The breaking News thread...

[Lord Kangana]

I can only guess from the comments made that not many people have actually ever dealt with an insolvency practitioner.

Particularly tickled by the word "ethics". That'll be a county to the east of London to most of them.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Yes I can. Listen. Trevor Birch is an Insolvency Practitioner. His present job is based on that fact. He works to a code of ethics. In that code, right at the very beginning is a statement of Fundamental Principles which are outlined in section 400.4 and I quote
b) Objectivity
An Insolvency practitioner should not allow bias, conflict of interest or undue influence of others to override professional or business judgements.

Not to add more fuel to the fire (I think Birch is doing a decent job FWIW) but is he actually here in that respect though? I was under the belief that he was here only to oversee a sale of the club with PG's illness. Admittedly his remit may have changed, what with selling more of the car park and the winding up order, but is he actually here as an insolvency practitioner? Weren't the club absolutely adamant in our hearing that we weren't insolvent, in which case it's a little bit paradoxical? I was under the belief that part of the reason the winding up order was delayed is because we weren't insolvent.

To clarify, I mean he's a member of a professional group who have a code of ethics. The current job he has is related to that membership. he wasn't approached by Eddie Davies because he was a mate of his, he was appointed because he is the number one man in this particular field: financial difficulties of troubled football clubs - he is a chartered accountant and insolvency practitioner who specialises in trying to sort out the monetary mess that football clubs and their directors get into. The fact he is negotiating a sale on behalf of Eddie Davies does not invalidate the code of ethics that he operates on in his working life. I hope that clears up what misunderstanding I may have given you.

[BWFC_Insane]

No. I'm saying that he works for Eddie. He may be working in the best interests of the club but equally may not be. Very much depends what Eddie is up to.

And I've told you that that is bollox.

Unless you know what Eddie wants and what the plan is, and you don't, then you cannot possibly know that either way.

Yes I can. Listen. Trevor Birch is an Insolvency Practitioner. His present job is based on that fact. He works to a code of ethics. In that code, right at the very beginning is a statement of Fundamental Principles which are outlined in section 400.4 and I quote
b) Objectivity
An Insolvency practitioner should not allow bias, conflict of interest or undue influence of others to override professional or business judgements.

He hasn't been appointed as an insolvency practitioner. He's been appointed as an advisor. We aren't in administration.

[BWFC_Insane]

No. I'm saying that he works for Eddie. He may be working in the best interests of the club but equally may not be. Very much depends what Eddie is up to.

And I've told you that that is bollox.

Unless you know what Eddie wants and what the plan is, and you don't, then you cannot possibly know that either way.

So, you honestly think that there's a possibility that he's been given a mandate by ED to work against the best interests of the club?

His mandate may well be to protect Eddie's interests. Which may not align entirely to the best interests of the football club.

[BWFC_Insane]

I'm fairly convinced he's working for ED. But the point is, knowing his mandate (determined by ED) and who his employer is (ED), he has allegedly according to the reports, presented a deal to the Board that I assume he feels was capable of proceeding with - otherwise he wouldn't be wasting his time. If that's the case (so you believe the story), then it's a tough call to criticise him for not doing what he's been set to do.

Agreed. Not saying he hasn't done his job. Just that unless you are sure Eddie is doing what is right for the club then Birch's role and what he is trying to achieve is a big unknown at this moment in time.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

No. I'm saying that he works for Eddie. He may be working in the best interests of the club but equally may not be. Very much depends what Eddie is up to.

And I've told you that that is bollox.

Unless you know what Eddie wants and what the plan is, and you don't, then you cannot possibly know that either way.

So, you honestly think that there's a possibility that he's been given a mandate by ED to work against the best interests of the club?

His mandate may well be to protect Eddie's interests. Which may not align entirely to the best interests of the football club.

Unless you know what Eddie wants and what the plan is, and you don't, then you cannot possibly know that either way.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

I can only guess from the comments made that not many people have actually ever dealt with an insolvency practitioner.

Particularly tickled by the word "ethics". That'll be a county to the east of London to most of them.

