Bijou Bob's Bargain Basement Buys - Jan transfer thread

[Prufrock]

If the Fiorentina/ Atletico rumours are correct I can't see us being able to persuade him he should go to Stoke now rather than sign to go live in Florence or Madrid with a premium on his wages to reflect they got him for nowt!

[Spartan2]

I've said many times that I'm glad he went. I've said it many times to you in the course of this discussion. I just tire of the playschool idea that everything was shite under Freedman and everything is berrrrrilliant under Lennon, because it's massively oversimplistic and ignores a few things Freedman did well. For instance, I note you ignored my second point about the "very good" midfield he "inherited", which in fact was 50% assembled by him on free transfers.

I'll say it again: I have no doubt that we're better for getting rid of Freedman. And I have no intention of trying to "convince" you that he was a good manager. Just saying that not everything he did was "terrible", because if that kind of mindless binary gainsaying becomes the norm on here, it will be vastly the poorer for it.

I ignored it because I try to avoid pointless, time consuming internet debates that never resolve. The midfield I was referring to was, the player's favoured by NL since he took over, Pratley Danns, Vela, CYL, Feeney etc. But signing Feeney and Danns doesn't redeem DF at all, they're not the special players in that midfield. Danns is decent but Feeney is just average for this league. It's the players DF didn't sign, CYL, Pratley, Vela, that make it. Without those players it wouldn't be anything special at all.

DF inherited:

---CYL--------Mavies/CYL--------Eagles
-------------Pratley---------Vela/Andrews

IMO that's very good for this division. Of course injuries and such affect things but most of it was largely available to him throughout his stay here. He seemed to fall out with eagles, freeze out Andrews (who played for teams above us) get absolutely nothing out of Pratley/CYL and despite all his comments about youth players, he failed to notice? Vela.

Failing miserably to utilise the very good midfield he inherited, he decided it was the players fault and brought in:

Spearing
Rob Hall
Danns
Feeney
Moritz
Kamara
Trotter

Seven new midfielders, that fail to improve what we already had. Only Danns, is decent on that list. Even Freedman himself said the players aren't good enough! So by his own admission he's shit in the transfer market.

Being balanced isn't always the height of intellectual discourse, some issues are black and white. DF was a poor manager tactically and in the transfer market.

[bobo the clown]

^^ You forgot Owen Garvan.

Freedman got some stuff right, the loans of Dawson and the Juke just to name a couple.

Just not enough and not enough to cover up his mistakes or his personality.

There, that's balanced.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

I ignored it because I try to avoid pointless, time consuming internet debates that never resolve.

They tend to be provoked by generalisation.

signing Feeney and Danns doesn't redeem DF at all, they're not the special players in that midfield.

So now half the midfield isn't special? Only, you said:

did he inherit an exceptional/good midfield?
2, yes, the one that is playing now -which is very good for this division

Seems peculiar to wriggle sideways out of that one. Your subsequent assertions on what he inherited and bought ignore the most pertinent real-world consideration of the last two years - finance. For instance, it became clear that under FFP we couldn't afford the wages Coyle had pledged to (unemployed thirtysomething) Keith Andrews, so we needed to get at least a percentage of them off the bill.

Freedman was forced by finance to shop at the cheap end of the market. As noted by Worthy, he chopped 60% off the wage bill. Had he had more money to spend (on, say, Craig Dawson at the back and Lukas Jutkiewicz up front) we might have had more chance. Not much more, because he's still not a good manager, but he was definitely working under restrictions. That's all I'm saying: that circumstance has to be considered. Was John McGovern terrible at transfers?

Being balanced isn't always the height of intellectual discourse, some issues are black and white. DF was a poor manager tactically and in the transfer market.

If I wanted to witness the height of intellectual discourse, I'd look elsewhere, but I'm glad you've upgraded him from "terrible" to "poor". I'd still argue he deserves better than that - and that his tactics were far poorer than his transfers - but it'll do for me.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

^^ You forgot Owen Garvan.

Freedman got some stuff right, the loans of Dawson and the Juke just to name a couple.

Just not enough and not enough to cover up his mistakes or his personality.

There, that's balanced.

And I'd agree with that.

[thebish]

^^ You forgot Owen Garvan.

Freedman got some stuff right, the loans of Dawson and the Juke just to name a couple.

how DARE!!!!! you defend him!!! arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!! the internet will explode!!!!!!!

[Spartan2]

I ignored it because I try to avoid pointless, time consuming internet debates that never resolve.

They tend to be provoked by generalisation.

signing Feeney and Danns doesn't redeem DF at all, they're not the special players in that midfield.

So now half the midfield isn't special? Only, you said:

did he inherit an exceptional/good midfield?
2, yes, the one that is playing now -which is very good for this division

Seems peculiar to wriggle sideways out of that one. Your subsequent assertions on what he inherited and bought ignore the most pertinent real-world consideration of the last two years - finance. For instance, it became clear that under FFP we couldn't afford the wages Coyle had pledged to (unemployed thirtysomething) Keith Andrews, so we needed to get at least a percentage of them off the bill.

