Dougie Freedman - Ten Months On

[Lord Kangana]

That's still Dougie's choice. You make out like it was out of his hands,

[BL3]

So is Dougie planning to sign a load of players who never make any individual errors, so that he doesn't need to coach them at all? Would it not be easier to just implement the strategy of managing the game when we don't have possession, which he told us all about last season?

[plymouth wanderer]

So is Dougie planning to sign a load of players who never make any individual errors, so that he doesn't need to coach them at all? Would it not be easier to just implement the strategy of managing the game when we don't have possession, which he told us all about last season?

Do you rate our defence?

[thebish]

as with most of these arguments, it's not one thing or another - it is both. YES we have defenders with individual frailties - but also YES - you'd expect that as a unit they could be coached/managed so that those errors are neutralised - maybe not completely eradicated - but mollified... a week or so - I think it was DSB pointed out that Palace's defensive record improved when the club brought in a defensive coach to work with them...

people used to urge bolton to do the same when Coyle was here - bring in a defensive coach - maybe that's an option - and cheaper than replacing the entire back four...

[LeverEnd]

That's still Dougie's choice. You make out like it was out of his hands,

I think it's part of the hand that he was dealt. There's a difference between protecting an investment and choosing a new player. Look I'm not saying poor Dougie none of this is his fault. The current state of affairs is unacceptable and lots of it is his fault. However when he can't move players in or out when he wants to that mitigates it to an extent.
The whole Wheater thing is an aside to the point I was trying to make, which was that individual errors are the fault of the players. There are managerial errors there as well, but SF was making out that Dougie is at fault for everything and he's made capped international defenders pass the ball to the opposition near goal.

Out of interest LK what would you have done about Wheater when his contract was running down?

[Lord Kangana]

Bit of a silly question really, because I've not questioned him re-signing, I've questioned your conclusion that it wasn't Dougie's decision. Its doubly vexing, because this comes immediately after you suggested that Dougie didn't sign most of this defence. What were you implying?

its not in my hands anyway, and I don't see him close up everyday. I would have done what was best for the team and for the club, but ultimately whichever decision I took it would be me taking it and therefore my responsibility for good or ill.

[BWFC_Insane]

Wheater took a wage cut. Which is why I assume we signed him to a new deal. To reduce wages.

[Lord Kangana]

So it was Dougie who negotiated that, no?

[StaffsTrotter]

not sure I'm getting what the debate is here but

Isn't a managers job to make the best of the resources available.

Won't individuals always make mistakes and the trick (managers job) is to set the team up to minimise the impact of any individual making a mistake. Whether he needs a coach for the defence or attack or midfield to help in that, is his call presumably taking into account the abilities he has and his confidence in the people he already has in the set up.

Finally I still say that this pigoenholing our players as great or shit is bollocks. Everyone of our players is good enough for this league. Still makes me smile (in a manic way admittedly) that so many of our 'shit' players who many were glad to see the back of, ended up at Wet Spam doing what seems a reasonable job in the Premier League.

[LeverEnd]

Bit of a silly question really, because I've not questioned him re-signing, I've questioned your conclusion that it wasn't Dougie's decision. Its doubly vexing, because this comes immediately after you suggested that Dougie didn't sign most of this defence. What were you implying?

its not in my hands anyway, and I don't see him close up everyday. I would have done what was best for the team and for the club, but ultimately whichever decision I took it would be me taking it and therefore my responsibility for good or ill.

That clearly wasn't my conclusion. I'm not going over it again as I think you know exactly what I meant. I'll rephrase it and say that 3 out of the 4 defenders at Blackburn weren't brought to the club by Dougie. I realise it won't matter as everything is Dougie's fault to you.

[Lord Kangana]

I'm trying to provide balance to the position that its all somebody else's.

[LeverEnd]

I'm trying to provide balance to the position that its all somebody else's.

Balance is good! I started off trying to provide balance to SF's assertion that basic defensive errors by experienced individuals are all Freedman's fault. There is a lot about the early form that IS his fault, and if he doesn't sort it out then he should go. I'll agree on that.

[BWFC_Insane]

The obvious balance is to ask when we went on our record breaking run of 5 consecutive clean sheets at home last season was that down to Craig Dawson or Dougie and his coaching?

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

The obvious balance is to ask when we went on our record breaking run of 5 consecutive clean sheets at home last season was that down to Craig Dawson or Dougie and his coaching?

To which the obvious binary answer is Dougie if you like Dougie, Dawson if you don't.

[thebish]

The obvious balance is to ask when we went on our record breaking run of 5 consecutive clean sheets at home last season was that down to Craig Dawson or Dougie and his coaching?

not sure that's an obvious balance - it's the offer of an either-or dichotomy!!

it could also be both and/or neither and/or a whole host of other factors!

[thebish]

The obvious balance is to ask when we went on our record breaking run of 5 consecutive clean sheets at home last season was that down to Craig Dawson or Dougie and his coaching?

To which the obvious binary answer is Dougie if you like Dougie, Dawson if you don't.

ahh - but the dawson answer also turns out to be a "like dougie" answer - cos dougie brought him in!

it's a trap!!!

[BWFC_Insane]

The obvious balance is to ask when we went on our record breaking run of 5 consecutive clean sheets at home last season was that down to Craig Dawson or Dougie and his coaching?

not sure that's an obvious balance - it's the offer of an either-or dichotomy!!

it could also be both and/or neither and/or a whole host of other factors!

It is a fairly obvious balance. We kept clean sheets with Dawson in. That is either because Dawson was the missing link in our back four or because they were coached better.

Seeing as the coaching has been a constant I'd say the answer is fairly obvious.

I remember Simon Coleman coming in to a back four and suddenly settling it all down mid season when previously we'd really struggled to stop conceding.

Florent Laville did the same with a similarly leaky back four.

In both cases Allardyce and Rioch had perfectly good coaching set ups. But the balance of players wasn't right.

That's where we are at now IMO. Perhaps some of that is Dougies fault for not signing a centre half. Though given what it is reported he has spent I'd let him off from most of that seeing as any sort of centre half signing would have left us with 5 and the possibility of a serious lack of numbers elsewhere.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

The obvious balance is to ask when we went on our record breaking run of 5 consecutive clean sheets at home last season was that down to Craig Dawson or Dougie and his coaching?

not sure that's an obvious balance - it's the offer of an either-or dichotomy!!

it could also be both and/or neither and/or a whole host of other factors!

I'm in need of a Venn diagram to illustrate this answer!

[Enoch]

I'd have thought the answer is obvious!

[Enoch]

Where's them people with all the answers when you need them?

Oh hang on, I think one's coming along now.