80mph motorways?

[Montreal Wanderer]

From what I read it would seem irresponsible to raise the limit given the inadequacy of the infrastructure and the volume of traffic. Sorry PB.

Even if, when combined with sricter enforcement policy, it didn't actually raise average speeds, but did promote a culture of respect for speed limits that is helpful for roads other than motorways?

I'm all for creating a culture of respect but I am unsure how raising speed limits will do this (along with not increasing average speeds ). I must be missing something here. One of the real problems over here is that if you keep a safe distances behind the car in front people will cut in all the time. I imagine that is true in the UK too. This leads to road rage and more unsafe practices.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Do the motorways have changing limits (we have them posted in lights at the side of the road and overhead if conditions require lowering the limit - congestion, accident ahead, freezing rain, or whatever)?

It's not common on British roads, no.

And I agree that it should be. Again the M25 scheme is the best example over here of how that might work.

how the feck are you allowed on roads?????

Yes they do, every motorway has them - they are called Matrix signs.

Yes, the signs exist, but they don't actually change the legal speed limit in the rain, for example, do they?

[Montreal Wanderer]

Do the motorways have changing limits (we have them posted in lights at the side of the road and overhead if conditions require lowering the limit - congestion, accident ahead, freezing rain, or whatever)?

It's not common on British roads, no.

And I agree that it should be. Again the M25 scheme is the best example over here of how that might work.

how the feck are you allowed on roads?????

Yes they do, every motorway has them - they are called Matrix signs.

Yes, the signs exist, but they don't actually change the legal speed limit in the rain, for example, do they?

Ours certainly do just the same as someone standing at the side of the road with a sign during some repair work. Indeed fines are doubled in the latter case.

[americantrotter]

Traffic will never get better. The more people that drive the more idiots there are on the roads. Even intelligent people become morons on highways. It's the same over here. The only thing that will stop the stupidity is higher gas prices and higher taxes on 2nd vehicles, with relief for using Public Transportation. in short, I;ve seen the motorways in England and they suffer from the same things we do here.

too many people.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

I'm all for creating a culture of respect but I am unsure how raising speed limits will do this (along with not increasing average speeds ). I must be missing something here.

Ok, well the reality is that most people on British motorways don't believe that 70mph is an appropriate speed limit when there is no congestion and the road is dry. This is because modern cars cruise comfortably at about 80mph, and it is frustrating to 'hold the car back' at 70.

My theory is that the fact that people regularly flout the 70mph limit, perhaps because they consider it anachronistic given that it was set in 1965 when it then represented the flat-out speed of a decent car, and brakes and tyres have improved dramatically since, has a detrimental effect on the respect afforded to speed limit schemes in areas where they are far more important.

So, I think that if a reasonable speed limit is more strictly enforced, it elevates the status of speed limits in drivers' minds.

Yes, some drivers might do 80 rather than 70, which you would have the effect of pushing average speeds up, but the majority of drivers are already driving at around 80, and the stricter enforcement beyond 80 would probably come close to off-setting the increase in avergae speeds caused by the 70 up to 80 group.

[Tombwfc]

I think you're giving people of this country far too much credit. Raising the speed limit will surely just get people used to driving at a faster speed, and thus drive faster on other types of road?

[Worthy4England]

This thread is so frustrating I'm off to ton it down the A580 to relieve some of the stress....If you're crossing please cross carefully for the next 30 mins or so...

[chris]

I think you're giving people of this country far too much credit. Raising the speed limit will surely just get people used to driving at a faster speed, and thus drive faster on other types of road?

I think a change now would not effect the driving habits of already qualified drivers.

But for new drivers, you raise a very good point - particularly for national limit areas on a single carriageway.



Veering off topic slightly, but motorway driving also needs to be tested (perhaps making the advanced course with motorway driving compulsory)

[americantrotter]

I just adjust to the road. If I know there are no cops, I will go as fast as I feel safe. Sure this is foolish, but I won't go 50 in a 40 if the 40 is a decent set speed. Cops should give more tickets if you have so many speeders.

Interestingly, around busy centers like Boston you can often be chastised by police for not going fast enough.

My only point re:cops is that they constantly cause rubber necking for stopping the smallest offenders. Rubber necking leads to massive traffic jams here.

[Montreal Wanderer]

I have to make a slight correction. I said I drove 3000 kms to Chicago in two days. I should have said 3000 kms to Denver in two days, stopping just past Chicago (1500kms) the first night.

