Ken Anderson - Old Owner (Definitely. For Ever ..... )

[bristol_Wanderer3]

Questions : So, all in all, feasibly, only a massive injection of (foreign?) capital can save the club as everything is on a "can only get worse" scenario? See, if Ken is such an astute businessman, where and what did he visualise as our future when buying the club? Did he think ( or was lead to believe) that Dean Holdsworth was wealthier than he actually is? Did Holdsworth rely on someone else jumping in with him and pumping large amounts of money behind the club? Right now none of it makes too much sense...

It is hard to imagine why anyone without hundreds of millions to spare buys football clubs. Until the recent Premiership deal most had to run at a loss to compete. Possibly the owners do it for a mixture of ego, popularity, money laundering (in a few cases), emotional attachment, but most likely today the advantage of buying a club outside of the Prem is that if you can get it rolling in the right direction and get to the Prem, or look like you can get it to the Prem is that the club increases substantially in value. West Brom were rumoured to have been sold recently for £200m. They are a similar size to us....

[BWFC_Insane]

Ken's done another 'statement' not really controversial this time.

However this bit in it made me spit my coffee out all over my keyboard. Literally.

Unfortunately, the earlier press reported feud which I previously said did not exist a couple of months ago does now exist.

After a long week I cannot stop laughing at this.

[bristol_Wanderer3]

Ken's done another 'statement' not really controversial this time.

However this bit in it made me spit my coffee out all over my keyboard. Literally.

Unfortunately, the earlier press reported feud which I previously said did not exist a couple of months ago does now exist.

After a long week I cannot stop laughing at this.

Laurel and Hardy...

[BWFC_Insane]

Ken's done another 'statement' not really controversial this time.

However this bit in it made me spit my coffee out all over my keyboard. Literally.

Unfortunately, the earlier press reported feud which I previously said did not exist a couple of months ago does now exist.

After a long week I cannot stop laughing at this.

Laurel and Hardy...

More like some Yes Minister shit.....

[Worthy4England]

Relting to our debt as a similar topic and not sure how this works out, but I'm reading in today's Sun that Man United owe £409,mil. This is, it seems, related in some way to the pound collapsing following the Brexit vote? What's that all about then?

Always knew Brexit was a great steer.

Manchester United are quoted on the New York Stock Exchange - so assume they've been hit by the fall in Sterling against the ($).

In terms of how much the number is, it's not actually important, until the point in time you can't cover it.

Sadly we are talking about a whole different level. There are a few football finance documents out there (not able to link just now, but google is your friend) that show Man U have a turnover of approx £500m, operating profits, even after servicing debts, of approx £100m, a wage bill of less than 50% of turnover, despite paying Ibrahimovic close to £300kpw, and a few other in excess of £200kpw. If they were to be available for sale they would be valued at north of £1.5bn. In that context £400m of debt looks entirely manageable.

Like many areas of life, in football the rich have got richer. A number of our top clubs turnover over £300m. Our accounts show in the championship we had turnover of £30m, and (I think) wage bill (or was it total expenses? of £29m. Projected losses of over £11m per year going forward. Suddenly any level of debt looks unmanageable, let alone the £15m that is in theory due very soon that we are carrying.

What £15m?

[Tombwfc]

To be fair to the ST (who represent 6,000 Bolton fans and have to make some kind of statement), and them asking for preferred bidder status last time - they obviously don't and never will have the kind of money required to save us, but then have Sports Shield (who were granted that status) done anything to date that they couldn't have done? Get a massive a payday loan - find a business partner - have that deal fall through at the last minute - find a new business partner - buy the club - immediately fall out with new business partner - lose control of the day to day running of the club - start squabbling on the internet. Is it impossible to think we wouldn't be any worse off?

Incidentally, do the accounts (or any of his various statements) state what the maximum Ken has lent the club any one point?

Lent, £3.5m. Paid back a 0% interest £3.5m. Administration Fees etc. if any, unknown.

Cheers Worthy. That's the total, no? I was wondering if there was any further breakdown than that - I've seen it assumed in various places that Ken is a safer horse to back because Deano hasn't got a pot to piss in, but does Ken? If he's got £3.5m to put in as a lump sum, then that would suggest he does, even if he took it out at a later date. If he's putting in and taking out £500k to tide us over at the end of every month, then perhaps not.

[Worthy4England]

Ken's done another 'statement' not really controversial this time.

However this bit in it made me spit my coffee out all over my keyboard. Literally.