You appear to have had a personal run in with an insolvency practitioner. I haven't. However, even if the one that you are on about isn't the only dodgy fxcker in town it doesn't mean that they all are, and yes there is a code of ethics and professional disbarment if they break that code. Cynicism is healthy but can only go so far.
As for Trevor Birch himself, and his professional life, the merest brief perusal using that wonderful tool of advanced humanity (tinternet) will show that he is the number one man in his field i.e, his specialism, and that he has garnered praise for his integrity and the various rescue acts he has attempted or pulled off. I don't think he'd do anything drastic to sully that reputation either by do dodgy financial stuff or acting in ED's interests and not the clubs. Just my opinion mind, but it's a strongly held one. (No, I'm not related to him, and he hasn't paid me. I've never met him).

[Lost Leopard Spot]

No. I'm saying that he works for Eddie. He may be working in the best interests of the club but equally may not be. Very much depends what Eddie is up to.

And I've told you that that is bollox.

Unless you know what Eddie wants and what the plan is, and you don't, then you cannot possibly know that either way.

Yes I can. Listen. Trevor Birch is an Insolvency Practitioner. His present job is based on that fact. He works to a code of ethics. In that code, right at the very beginning is a statement of Fundamental Principles which are outlined in section 400.4 and I quote
b) Objectivity
An Insolvency practitioner should not allow bias, conflict of interest or undue influence of others to override professional or business judgements.

He hasn't been appointed as an insolvency practitioner. He's been appointed as an advisor. We aren't in administration.

See my answer to throwawayboltonian. What you've just typed makes not an iota of difference.

[Beefheart]

Dunno if it's been mentioned, but Shola Ameobi has apparently offered to play for us for nowt, only he can't re-sign because of the transfer embargo.

[BWFC_Insane]

Also if we take what is reported...

The club has a shotfall in finance required to get through till the end of the season (£6M now after car park sale).

Supposedly at least one interested party has put this money on the table.

Eddie Davies isn't at this moment in time prepared to give the club anymore money.

Therefore to me IF what has been reported is true the best interests of the club are to sell to the party who has put the money down. Simply because that has to be better for the health of the club than selling off more assets (at a knock down price) and prolonging the mess.

Were Eddie to decide to fund the shortfall then things might be different. But IF that position hasn't changed then it is quite clear that selling to ANYONE prepared to finance the gap is preferable to the other scenario.

[thebish]

it depends which insano post you read...

some appear to suggest very strongly that he is, indeed, suspicious - nay - sure that ED and his lackey (Birch) are not acting in the best interests of the club (and to be fair - insano did declare that he trusted nixon more than birch very early on...)

but in other posts he says we have no way at all of knowing that... (as DSB keeps reminding us!)


we could have saved MANY pages by simply declaring... "we don't really know what exactly is going on."

[Lord Kangana]

I haven't. However, even if the one that you are on about isn't the only dodgy fxcker in town it doesn't mean that they all are, .

I wish it were only one. The code of ethics you refer to can have a coach and horses run through it, reverse and flatten it for good measure for all the worth it has.

And its not a view solely shared by a minority of myself. I recall our legal team having a laugh about my use of the word 'parasitic' during meetings. They suggested I maybe use 'symbiotic' as we were being minuted. They were well versed in insolvency practitioners (note the plural) and had not a good word to say about them. Indeed, their view was rather less favourable than mine.

[thebish]

I wish it were only one. The code of ethics you refer to can have a coach and horses run through it, reverse and flatten it for good measure for all the worth it has.

therein lies your flaw! coaches and horses don't DO reversing!

it'll be reet!

[Lost Leopard Spot]

To clarify, I mean he's a member of a professional group who have a code of ethics. The current job he has is related to that membership. he wasn't approached by Eddie Davies because he was a mate of his, he was appointed because he is the number one man in this particular field: financial difficulties of troubled football clubs - he is a chartered accountant and insolvency practitioner who specialises in trying to sort out the monetary mess that football clubs and their directors get into. The fact he is negotiating a sale on behalf of Eddie Davies does not invalidate the code of ethics that he operates on in his working life. I hope that clears up what misunderstanding I may have given you.

Ah right, cheers for the clarification!

In that case to play devil's advocate I can see why Insano is suspicious - appointed and bankrolled personally by ED, and given that it's not officially an insolvency role he's not technically bound by his code of ethics (ignoring morality); ED's recent actions cast a questionable light on his benevolent appearance and whether he just wants as much money from the sale as possible; Birch's actual role is fairly unclear; the seemingly moving goalposts of the terms of sale; and the apparently ridiculous initial terms set out by ED/Birch.

