Today I'm happy about......

[thebish]

I'm going to stop smoking pork chops as a result of this. No doubt about that.

Whenever I try cooking pork chops one has to inhale them prior to extinguishing them.

ahh yes - and wasn't there a big fuss last year about BBQs and burnt meat giving a cancer risk? WW is onto something...

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

600,000 people every year die from diseases caused by second hand smoke. So it's not completely irrelevant.

I'm interested to know how this is determined as incontrovertible fact?

the widely quoted figure comes from a 2010 study published in the Lancet in early 2011 - "Worldwide burden of disease from exposure to second-hand smoke: a retrospective analysis of data from 192 countries"

(Mattias Öberg PhD, Prof Maritta S Jaakkola PhD, Prof Alistair Woodward PhD, Armando Peruga DrPH, Dr Annette Prüss-Ustün PhD)

the conclusions were as follows:

Worldwide, 40% of children, 33% of male non-smokers, and 35% of female non-smokers were exposed to second-hand smoke in 2004. This exposure was estimated to have caused 379 000 deaths from ischaemic heart disease, 165 000 from lower respiratory infections, 36 900 from asthma, and 21 400 from lung cancer. 603 000 deaths were attributable to second-hand smoke in 2004, which was about 1·0% of worldwide mortality. 47% of deaths from second-hand smoke occurred in women, 28% in children, and 26% in men. DALYs lost because of exposure to second-hand smoke amounted to 10·9 million, which was about 0·7% of total worldwide burden of diseases in DALYs in 2004. 61% of DALYs were in children. The largest disease burdens were from lower respiratory infections in children younger than 5 years (5 939 000), ischaemic heart disease in adults (2 836 000), and asthma in adults (1 246 000) and children (651 000).

NB: The disability-adjusted life year (DALY) is a measure of overall disease burden, expressed as the number of years lost due to ill-health, disability or early death.

whether you count that as incontrovertible fact or not is a matter of personal judgement - not MANY things are incontrovertible facts, are they? but that's where BWFCi's figure (rounded down!) comes from...

I suppose I was heading in the direction of it is an estimation based upon lots of suppositions that are not necessarily based in fact. A bit like when they estimate the cost of things like the Olympics and Wembley. Also a bit like the Olympics legacy - they rarely get these estimates even remotely close. I don't doubt that smoke filled rooms has a large effect, but there are so many contributing factors (many not even known), that we risk banning everything.

[Bruce Rioja]

I'm going to stop smoking pork chops as a result of this. No doubt about that.

Whenever I try cooking pork chops one has to inhale them prior to extinguishing them.

ahh yes - and wasn't there a big fuss last year about BBQs and burnt meat giving a cancer risk? WW is onto something...

Seriously, for many years I've believed to carbon element of burned food to be a likely carcinogen, though I'm not sure that anyone's ever produced actual conclusive findings one way or t'other.

[TANGODANCER]

there are so many contributing factors (many not even known), that we risk banning everything.

That's it, AT. New campaign.."The Key to safe living, ban everything!"

[Lord Kangana]

The scrapings off burnt toast set off a Geiger Counter, don't you know? (I'm being serious, by the way).

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

there are so many contributing factors (many not even known), that we risk banning everything.

That's it, AT. New campaign.."The Key to safe living, ban everything!"

Ban breathing is probably safest. What with methane, car fumes, chemicals, smokers and burnt toast all waiting to kill you

[thebish]

I suppose I was heading in the direction of it is an estimation based upon lots of suppositions that are not necessarily based in fact. A bit like when they estimate the cost of things like the Olympics and Wembley. Also a bit like the Olympics legacy - they rarely get these estimates even remotely close. I don't doubt that smoke filled rooms has a large effect, but there are so many contributing factors (many not even known), that we risk banning everything.

at risk of banning everything??? that sounds BWFCi-esque in its exaggerated dramatism!!

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

I suppose I was heading in the direction of it is an estimation based upon lots of suppositions that are not necessarily based in fact. A bit like when they estimate the cost of things like the Olympics and Wembley. Also a bit like the Olympics legacy - they rarely get these estimates even remotely close. I don't doubt that smoke filled rooms has a large effect, but there are so many contributing factors (many not even known), that we risk banning everything.

at risk of banning everything??? that sounds BWFCi-esque in its exaggerated dramatism!!