Unfortunately, the earlier press reported feud which I previously said did not exist a couple of months ago does now exist.

After a long week I cannot stop laughing at this.

Laurel and Hardy...

More like some Yes Minister shit.....

Actually, I was drawn to the "two free agents" we're hoping to bring in...

[Worthy4England]

To be fair to the ST (who represent 6,000 Bolton fans and have to make some kind of statement), and them asking for preferred bidder status last time - they obviously don't and never will have the kind of money required to save us, but then have Sports Shield (who were granted that status) done anything to date that they couldn't have done? Get a massive a payday loan - find a business partner - have that deal fall through at the last minute - find a new business partner - buy the club - immediately fall out with new business partner - lose control of the day to day running of the club - start squabbling on the internet. Is it impossible to think we wouldn't be any worse off?

Incidentally, do the accounts (or any of his various statements) state what the maximum Ken has lent the club any one point?

Lent, £3.5m. Paid back a 0% interest £3.5m. Administration Fees etc. if any, unknown.

Cheers Worthy. That's the total, no? I was wondering if there was any further breakdown than that - I've seen it assumed in various places that Ken is a safer horse to back because Deano hasn't got a pot to piss in, but does Ken? If he's got £3.5m to put in as a lump sum, then that would suggest he does, even if he took it out at a later date. If he's putting in and taking out £500k to tide us over at the end of every month, then perhaps not.

I'm fairly certain KA is far from skint, looking at his gaff in Switzerland.

The money might not be directly his, from his own current account and as I mention whilst it's at zero interest, it is possible that it has an "arrangement fee", "administration fee" etc. that could be significant or could be zero - we just don't know.

He's also on the record that he's not drawing a salary, so clearly has money from elsewhere. Then again, his missus might be drawing 2 times what we'd expect covering his shortfall - who knows.

I don't have the same warm glowing feeling about him as some might, but can't point exactly to why at the moment.

[Tombwfc]

Ken's done another 'statement' not really controversial this time.

However this bit in it made me spit my coffee out all over my keyboard. Literally.

Unfortunately, the earlier press reported feud which I previously said did not exist a couple of months ago does now exist.

After a long week I cannot stop laughing at this.

When myself & Steve Parkin first met Ken he was very honest & said there was a problem between him & Dean which needed resolving

[bristol_Wanderer3]

What £15m?

From the accounts:

£5.5m owed to PBP (due 29/1/2017)
£0.5m owed to WfB Warburton (due 1/3/2018)
£1.55m owed to Fildraw Private Trust (due 1/3/2018)
£4m plus accrued interest owed to Sports Shield (due 1/3/2018), which arises from the £5m lent from Blumarble to Sports Shield (due 26/3/2016). Blumarble have an option against our assets to recover this money. With the reported pay day loan rates I am guessing at around £7.5m debt??

Of course the numerous small debts owed to smaller contractors such as Heathcote's aren't directly mentioned in the accounts as far as I can see...

[Worthy4England]

Oh I C.

The Heatcote's stuff probably wasn't a debt at the time of the Accounts.

There's more debt than those key elements called out. Wouldn't surprise me if we weren't still north of £30m.

[bristol_Wanderer3]

Oh I C.

The Heatcote's stuff probably wasn't a debt at the time of the Accounts.

There's more debt than those key elements called out. Wouldn't surprise me if we weren't still north of £30m.

Yeah I was referring to short term debt, but the analysis of net debt section in the accounts reports £17.7m due within one year, plus £3.8m overdraft...

Pick any figure between £15m and £30m, when you have fundamentals like ours, it isn't viable.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

Am I right in thinking that Ken has put 3.5m in and taken 3.5m out, meaning a net spend of zero? Deano has put in the Blu Marble loan of 5m and taken 1.5m out (to pay BM installments? If so that would mean Deano has put net 3.5m in and Ken Nowt? In that scenario I can see why Deano might be reluctant to chuck more in until Ken does. Or have I got this wrong?

[TANGODANCER]

Am I right in thinking that Ken has put 3.5m in and taken 3.5m out, meaning a net spend of zero? Deano has put in the Blu Marble loan of 5m and taken 1.5m out (to pay BM installments? If so that would mean Deano has put net 3.5m in and Ken Nowt? In that scenario I can see why Deano might be reluctant to chuck more in until Ken does. Or have I got this wrong?

All sounds a bit financial Hokey-cokey put like that A.T.

