin, NHS Trust Directors etc.

Sure, I agree with the sentiment - I don't think that all the 'extra investment' that this Government's representatives never tire of boasting of in terms of the amount of money spent has generated proportionate improvement in health services either.

Cycling at your age may be an option Mummy, for many it isn't, but I bow to your green ethic, although the Tebbitism is quite funny.

And I went out of my way to say that it was unlikely to be an option for many! I only mentioned it because it's what I happened to do, as a cycling student in a cycling students' city.

Funny that people should mention Tebbit, because his words were twisted too, if I recall, in that he didn't actually make any such "get on your bike" suggestion, but rather merely reported that that's what his father had done!

Do you recall? Can't have been very old in 1981...

Having listened to the speech, it certainly isn't funny nor strange, his intent was crystal clear. After decimating employment in certain areas of the country which was one factor attributed to the rioting at the time he pointed out that people shouldn't be rioting (as his father hadn't - he just got on his bike and found work). It was a case of "tough shit - no work near you, you go to the work" - the passage of time shouldn't detract from the fact that, that's exactly what he meant.

[Worthy4England]

Ah, so Tebbit was just a reactionary old loon who'd had one too many and decided to tell a story about his dad. Someone should have given him a nudge and reminded him he was at another one of those Nuremburg rallies and it was his turn on the mic.

It would seem to be the current suggestion.

I recall when he said it, thinking to myself it's pure Monty Python. "That's nowt, when I were a lad...."

Any thought that actually he was a completely unprincipled bastard must just be a figment of my imagination.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Do you recall? Can't have been very old in 1981...

Having listened to the speech, it certainly isn't funny nor strange, his intent was crystal clear. After decimating employment in certain areas of the country which was one factor attributed to the rioting at the time he pointed out that people shouldn't be rioting (as his father hadn't - he just got on his bike and found work). It was a case of "tough shit - no work near you, you go to the work" - the passage of time shouldn't detract from the fact that, that's exactly what he meant.

I'm familiar with the story, in the same way I'm familiar with the story of what Thatcher said when "there is no such thing as society" is all that is remembered.

Anyway, are you saying his actual message (which did not suggest any particular mode of transport) was unwise? How many people on this board have moved out of Bolton for reasons of employment?

[Lord Kangana]

As a driver of policy? F*ckin terrible. Thats why half the country is withering on the vine and the bottom corner is so full we're likely to tip up into the English channel.

[William the White]

I took a bus to Farnworth today. The 501 goess through the hospital grounds and across Plodder Lane. The car parks looked like a scene from Ford Dagenham car plant. The streets around Minerva Road are always full of cars nose-to tail. Add temporary traffic lights on Minerva Road to the equation and Car-World ain't in it. When they all fire up at home time the fumes must be wonderful. It's why I shook my head at the big red sign at the entrance to the hospital grounds: "This is a no-smoking site". Yeah, right.

I know that's another thing, If I was ill in there I'd bloody well need a ciggie or get really peed off!

William says... have another one hobo...

If hobo would like to know the loony leftie derivation of this, i'm happy to tell him...

[Hoboh]

I don't have a particular problem paying more in income tax/NI to ensure there's a decent Health Service. That said, there's places I'd look first to make economies. More Doctors and Nurses, less admin, NHS Trust Directors etc.

Sure, I agree with the sentiment - I don't think that all the 'extra investment' that this Government's representatives never tire of boasting of in terms of the amount of money spent has generated proportionate improvement in health services either.

Cycling at your age may be an option Mummy, for many it isn't, but I bow to your green ethic, although the Tebbitism is quite funny.

And I went out of my way to say that it was unlikely to be an option for many! I only mentioned it because it's what I happened to do, as a cycling student in a cycling students' city.

Funny that people should mention Tebbit, because his words were twisted too, if I recall, in that he didn't actually make any such "get on your bike" suggestion, but rather merely reported that that's what his father had done!

Do you recall? Can't have been very old in 1981...

Having listened to the speech, it certainly isn't funny nor strange, his intent was crystal clear. After decimating employment in certain areas of the country which was one factor attributed to the rioting at the time he pointed out that people shouldn't be rioting (as his father hadn't - he just got on his bike and found work). It was a case of "tough shit - no work near you, you go to the work" - the passage of time shouldn't detract from the fact that, that's exactly what he meant.

Ah can you explain what this "Social mobility" the lefties keep banging on about in their drive for education means then if not a posh way of saying "on your bike" please Mr Worthy?