I think people speed a certain amount above any limit on the highways (motorways) because they know the police tolerances. If you can safely do 80 in a 70 zone, they will do 90 in an 80 zone. This might be perfectly safe (depending on conditions) but it is human nature. Therefore I would guess that average speeds would rise if the limit rises.

[Bruce Rioja]

I have to make a slight correction. I said I drove 3000 kms to Chicago in two days. I should have said 3000 kms to Denver in two days, stopping just past Chicago (1500kms) the first night.

I think it's safe to say that you'd have crept under the wire with that one, Monty.

[communistworkethic]

Do the motorways have changing limits (we have them posted in lights at the side of the road and overhead if conditions require lowering the limit - congestion, accident ahead, freezing rain, or whatever)?

It's not common on British roads, no.

And I agree that it should be. Again the M25 scheme is the best example over here of how that might work.

how the feck are you allowed on roads?????

Yes they do, every motorway has them - they are called Matrix signs.

Yes, the signs exist, but they don't actually change the legal speed limit in the rain, for example, do they?

yes, that's their purpose!!

[FaninOz]

In Western Australia there is a debate going on to REDUCE speed limits because of the growing death rate on the roads. Not that its particularly high, around 240 people this year and increasing, in a State around 7 times the size of the UK and but with only around 2.5mil people. We only have one and a bit motorways (around 150 klms in length) were the speed limit is 100klm/hr and there are few accidents, but we have thousands and thousands of klms of country roads where the speed limit is 110klms/hr and City/Town roads where the speed limit is 50klms/hr.

In general its not cars travelling at these speed limits that causes the deaths, the problem is in general younger people driving high performance cars well over any speed limit on City and country roads, often at night, and in many occassions drunk as well. Changing speed limits will have no effect on these drivers at all.

So Its not the speed limits or cars that's the problem its the people who drive them, and untill that's sorted out speed limit levels is an eroneous argument. Unless we want to go back to the guy with a red flag walking in front of every car, well at least that would reduce the unemployment rate in the UK.

The other big argument in Oz is the use of 4x4 cars in Cities, there is a call to either ban them or charge very excessive road tax rates on them because although they are safer for the drivers and passengers travelling in them they are more damaging to other road users in an accident. Again an @rse about tit argument.

[Montreal Wanderer]

The other big argument in Oz is the use of 4x4 cars in Cities, there is a call to either ban them or charge very excessive road tax rates on them because although they are safer for the drivers and passengers travelling in them they are more damaging to other road users in an accident. Again an @rse about tit argument.

They use more gas and cause air pollution and environmental damage. They are heavier and damage the road surface more. Perhaps a higher tax is not unreasonable. The trouble with these things here is they tend to be driven by women in our city, 92% of whom are on cell phones unaware of people like me. So I don't like them very much.

[communistworkethic]

The other big argument in Oz is the use of 4x4 cars in Cities, there is a call to either ban them or charge very excessive road tax rates on them because although they are safer for the drivers and passengers travelling in them they are more damaging to other road users in an accident. Again an @rse about tit argument.

They use more gas and cause air pollution and environmental damage. They are heavier and damage the road surface more. Perhaps a higher tax is not unreasonable. The trouble with these things here is they tend to be driven by women in our city, 92% of whom are on cell phones unaware of people like me. So I don't like them very much.

such a huge sweeping statement so as to render it nonsense. I suggest you go and look at the co2 output of an audi a6 or a bmw 5 series and the output of a fiat panda 4x4 or a honda crv 2.2cdt-i or a toyata rav4 or an audi a3 quattro. Then look deeper at the enviro-hippies' choice of cars and the crap they churn out, and the hyrbrid cars which just shift their envronmental impact to the production end and the scrapping end due to their reliance on heavy metals for the batteries and the fact they still get charged from electricity predominantly producted by fossil feuls.




imho, of course.

[Worthy4England]

Issue with the higher tax rate for the 4*4's (or other gas guzzlers, because they're not all 4*4's), is that the people who generally buy them can afford to pay a higher road tax if they can afford the car itself - they don't come cheap as new. There's also an issue when you start to compare against Commercial vehicles and the tax they pay. While the government can go some way to increasing the road tax for these cars, it's a complex landscape to do it under the banner of "being Green" as the tax on commercial vehicles would have to go up disproportionally.

I pay nearly as much in Vehicle Tax as an "up to" 61 seat bus (£300 per year against £330 for the bus). General Haulage Vehicles only pay £350 per year and two classes of Articulated Goods Vehicle pay less then me.

In terms of "penalty" against "lack of greenness"/damage to road surface/ wear and tear etc, I think I'm already in a punitive tax band.

