The Politics Thread

[Hoboh]

Moving away from the traveller debate.

Does anyone anywhere think Ed Milliband is up to the job?

Being left of centre I'd like to see Labour being led by somebody half decent. This guy just strikes me as a typical 21st century manufactured politician. He seems to be a master at pre rehearsed- stick to the script- bollox and yet devoid of any real substance. Can't see him being any threat to the Tories

no - he's not - but nor is his Mr Bean brother... the labour party has purged itself of anyone worth leading it...

Who are these people, out of interest?

Labour politicians I've respected in the last ten years:

Tony Blair
David Miliband
Charles Clarke
Really struggling for names now...

And to think I had you down for an intelligent bloke!!!! Tony Benn was about the best till hs love in with the Russkis!

[thebish]

On R5 discussion programme - faced with a disabled man who has lost most of his Motability allowance and other benefits - Grant Shapps declares that "it'll all be sorted out by 2013" - and, anyway - we all have to make sacrifices - why, he himself has had to cut back his Sky Package!!!!

[Lord Kangana]

Is Grant Shapps in anyway important in that discussion?

[thebish]

Is Grant Shapps in anyway important in that discussion?

I believe he's part of the coalition cabinet, isn't he?

[Lord Kangana]

Wouldn't know most of 'em from Adam to be honest.

The only ones I notice are that Thatcher-lite one who is now at the forefront of scrapping human rights. Presumably to be replaced with human wrongs. The David Owen/David Steel tribute act and the lad whose mother bought him his chancellor's suit presumably so he'd grow into it. And Danny Alexander.

[thebish]

Wouldn't know most of 'em from Adam to be honest.

The only ones I notice are that Thatcher-lite one who is now at the forefront of scrapping human rights. Presumably to be replaced with human wrongs. The David Owen/David Steel tribute act and the lad whose mother bought him his chancellor's suit presumably so he'd grow into it. And Danny Alexander.

Shapps is the housing minister... he was on (I think) to explain the details of the new selling off council houses policy - where they sell off most of the housing stock (from nice areas) and build some more in crap areas...

and he doesn't look like a cock at all, no, not the slightest resemblance...

[Prufrock]

To call them scrappers of human rights is unfair, the coalition programme for government is a big step towards greater protections of human rights. They're just liars.

[Hoboh]

Thanks for ruining my breakfast pal mentioning the Human rights act!!!!

Lets scrap it for a citizens rights act you know one were you have a right not to be burgled, beaten up, mugged, legally dismember intruders, burn down illegal gypsy camps or forced to listen to "rolling in the deep" from 10 houses away played by some teenage scrote who's just been ditched by a n other scrote!!!
That'll do for starters.

[thebish]

Wouldn't know most of 'em from Adam to be honest.

The only ones I notice are that Thatcher-lite one who is now at the forefront of scrapping human rights. Presumably to be replaced with human wrongs. The David Owen/David Steel tribute act and the lad whose mother bought him his chancellor's suit presumably so he'd grow into it. And Danny Alexander.

shapps - smooth operator!

http://www.bloggerheads.com/archives/20 ... nt_shapps/

[William the White]

Thanks for ruining my breakfast pal mentioning the Human rights act!!!!

Lets scrap it for a citizens rights act you know one were you have a right not to be burgled, beaten up, mugged, legally dismember intruders, burn down illegal gypsy camps or forced to listen to "rolling in the deep" from 10 houses away played by some teenage scrote who's just been ditched by a n other scrote!!!
That'll do for starters.

wow...

Just set the alarm clock to PM you nice and early with the message line... HUMAN RIGHTS ACT...

One of the most serious advances of the 20th century... and overseen in its original incarnation, the European Treaty on Human Rights, by prominent Tory lawyer, David Maxwell Fyffe, who had seen what the Nazis had done to human right, prosecuted in the Nuremberg trials - including the cross-examination of Hermann Goring. That treaty enshrined democrat principles at a time of nightmare.

Well done him, and how disgraceful, and predictable, the current Tory trashing of his legacy...

hope the courts resist it!

[Prufrock]

I don't. Honestly, I don't. The Human Rights Act, rightly or wrongly, is viewed as an enemy for far too much of the population. Too much Daily Mail thinking, mixed with confuddled Euro-scepticism means so many people view it as something to be avoided, got round, fought. People view it as 'imposed'. What should be something with the support of the nation (seriously, Hoboh, actually read the Human Rights Act, there is not a word of it a reasonable person would disagree with) as we all agree on decent ways of not being a bastard, and making sure we can live our lives freely, and without oppression. There should, in my view, be some sort of UK Bill of Rights, done properly, with public support, through our own Parliament, then there could be an end to all this bollocks.

[Prufrock]

Agree with you on Maxwell though!

[William the White]

I don't. Honestly, I don't. The Human Rights Act, rightly or wrongly, is viewed as an enemy for far too much of the population. Too much Daily Mail thinking, mixed with confuddled Euro-scepticism means so many people view it as something to be avoided, got round, fought. People view it as 'imposed'. What should be something with the support of the nation (seriously, Hoboh, actually read the Human Rights Act, there is not a word of it a reasonable person would disagree with) as we all agree on decent ways of not being a bastard, and making sure we can live our lives freely, and without oppression. There should, in my view, be some sort of UK Bill of Rights, done properly, with public support, through our own Parliament, then there could be an end to all this bollocks.

Human Rights is an international issue - that's what maxwell fyffe recognised.

The more you concede to daily mail style propaganda the more they want... they are the beasts never satisfied... the vampires always after the next pin t of blood...