As said I think he's acting in the club's best interests and do agree with you, especially given what the Portsmouth fans said about him during their sale, but objectively I can see why people are suspicious of the situation and his role.

He's a member of a professional body, and therefore whilst a member of that body whatever his job title and mandate may be, he is bound by his code of ethics.
I'll repeat what I posted in answer to LK too, "As for Trevor Birch himself, and his professional life, the merest brief perusal using that wonderful tool of advanced humanity (tinternet) will show that he is the number one man in his field i.e, his specialism, and that he has garnered praise for his integrity and the various rescue acts he has attempted or pulled off. I don't think he'd do anything drastic to sully that reputation either by do dodgy financial stuff or acting in ED's interests and not the clubs. Just my opinion mind, but it's a strongly held one."
I too can see why people might be a tad suspicious of him, but those are suspicions are engendered by a caricature of what he might be, and I can't see anything he's done or said that in any way would uphold the underlying grounds for those, probably paranoid, suspicions.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

I'm not sure why you would think any of the consortiums would drop their pants in order to allow themselves to be bent over and screwed by the competition. Bit naive don't you think?

no flies on you

You suggested it.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Dunno if it's been mentioned, but Shola Ameobi has apparently offered to play for us for nowt, only he can't re-sign because of the transfer embargo.

Wow, if true, he's a stand up guy who's putting passion for the game first. It's easy to be cynical and say clubs aren't going to be lining up to sign him, but that's a really professional gesture. Although technically shouldn't that be in the transfer thread?

Thanks, any publicity for the struggling transfer thread, gratefully received.

[Worthy4England]

I'm fairly convinced he's working for ED. But the point is, knowing his mandate (determined by ED) and who his employer is (ED), he has allegedly according to the reports, presented a deal to the Board that I assume he feels was capable of proceeding with - otherwise he wouldn't be wasting his time. If that's the case (so you believe the story), then it's a tough call to criticise him for not doing what he's been set to do.

Agreed. Not saying he hasn't done his job. Just that unless you are sure Eddie is doing what is right for the club then Birch's role and what he is trying to achieve is a big unknown at this moment in time.

Which makes it really difficult to comment on, as you have been doing, surely? If it's a big unknown, how are you deriving your conclusions that it is or isn't in the best interests of the Club rather than the best interests of Eddie? That's the point I'm making...

[jonnycooper]

Dunno if it's been mentioned, but Shola Ameobi has apparently offered to play for us for nowt, only he can't re-sign because of the transfer embargo.

I thought we would be allowed to add a out of contract player,where no fees are involved,maybe I don't quite understand these embargo,s

[StaffsTrotter]

I'm not sure why you would think any of the consortiums would drop their pants in order to allow themselves to be bent over and screwed by the competition. Bit naive don't you think?

no flies on you

You suggested it.

my naive reference was related any expectation that details of the commercial negotation be made public. Iles (and others) seem to be castigating the club for not being open about their position in those - moving goalposts etc etc. Yet he doesnt ask the same question of the consortia (who quite rightly would tell him to do one). But rather than write a story that says 'consortium unwilling to reveal plans' or 'consortium wants cake with cherry on top' he chooses to run with a bit of tittle tattle about SS/ ED is difficult, as though SS are the good guys/ wronged party. Repeating myself they may turn out to be, I dont know and I bet Iles doesnt either

[thebish]

I'm not sure why you would think any of the consortiums would drop their pants in order to allow themselves to be bent over and screwed by the competition. Bit naive don't you think?

no flies on you

You suggested it.

my naive reference was related any expectation that details of the commercial negotation be made public. Iles (and others) seem to be castigating the club for not being open about their position in those - moving goalposts etc etc. Yet he doesnt ask the same question of the consortia (who quite rightly would tell him to do one). But rather than write a story that says 'consortium unwilling to reveal plans' or 'consortium wants cake with cherry on top' he chooses to run with a bit of tittle tattle about SS/ ED is difficult, as though SS are the good guys/ wronged party. Repeating myself they may turn out to be, I dont know and I bet Iles doesnt either

indeed - this seems like a very sensible assessment of the situation.