Freedman was forced by finance to shop at the cheap end of the market. As noted by Worthy, he chopped 60% off the wage bill. Had he had more money to spend (on, say, Craig Dawson at the back and Lukas Jutkiewicz up front) we might have had more chance. Not much more, because he's still not a good manager, but he was definitely working under restrictions. That's all I'm saying: that circumstance has to be considered. Was John McGovern terrible at transfers?

Being balanced isn't always the height of intellectual discourse, some issues are black and white. DF was a poor manager tactically and in the transfer market.

If I wanted to witness the height of intellectual discourse, I'd look elsewhere, but I'm glad you've upgraded him from "terrible" to "poor". I'd still argue he deserves better than that - and that his tactics were far poorer than his transfers - but it'll do for me.

I'm not wriggling out of anything. You can have a very good midfield, with three exceptional players, one decent one and one average. The manager who brought in the latter two does not get credit for the quality of that midfield.

The finances defence doesn't hold water, almost all clubs and managers have to budget. A good way to do so is by not spending on eight midfielders that are by and large, worse than the ones you inherited.

This debate is so pointless, you seem to think your nuanced, balanced view point depicts a decent?, okay? manager, I disagree. I think to be fair to DF, all things considered, he was complete wank.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

I think to be fair to DF, all things considered, he was complete wank.

Fair enough. Or not, as the case may be. As you say, it's pointless when you've already made up your mind. I've clearly stated several times that I think he was a poor manager.

[TKIZ!]

^^ You forgot Owen Garvan.

Freedman got some stuff right, the loans of Dawson and the Juke just to name a couple.

how DARE!!!!! you defend him!!! arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!! the internet will explode!!!!!!!

[jaffka]

We could do with formulating a scale to rate people.

It could then be used to find out how far apart people are in their opinions.

[Worthy4England]

The finances defence doesn't hold water.

The correlation between finances and how good your team is, is fairly constant. Yes there are well financed teams that do shite and there are poorly financed teams that do well for a period, but generally, there's a fair correlation between spending money and the quality of player you can attract.

You're right that he didn't make the most of the resources we had. But I don't think anyone's disagreeing that he's a bit shit? Reality is he finished 7th and 14th. Lenny's current run-rate would have us in 10th right now, in 13th over a full year last season and 9th the year we finished 7th...sorta right between the two...

[jaffka]

It got progressively shitter under Duggie though, that shit to the point of no return where he was looking for the bullet.

Let's see how we respond against those wannabes.

Where is the match thread anyway?

[Worthy4England]

It got progressively shitter under Duggie though, that shit to the point of no return where he was looking for the bullet.

Let's see how we respond against those wannabes.

Where is the match thread anyway?

I agree and as with Coyle, I'd have probably flirted him earlier.

I think Enoch was looking to start the match thread?

[jaffka]

It got progressively shitter under Duggie though, that shit to the point of no return where he was looking for the bullet.

Let's see how we respond against those wannabes.

Where is the match thread anyway?

I agree and as with Coyle, I'd have probably flirted him earlier.

I think Enoch was looking to start the match thread?

If Enoch starts a match thread I will buy a machete and cut his feckin hands off.

[Worthy4England]

It got progressively shitter under Duggie though, that shit to the point of no return where he was looking for the bullet.

Let's see how we respond against those wannabes.

Where is the match thread anyway?

I agree and as with Coyle, I'd have probably flirted him earlier.

I think Enoch was looking to start the match thread?

If Enoch starts a match thread I will buy a machete and cut his feckin hands off.

Maybe it needs that special touch from someone with a 100% record then.

[Montreal Wanderer]

It got progressively shitter under Duggie though, that shit to the point of no return where he was looking for the bullet.

Let's see how we respond against those wannabes.

Where is the match thread anyway?

I agree and as with Coyle, I'd have probably flirted him earlier.

I think Enoch was looking to start the match thread?

Flirted? You tease.

[jaffka]

It got progressively shitter under Duggie though, that shit to the point of no return where he was looking for the bullet.

Let's see how we respond against those wannabes.

Where is the match thread anyway?

I agree and as with Coyle, I'd have probably flirted him earlier.

I think Enoch was looking to start the match thread?

If Enoch starts a match thread I will buy a machete and cut his feckin hands off.

Maybe it needs that special touch from someone with a 100% record then.

Beaten to it.

I think Bruce has a good percentage on his threads.

[Worthy4England]

^^ I was on about the Liverpool replay thread.

[Enoch]

I don't do cup games, they're just a distraction.

I'm a business end kinda guy.

[thebish]

according to the MailOnline - Stoke and Fiorentina are interested in Chungy - Fiorentina could "swoop" IF one of their players buggers off to chelsea... Stoke might swoop early to avoid missing out (though - not THAT early as it is already Jan 29th!!)

according to the BeN Lennon has made actual quotes about the twelfth most searched for Traore - the one from Burkino Faso:

"We've spoken to his representatives,

"We may or may not get something done this week.

"He's been away at the Africa Cup of Nations but I think he's back around now.

"I'd be hopeful of getting that done. We definitely need some bodies in because we're putting square pegs in round holes at the minute."