Maybe a teeny dramatic, but with a dose of reality. Take food for example. One day the experts tell us to eat something because it is good for us. A few years later we're told by experts it is bad for us. Too much, too little, cooked a certain way at a certain temperature etc etc.

Life is too short to spend my days worrying about it all. I'm able enough to decide what I expose myself to or not and that includes smoking. I can choose to go somewhere people smoke or not and personally think people should have the personal freedom to choose in most things.

[Lord Kangana]

Nice to have the information though, no?

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

Absolutely.

[thebish]

I suppose I was heading in the direction of it is an estimation based upon lots of suppositions that are not necessarily based in fact. A bit like when they estimate the cost of things like the Olympics and Wembley. Also a bit like the Olympics legacy - they rarely get these estimates even remotely close. I don't doubt that smoke filled rooms has a large effect, but there are so many contributing factors (many not even known), that we risk banning everything.

at risk of banning everything??? that sounds BWFCi-esque in its exaggerated dramatism!!

Maybe a teeny dramatic, but with a dose of reality. Take food for example. One day the experts tell us to eat something because it is good for us. A few years later we're told by experts it is bad for us. Too much, too little, cooked a certain way at a certain temperature etc etc.

Life is too short to spend my days worrying about it all. I'm able enough to decide what I expose myself to or not and that includes smoking. I can choose to go somewhere people smoke or not and personally think people should have the personal freedom to choose in most things.

which is basically the case as it is, no? have any foods that you want to eat been banned?

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

I suppose I was heading in the direction of it is an estimation based upon lots of suppositions that are not necessarily based in fact. A bit like when they estimate the cost of things like the Olympics and Wembley. Also a bit like the Olympics legacy - they rarely get these estimates even remotely close. I don't doubt that smoke filled rooms has a large effect, but there are so many contributing factors (many not even known), that we risk banning everything.

at risk of banning everything??? that sounds BWFCi-esque in its exaggerated dramatism!!

Maybe a teeny dramatic, but with a dose of reality. Take food for example. One day the experts tell us to eat something because it is good for us. A few years later we're told by experts it is bad for us. Too much, too little, cooked a certain way at a certain temperature etc etc.

Life is too short to spend my days worrying about it all. I'm able enough to decide what I expose myself to or not and that includes smoking. I can choose to go somewhere people smoke or not and personally think people should have the personal freedom to choose in most things.

which is basically the case as it is, no? have any foods that you want to eat been banned?

In some places pork

[thebish]

I suppose I was heading in the direction of it is an estimation based upon lots of suppositions that are not necessarily based in fact. A bit like when they estimate the cost of things like the Olympics and Wembley. Also a bit like the Olympics legacy - they rarely get these estimates even remotely close. I don't doubt that smoke filled rooms has a large effect, but there are so many contributing factors (many not even known), that we risk banning everything.

at risk of banning everything??? that sounds BWFCi-esque in its exaggerated dramatism!!

Maybe a teeny dramatic, but with a dose of reality. Take food for example. One day the experts tell us to eat something because it is good for us. A few years later we're told by experts it is bad for us. Too much, too little, cooked a certain way at a certain temperature etc etc.

Life is too short to spend my days worrying about it all. I'm able enough to decide what I expose myself to or not and that includes smoking. I can choose to go somewhere people smoke or not and personally think people should have the personal freedom to choose in most things.

which is basically the case as it is, no? have any foods that you want to eat been banned?

In some places pork

LOL!! or - as someone might once have said..

I'm able enough to decide what I expose myself to or not and that includes pork. I can choose to go and live in pork-free countries or not!

[TANGODANCER]

How did we survive!!! If you lived as a child in the 40's, 50's, 60's or 70's

Looking back, it's hard to believe that we have lived as long as we
have...
As children, we would ride in cars with no seat belts or air bags.
Riding in the back of a pickup truck on a warm day was always a
special treat.
Our baby cribs were covered with bright colored lead-based paint. We
had no childproof lids on medicine bottles, doors, or cabinets.
When we rode our bikes, we had no helmets. (Not to mention hitchhiking
to town as a young kid!)