[BWFC_Insane]

My only issue with 4*4's is the complete tools that drive them (not in all cases of course).

Just cos its big doesn't mean you can park it in the middle of the road or across three spaces.

Also doesn't mean you can fail to give way when the obstruction is on your side and just plough through.

Anyone who buys a 4*4 and simply chunters round town in it should IMO be shot.

[Montreal Wanderer]

The other big argument in Oz is the use of 4x4 cars in Cities, there is a call to either ban them or charge very excessive road tax rates on them because although they are safer for the drivers and passengers travelling in them they are more damaging to other road users in an accident. Again an @rse about tit argument.

They use more gas and cause air pollution and environmental damage. They are heavier and damage the road surface more. Perhaps a higher tax is not unreasonable. The trouble with these things here is they tend to be driven by women in our city, 92% of whom are on cell phones unaware of people like me. So I don't like them very much.

such a huge sweeping statement so as to render it nonsense. I suggest you go and look at the co2 output of an audi a6 or a bmw 5 series and the output of a fiat panda 4x4 or a honda crv 2.2cdt-i or a toyata rav4 or an audi a3 quattro. Then look deeper at the enviro-hippies' choice of cars and the crap they churn out, and the hyrbrid cars which just shift their envronmental impact to the production end and the scrapping end due to their reliance on heavy metals for the batteries and the fact they still get charged from electricity predominantly producted by fossil feuls.




imho, of course.

It is also possible that the 4x4's and SUVs over here are of a slightly different type - don't think I've seen a fiat panda although there are a few ravs. This said I still don't necessarily perceive a problem with a variable road tax for vehicles based on weight and engine size.

[Worthy4England]

The other big argument in Oz is the use of 4x4 cars in Cities, there is a call to either ban them or charge very excessive road tax rates on them because although they are safer for the drivers and passengers travelling in them they are more damaging to other road users in an accident. Again an @rse about tit argument.

They use more gas and cause air pollution and environmental damage. They are heavier and damage the road surface more. Perhaps a higher tax is not unreasonable. The trouble with these things here is they tend to be driven by women in our city, 92% of whom are on cell phones unaware of people like me. So I don't like them very much.

such a huge sweeping statement so as to render it nonsense. I suggest you go and look at the co2 output of an audi a6 or a bmw 5 series and the output of a fiat panda 4x4 or a honda crv 2.2cdt-i or a toyata rav4 or an audi a3 quattro. Then look deeper at the enviro-hippies' choice of cars and the crap they churn out, and the hyrbrid cars which just shift their envronmental impact to the production end and the scrapping end due to their reliance on heavy metals for the batteries and the fact they still get charged from electricity predominantly producted by fossil feuls.




imho, of course.

It is also possible that the 4x4's and SUVs over here are of a slightly different type - don't think I've seen a fiat panda although there are a few ravs. This said I still don't necessarily perceive a problem with a variable road tax for vehicles based on weight and engine size.

Not sure what the conversation is here. We already have this in the UK. There's around 9 different levels of Vehicle Tax, levied dependent on the vehicle emissions fo Private Cars....

[Montreal Wanderer]

The other big argument in Oz is the use of 4x4 cars in Cities, there is a call to either ban them or charge very excessive road tax rates on them because although they are safer for the drivers and passengers travelling in them they are more damaging to other road users in an accident. Again an @rse about tit argument.

They use more gas and cause air pollution and environmental damage. They are heavier and damage the road surface more. Perhaps a higher tax is not unreasonable. The trouble with these things here is they tend to be driven by women in our city, 92% of whom are on cell phones unaware of people like me. So I don't like them very much.

such a huge sweeping statement so as to render it nonsense. I suggest you go and look at the co2 output of an audi a6 or a bmw 5 series and the output of a fiat panda 4x4 or a honda crv 2.2cdt-i or a toyata rav4 or an audi a3 quattro. Then look deeper at the enviro-hippies' choice of cars and the crap they churn out, and the hyrbrid cars which just shift their envronmental impact to the production end and the scrapping end due to their reliance on heavy metals for the batteries and the fact they still get charged from electricity predominantly producted by fossil feuls.




imho, of course.

It is also possible that the 4x4's and SUVs over here are of a slightly different type - don't think I've seen a fiat panda although there are a few ravs. This said I still don't necessarily perceive a problem with a variable road tax for vehicles based on weight and engine size.

Not sure what the conversation is here. We already have this in the UK. There's around 9 different levels of Vehicle Tax, levied dependent on the vehicle emissions fo Private Cars....

Well actually it was about Western Australia....