[BWFC_Insane]

Am I right in thinking that Ken has put 3.5m in and taken 3.5m out, meaning a net spend of zero? Deano has put in the Blu Marble loan of 5m and taken 1.5m out (to pay BM installments? If so that would mean Deano has put net 3.5m in and Ken Nowt? In that scenario I can see why Deano might be reluctant to chuck more in until Ken does. Or have I got this wrong?

Dean borrowed 5m for sports shield from Blumarble. He secured that against club assets. He gave 4M of that to the club.

But he hasn't been making the repayments to Blumarble. So the accounts he signed off say anyhow.

Edit: Dean H also took a £250K from the club for something unknown....

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

Am I right in thinking that Ken has put 3.5m in and taken 3.5m out, meaning a net spend of zero? Deano has put in the Blu Marble loan of 5m and taken 1.5m out (to pay BM installments? If so that would mean Deano has put net 3.5m in and Ken Nowt? In that scenario I can see why Deano might be reluctant to chuck more in until Ken does. Or have I got this wrong?

Dean borrowed 5m for sports shield from Blumarble. He secured that against club assets. He gave 4M of that to the club.

But he hasn't been making the repayments to Blumarble. So the accounts he signed off say anyhow.

Edit: Dean H also took a £250K from the club for something unknown....

So Dean has put money in. I know he isn't paying the loan off but he has actually put money in whereas Ken hasn't left any in. Not saying Dean is blameless in all this, but it strikes me that Ken is playing games.

[Whookam]

Wait... KA puts several sums of money into the club which he subsequently recovers at 0% (less arrangement fees etc.). Apparently this means he has 'put nothing into the club'.

DH saddles BW with a £4 million debt, which is overdue and accruing massive interest, and that means he's 'put something into the club'?

[malcd1]

Am I right in thinking that Ken has put 3.5m in and taken 3.5m out, meaning a net spend of zero? Deano has put in the Blu Marble loan of 5m and taken 1.5m out (to pay BM installments? If so that would mean Deano has put net 3.5m in and Ken Nowt? In that scenario I can see why Deano might be reluctant to chuck more in until Ken does. Or have I got this wrong?

Dean borrowed 5m for sports shield from Blumarble. He secured that against club assets. He gave 4M of that to the club.

But he hasn't been making the repayments to Blumarble. So the accounts he signed off say anyhow.

Edit: Dean H also took a £250K from the club for something unknown....

So Dean has put money in. I know he isn't paying the loan off but he has actually put money in whereas Ken hasn't left any in. Not saying Dean is blameless in all this, but it strikes me that Ken is playing games.

I thought Dean hadn't put any money in. He took a loan out for the club and secured against assets from the club. Did Ken do something similar as I thought he mentioned that a while ago because he was suggesting the other loan was at much better terms? I might have made that bit up but surely they needed to put a similar amount in?

Anyway it is a mess and now getting nasty. Washing dirty linen in public is not the way to resolve the problems.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

Wait... KA puts several sums of money into the club which he subsequently recovers at 0% (less arrangement fees etc.). Apparently this means he has 'put nothing into the club'.

DH saddles BW with a £4 million debt, which is overdue and accruing massive interest, and that means he's 'put something into the club'?

My understanding is the loan is to Circle or whatever he calls his company and the loan is secured against club assets. It's Deano's loan, but the problem of the club. So however you look at it, Deano has put money, albeit not his own, Ken has put money in but recovered it all. Therefore, at least in my mind, Deano has put money in that the club has used to run on/survive. Ken has effectively sold Holding and Clough which presumably has enabled him to recover any investment. To date, interest he might have earned on 3.5m aside, he hasn't invested a penny into the club, whether his own or a backers money.

[Peter Thompson]

Wait... KA puts several sums of money into the club which he subsequently recovers at 0% (less arrangement fees etc.). Apparently this means he has 'put nothing into the club'.

DH saddles BW with a £4 million debt, which is overdue and accruing massive interest, and that means he's 'put something into the club'?

Totally agree with Whookam....I can't understand what AT is on about - DH has put nothing whatsoever into the club out of his own pocket and has actually kept £1M of the £5M loan at 24% interest (secured against club assets) and has also taken £250k in salaries etc....for doing absolutely nothing

As I said the other day, so instead of KA providing £3.5M of interest free loans and taking nothing back as a salary, I assume AT would have preferred KA to have borrowed £5M from QuickQuid at 24% interest, against club assets and to be paid back by the club instead of himself and kept a £1M of the loan for himself

Madness....