We drank water from the garden hose and not from a bottle. Horrors.
We would spend hours building our go-carts out of scraps and then rode
down the hill, only to find out we forgot the brakes. After running
into the bushes a few times we learned to solve the problem.
We would leave home in the morning and play all day, as long as we
were back when the streetlights came on. No one was able to reach us
all day. Our parents knew that all the neighbors would watch out for
all the kids. No cell phones. Unthinkable.
We played dodge ball and sometimes the ball would really hurt.

We got cut and broke bones and broke teeth, and there were no lawsuits
from these accidents. They were accidents. No one was to blame, but
us. Remember accidents? We had fights and punched each other and got black and blue and
learned to get over it. We ate cupcakes, bread and butter, and drank sugar soda, but we were
never overweight... we were always outside playing. We shared one
grape soda with four friends, from one bottle and no one died from
this.

We did not have Playstations, Nintendo 64, X-Boxes, video games at
all, 99 channels on cable, video tape movies, surround sound, personal
cell phones, Personal Computers, Internet chat rooms ... we had
friends. We went outside and found them.

We rode bikes or walked to a friend's home and knocked on the door, or
rung the bell or just walked in and talked to them. Imagine such a
thing. Without asking a parent! By ourselves! Out there in the cold
cruel world! Without a guardian. How did we do it?

We made up games with sticks and tennis balls and ate worms and
although we were told it would happen, we did not put out very many
eyes, nor did the worms live inside us forever. Little League had tryouts and not everyone made the team. Those who
didn't, had to learn to deal with disappointment.... The teams
actually kept score and the winning team was allowed to be excited and
the losing team learned to be good sports about it and learned that,
in life - sometimes you win and sometimes you lose.

Some students weren't as smart as others so they failed a grade and
were held back to repeat the same grade..... Horrors. Tests were not
adjusted for any reason.

Almost no one went to "pre-school" and when we graduated high school
we all knew how to read, use proper grammar and do basic math. We all
learned how to count out change without a calculator to tell us the
amount.

The worst problems in school were tardiness and chewing gum in class.
Our actions were our own. Consequences were expected. No one to hide
behind. The idea of a parent bailing us out if we broke a law was
unheard of. They actually sided with the law ... imagine that!

If you misbehaved - your parents spanked you and no one arrested them
for doing that! We also learned that when a parent said "No" - they
actually meant that and our lives would not be ruined forever by being
denied every little thing we wanted at any given moment.

New toys were received on birthdays and holidays..... not on every
trip to the store. Parents gave us gifts out of love.... not out of
guilt.

This generation has produced some of the best risk-takers and problem
solvers and inventors, ever. The past 50 years has been an explosion
of innovation and new ideas. We had freedom, failure, success and
responsibility, and we learned how to deal with it all.

And you're one of them.

Congratulations!

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

LOL!! or - as someone might once have said..

I'm able enough to decide what I expose myself to or not and that includes pork. I can choose to go and live in pork-free countries or not!

Though sometimes you have to go where you're told!

[BWFC_Insane]

How did we survive!!! If you lived as a child in the 40's, 50's, 60's or 70's

Looking back, it's hard to believe that we have lived as long as we
have...
As children, we would ride in cars with no seat belts or air bags.
Riding in the back of a pickup truck on a warm day was always a
special treat.
Our baby cribs were covered with bright colored lead-based paint. We
had no childproof lids on medicine bottles, doors, or cabinets.
When we rode our bikes, we had no helmets. (Not to mention hitchhiking
to town as a young kid!)

We drank water from the garden hose and not from a bottle. Horrors.
We would spend hours building our go-carts out of scraps and then rode
down the hill, only to find out we forgot the brakes. After running
into the bushes a few times we learned to solve the problem.
We would leave home in the morning and play all day, as long as we
were back when the streetlights came on. No one was able to reach us
all day. Our parents knew that all the neighbors would watch out for
all the kids. No cell phones. Unthinkable.
We played dodge ball and sometimes the ball would really hurt.

