SUN Editor : "We Were Right About Hillsborough"

[blurred]

Not being sarky or owt blurred, wanting an honest answer - do you think Scousers will ever be able to let it go?

I think it depends on the individual. There'll always be the remembrance of the 96 and I don't think that'll ever go away. There's an annual remembrance service at Anfield on April 15th, when the club open up the Kop and all the players and staff attend. And when we move ground the HSFG will be consulted about an appropriate handling of the Hillsborough memorial (currently outside the Anfield Road stand), and the families are definitely consulted on these sorts of things by the club, which is only right and proper.

If you compare the Sun to other papers, yes, there were others that ran with these stories in the aftermath of Hillsborough (The Daily Star for one), who then subsequently retracted them almost immediately. The Sun never did this, and when the then editor continues to spout off bullshit like MacKenzie did the other day, I think that the majority of fans will find it hard to forgive or forget, especially when 'The Truth' is still making front page news 17 years on.

The closest they came to an apology was when there was a big hoo-ha about Rooney signing a deal with them a couple of years ago (not the best PR move by a scouser, but anyway...) and that 'apology' was just a token gesture in their efforts to sell more papers on the back of Rooney. I don't think that many people accepted it. In those terms I don't think that many will ever properly forgive the Sun, and sales on Merseyside will be forever low.

As for the Police? There's been a great deal less movement in terms of the 'campaign for justice' in recent years. Ann Williams is constantly trying her heart out, but there aren't many legal avenues left to explore to be honest, and I don't think that there will ever be a judgement made against Duckenfield or the police in general. The movement, such as it is, is quite disparate and without a coherent approach I'd argue it's doomed to failure. It's notoriously difficult to get a conviction against the police anyway, never mind almost 20 years after the fact. The thing that sticks in a lot of scousers' minds is not only that they were never made to stand trial for their culpability, but that many of these police were pensioned off after suffering PTSD.

Will it be let go? Probably not. But year on year the prominence of 'Justice' chants and campaigns is getting less and less. Personally I'll never buy the Sun again (not least because it's a shit newspaper) and I'm far from being the most vitriolic Liverpool fan on this issue. I genuinely believe that some people will celebrate when MacKenzie and Duckenfield finally pop their clogs.

[Lennon]

Who gives a toss about Hillsborough on a Bolton board anyway?

[Batman]

In a good mood then eh Lennon.

[Montreal Wanderer]

In a good mood then eh Lennon.

I think he was just supporting Brownie

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Two points (for what they are worth)

1. I have been an avid reader of Private Eye for many years (as others, I am sure). I believe most of what I read in there. Kelvin McKenzie's press (concerning Hillsborough, the treatment of his staff, and countless other issues) has been such that, if I saw him on fire, I would not piss on him. Let's not try and turn him into some evangelical campaigning journalist on here, eh?

2. South Yorkshire Police failed miserably in their duty of care to the public on that day. They then compounded their crimes by trying to cover up their inaction. And I am not anti-police.

Probably the best post on this thread because it's so simple and doesn't try to go over the top with anything.

I know about the events that day obviously, one of my dad's friends never returned and my dad has struggled to go to football games ever since. It's not nice talking about it at any point, let alone when some gobshite like MacKenzie continues to spout his rubbish.

Agreed and to be honest I'm totally appalled that people posting on a football forum hold views like MummywhycantIeatcrayons. Anyone going to football in the 1980s could have been caught up in something like Hillsboro. There but for the grace of God/whoever/whatever.

Care to summarise what it is about my views you find so appalling?

I'll have a quick go at a summary for you:

1.) The Sun printed an insensitive and very slanted story. Whether MacKenzie actually printed complete fabrications is only something he knows, and can't really be proven. Whatever the truth of the matter, it was 17 years ago and the entire senior team has been replaced, so it might be time to move on from indoctrinating every new generation of Liverpool fans with a sense of injustice that has a quasi-religious force.

2.) The South Yorkshire Police made a series of cock ups and should have handled an unruly crowd better. However, to paint the Liverpool away following as being blameless in the whole episode is to be to unrealistic, as is treating any suggestion to the contrary as showing a lack of respect for those who tragically died.

[Batman]

Here we go.