International law helps some profoundly vile people to be brought to trial... So face em down, stand up for human rights the world over...

[Lord Kangana]

The issue people are getting confused over is that a very tiny minority abuse the freedom and protection it gives. If the same logic were applied to capitalism, we would have rid ourselves of that system many moons ago.

Human rights lawyer (sounding suspiciously like an old fashioned Tory) was on the radio today saying the present day party should stop making policy to suit Sun editorials. Can't argue with that.

[Hoboh]

I don't. Honestly, I don't. The Human Rights Act, rightly or wrongly, is viewed as an enemy for far too much of the population. Too much Daily Mail thinking, mixed with confuddled Euro-scepticism means so many people view it as something to be avoided, got round, fought. People view it as 'imposed'. What should be something with the support of the nation (seriously, Hoboh, actually read the Human Rights Act, there is not a word of it a reasonable person would disagree with) as we all agree on decent ways of not being a bastard, and making sure we can live our lives freely, and without oppression. There should, in my view, be some sort of UK Bill of Rights, done properly, with public support, through our own Parliament, then there could be an end to all this bollocks.

Pru, I am not against rights per-se I would favour a Charter of Rights & Responabilites, in my book one does not "fit" without the other.
This would be formed by all elected MP's and Partys with the final say going to Joe Public in a referendum, any really contensius points could be voted in the same way given there proberbly would only be half a doz or so "real issues" then put the final draft into law, no one then can complain seriously about a "bill of rights"

[Prufrock]

I don't. Honestly, I don't. The Human Rights Act, rightly or wrongly, is viewed as an enemy for far too much of the population. Too much Daily Mail thinking, mixed with confuddled Euro-scepticism means so many people view it as something to be avoided, got round, fought. People view it as 'imposed'. What should be something with the support of the nation (seriously, Hoboh, actually read the Human Rights Act, there is not a word of it a reasonable person would disagree with) as we all agree on decent ways of not being a bastard, and making sure we can live our lives freely, and without oppression. There should, in my view, be some sort of UK Bill of Rights, done properly, with public support, through our own Parliament, then there could be an end to all this bollocks.

Human Rights is an international issue - that's what maxwell fyffe recognised.

The more you concede to daily mail style propaganda the more they want... they are the beasts never satisfied... the vampires always after the next pin t of blood...

International law helps some profoundly vile people to be brought to trial... So face em down, stand up for human rights the world over...

Replacing the Human Rights Act with a British Bill of Rights would make no difference to any of that. Despite its origins being written by a Scot, people don't feel like they own it, they feel it is imposed. That doesn't have to be true for people to feel it. People feel the Human Rights Act is an inconvenience to be got around, and not a collective document to be proud of. Mistaken as they are, people feel it is a document imposed by European bureaucrats from Brussels. If Human Rights in this country are even going to get beyond tabloid gurning and deliberate fallacies then there needs to be a point where the mood is changed. A discussion on what people believe to be the core values of British society is something I think we need.

[Lord Kangana]

I think first we should hold a public torturing of Kelvin Mackenzie until he spaketh the truth.

You know, if we're doing the whole "what the British public needs" thing.

Or just for kicks. Two sides of the same coin.

[Prufrock]

I don't. Honestly, I don't. The Human Rights Act, rightly or wrongly, is viewed as an enemy for far too much of the population. Too much Daily Mail thinking, mixed with confuddled Euro-scepticism means so many people view it as something to be avoided, got round, fought. People view it as 'imposed'. What should be something with the support of the nation (seriously, Hoboh, actually read the Human Rights Act, there is not a word of it a reasonable person would disagree with) as we all agree on decent ways of not being a bastard, and making sure we can live our lives freely, and without oppression. There should, in my view, be some sort of UK Bill of Rights, done properly, with public support, through our own Parliament, then there could be an end to all this bollocks.

Pru, I am not against rights per-se I would favour a Charter of Rights & Responabilites, in my book one does not "fit" without the other.
This would be formed by all elected MP's and Partys with the final say going to Joe Public in a referendum, any really contensius points could be voted in the same way given there proberbly would only be half a doz or so "real issues" then put the final draft into law, no one then can complain seriously about a "bill of rights"

That is something that always comes up, and I see the logic, but I also see it as an intuitive reaction against 'weak-willed lawyers and their manipulative clients trying to use human rights to get out of their responsibilities'. People already have responsibilities, that's pretty much what all criminal law is. Lots and lots of responsibilities people have to do certain things or not do certain things. If they fail in that regard they are fined or imprisoned. Whether or not you think these penalties are in themselves enough doesn't change that those responsibilities are there. What human rights law is about, is what, in return, does the state owe its citizens, be it rights directly from it, or protection against abuses by others. Some are absolute- the prohibition of slavery, others conditional- the right to liberty (taken away if convicted fairly by a proper court). These are all sensible proposals. Sure people disagree on specifics, but the fundamental ideas behind, that the state should try to protect its citizens, and leave them as free as possible to get on with the lives they wish would be fairly consistent. All this is currently lost by bullshit talk of Brussels and stories, down-right fabrications a lot of the time, massive exaggerations the rest of the time.

[Prufrock]

I think first we should hold a public torturing of Kelvin Mackenzie until he spaketh the truth.

You know, if we're doing the whole "what the British public needs" thing.

Or just for kicks. Two sides of the same coin.

There'd probably be a small gap between repealing the Human Rights Act and enacting our own British Bill of Rights, wouldn't there?

[Bruce Rioja]

and he doesn't look like a cock at all, no, not the slightest resemblance...

Looks like a bloke .Meh! How does his appearance alter anything politically anyway?