We got cut and broke bones and broke teeth, and there were no lawsuits
from these accidents. They were accidents. No one was to blame, but
us. Remember accidents? We had fights and punched each other and got black and blue and
learned to get over it. We ate cupcakes, bread and butter, and drank sugar soda, but we were
never overweight... we were always outside playing. We shared one
grape soda with four friends, from one bottle and no one died from
this.

We did not have Playstations, Nintendo 64, X-Boxes, video games at
all, 99 channels on cable, video tape movies, surround sound, personal
cell phones, Personal Computers, Internet chat rooms ... we had
friends. We went outside and found them.

We rode bikes or walked to a friend's home and knocked on the door, or
rung the bell or just walked in and talked to them. Imagine such a
thing. Without asking a parent! By ourselves! Out there in the cold
cruel world! Without a guardian. How did we do it?

We made up games with sticks and tennis balls and ate worms and
although we were told it would happen, we did not put out very many
eyes, nor did the worms live inside us forever. Little League had tryouts and not everyone made the team. Those who
didn't, had to learn to deal with disappointment.... The teams
actually kept score and the winning team was allowed to be excited and
the losing team learned to be good sports about it and learned that,
in life - sometimes you win and sometimes you lose.

Some students weren't as smart as others so they failed a grade and
were held back to repeat the same grade..... Horrors. Tests were not
adjusted for any reason.

Almost no one went to "pre-school" and when we graduated high school
we all knew how to read, use proper grammar and do basic math. We all
learned how to count out change without a calculator to tell us the
amount.

The worst problems in school were tardiness and chewing gum in class.
Our actions were our own. Consequences were expected. No one to hide
behind. The idea of a parent bailing us out if we broke a law was
unheard of. They actually sided with the law ... imagine that!

If you misbehaved - your parents spanked you and no one arrested them
for doing that! We also learned that when a parent said "No" - they
actually meant that and our lives would not be ruined forever by being
denied every little thing we wanted at any given moment.

New toys were received on birthdays and holidays..... not on every
trip to the store. Parents gave us gifts out of love.... not out of
guilt.

This generation has produced some of the best risk-takers and problem
solvers and inventors, ever. The past 50 years has been an explosion
of innovation and new ideas. We had freedom, failure, success and
responsibility, and we learned how to deal with it all.

And you're one of them.

Congratulations!

I love this whole "everything was dead ace in the past" revisionism that is so very popular with many people.

The trouble is that it wasn't. There were just as many problems, people often died younger, the medical care was poorer and often people suffered through rotten lives.

Not saying people don't suffer now but the notion that health awareness might be a bad thing is absolutely absurd. I know people don't like preventatitve medicine, but one of the main reasons it's necessary is because of the cost of supporting an increasingly elderly population. That population grows because medical care has improved.

Catch 22.

Sure there are large parts of the population now who can't manage to eat a balanced diet and as such need the education. But again we're at catch 22 because take the education away and the problem won't get smaller it'll only get worse.

[thebish]

tango - I don't believe you "graduated high-school" or "did basic math".... or were you brought up in the US??

(also - the idea that a load of the simple stuff you describe doesn't also happen now is ludicrous...)

[TANGODANCER]

tango - I don't believe you "graduated high-school" or "did basic math".... or were you brought up in the US??

(also - the idea that a load of the simple stuff you describe doesn't also happen now is ludicrous...)

I posted it. I didn't write it, or claim to. I read it, it made me smile, I shared it. I probably also expected it to be pooh-pooh'd. What else is new?

[thebish]

tango - I don't believe you "graduated high-school" or "did basic math".... or were you brought up in the US??

(also - the idea that a load of the simple stuff you describe doesn't also happen now is ludicrous...)

I posted it. I didn't write it, or claim to. I read it, it made me smile, I shared it. I probably also expected it to be pooh-pooh'd. What else is new?

well - it does start with the words "How did we survive"!!

[Bijou Bob]

Spot on about the revisionism thing. My best friend as a lad lost his mother due to childbirth complications and his sister then died as a result of a virus aged 5. Neither would have died today.

On another note, a full list of the things The Daily Mail says can give you cancer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFfWykH05Gw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;