[americantrotter]

You started it.

[Zulus Thousand of em]

I think you're whistling up your arse on this one, Mummy. You're perfectly entitled to your opinion though.

[blurred]

1.) The Sun printed an insensitive and very slanted story. Whether MacKenzie actually printed complete fabrications is only something he knows, and can't really be proven. Whatever the truth of the matter, it was 17 years ago and the entire senior team has been replaced, so it might be time to move on from indoctrinating every new generation of Liverpool fans with a sense of injustice that has a quasi-religious force.

It might be, and there will be those that have, but if the majority (or even a very vocal minority) have decided not to, then who are you to tell them it's time to move on and forget what happened to their friends and families and what was said about them. It's very easy for people to say that from the outside (especially as it affords them the opportunity to do a bit of scouser-bashing), but as my post above says, I hope you never have to face the same situation, because it won't be as easy to be forgiving I'm sure.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

1.) The Sun printed an insensitive and very slanted story. Whether MacKenzie actually printed complete fabrications is only something he knows, and can't really be proven. Whatever the truth of the matter, it was 17 years ago and the entire senior team has been replaced, so it might be time to move on from indoctrinating every new generation of Liverpool fans with a sense of injustice that has a quasi-religious force.

It might be, and there will be those that have, but if the majority (or even a very vocal minority) have decided not to, then who are you to tell them it's time to move on and forget what happened to their friends and families and what was said about them. It's very easy for people to say that from the outside (especially as it affords them the opportunity to do a bit of scouser-bashing), but as my post above says, I hope you never have to face the same situation, because it won't be as easy to be forgiving I'm sure.

I'm not saying that forgiveness from those involved is really on the cards, but this 'educating' of people who couldn't really care less/are too young to remember is just typical scouse bollocks.

No more whistling up my arse, whatever that means.

[sluffy]

Take it from me who has lost loved ones - but not in such tragic circumstances - that everybody seems to have their own way of coping with their loss.

I am guessing that the tragedies such as Hillsborough affect the community as well as the individuals directly connected to the bereaved and thus it is harder for wrongs to be forgotten and for people to move on.

The Munich tragedy is still part of the United culture even though it happened nearly 50 years ago.

What happened and what was printed in the Sun at the time cannot be changed. It no longer matters what the truth was - as whatever it was can not help anyone after all this time.

Maybe it's best to let those still in mourning alone - and let them 'move on' in their own good time.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Maybe it's best to let those still in mourning alone - and let them 'move on' in their own good time.

What about those who have no personal connection to a single person at the ground that day?

[blurred]

Maybe it's best to let those still in mourning alone - and let them 'move on' in their own good time.

What about those who have no personal connection to a single person at the ground that day?

What about those who didn't have a grandad or uncle killed in the war - you gonna tell 'em not to wear a poppy? Are you f*ck.

Excuse the hyperbole, and I'm of course not likening the loss of the wars to that at Hillsborough, but it's still a cause that affects a large scale community. Pretty much everyone who is a Liverpool fan (by which I mean a matchgoing fan) will know or have met or have had dealings with someone who was there or directly affected by it. I know plenty, some of whom have become close friends, and several of whom still have trouble facing and dealing with some aspects of it to this day. If I choose to support their method of remembrance then that's my decision, which I'll reach after the 'education' I've received by reading up on the subject. I'm not as militant as some, naturally, but I'll support their boycott of the Sun and attend the memorial service as and when I can.

[blurred]

just typical scouse bollocks

Care to explain what you mean by that? And how it differs from typical cockney bollocks, perhaps, or typical manc bollocks? Is a sense of communal collective action not allowed by your sensibilities, perhaps? Or is it just nice to scouse-bash being from the peninsula?

[sluffy]

Maybe it's best to let those still in mourning alone - and let them 'move on' in their own good time.

What about those who have no personal connection to a single person at the ground that day?

Well - imo - it is the community that is grieving. Similar to how the United fans still feel about Munich - even though 99% of the fans have no direct (or even indirect) link to the tragedy.

One man may be able to forgive and forget - but not a whole community.

Nothing anyone can say now will make any difference - so maybe on this occasion - again in my opinion - the less said the better.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Ok.