The Great Art Debate

[Prufrock]

Tango's quoted it. It's a park, and from the angle I showed, I can see that. Still rubbish though. Melancholy? My arse. Modern art, s'like wine over £20...MASSIVE WANKER CON.

[boltonboris]

You can see that that shit table is somehow a park?

Is that because you want to, or you genuinely do?

[boltonboris]

I sometimes think that some of the modern artists take the piss for a laugh..

"I'll glue that bit there.. Then I'll blu-tac that onto that.. Then I'll weld the shit outta that bit there.. Then I'm gonna tell people it signifies the brittleness of their world and how their souls are screaming out for love, just to see if anybody actually takes it in and agrees"

[Bruce Rioja]

I sometimes think that some of the modern artists take the piss for a laugh..

"I'll glue that bit there.. Then I'll blu-tac that onto that.. Then I'll weld the shit outta that bit there.. Then I'm gonna tell people it signifies the brittleness of their world and how their souls are screaming out for love, just to see if anybody actually takes it in and agrees"

The difference, as it appears to me, Boris, is that if it were you or I that entered the same exhibit then we'd be a chancer on the make. Say you've been to art college however then you are one to which one must 'engage'.

[thebish]

as I said earlier, the photos of this artwork don't do much for me - probably, in part, because it is supposed to be seen 3-d and "live" - I suspect it is designed to be walked through...

however - the arguments that crop up are kind of a mini-synopsis of this whole thread..

1. It not being an accurate and identifiable representation of a "thing/object" we can instantly name.. ("what is it?")
2. It not being useful
3. It being summat any old cobbler could knock together

all of which are questions about what IS art.

As some of us have argued over the dozens of pages herein - art is more than mere representation of an object (that's a painting of an apple and I can tell it's an apple) - art is more than making something "useful" (what is it for?) - and art is more than technical skill. Art is more (even) than the aim of creating something that people "like".

[boltonboris]

I sometimes think that some of the modern artists take the piss for a laugh..

"I'll glue that bit there.. Then I'll blu-tac that onto that.. Then I'll weld the shit outta that bit there.. Then I'm gonna tell people it signifies the brittleness of their world and how their souls are screaming out for love, just to see if anybody actually takes it in and agrees"

The difference, as it appears to me, Boris, is that if it were you or I that entered the same exhibit then we'd be a chancer on the make. Say you've been to art college however then you are one to which one must 'engage'.

Maybe I should start reciting poetry in a beret, then become hooked on heroin to help connect with my inner demons.. Then I can sell any old shite

[boltonboris]

as I said earlier, the photos of this artwork don't do much for me - probably, in part, because it is supposed to be seen 3-d and "live" - I suspect it is designed to be walked through...

however - the arguments that crop up are kind of a mini-synopsis of this whole thread..

1. It not being an accurate and identifiable representation of a "thing/object" we can instantly name.. ("what is it?")
2. It not being useful
3. It being summat any old cobbler could knock together

all of which are questions about what IS art.

As some of us have argued over the dozens of pages herein - art is more than mere representation of an object (that's a painting of an apple and I can tell it's an apple) - art is more than making something "useful" (what is it for?) - and art is more than technical skill. Art is more (even) than the aim of creating something that people "like".

So then.... What exactly is it?

[Gary the Enfield]

If I had the money I'd buy it.

Then I'd cut it up and make something useful.

this piece of art doesn't really float my boat - maybe the photos don't do it justice...

but.. the world would be a poorer place if everything's value were judged by a standard of "usefulness"

If you cut this thing up then you'd have several 'works of art' and could coin it in.

Ah, but instead of cutting it up you 'de-constructed' it, you'd make even more money.

[thebish]

as I said earlier, the photos of this artwork don't do much for me - probably, in part, because it is supposed to be seen 3-d and "live" - I suspect it is designed to be walked through...

however - the arguments that crop up are kind of a mini-synopsis of this whole thread..

1. It not being an accurate and identifiable representation of a "thing/object" we can instantly name.. ("what is it?")
2. It not being useful
3. It being summat any old cobbler could knock together

all of which are questions about what IS art.

As some of us have argued over the dozens of pages herein - art is more than mere representation of an object (that's a painting of an apple and I can tell it's an apple) - art is more than making something "useful" (what is it for?) - and art is more than technical skill. Art is more (even) than the aim of creating something that people "like".

So then.... What exactly is it?

[thebish]

I sometimes think that some of the modern artists take the piss for a laugh..

"I'll glue that bit there.. Then I'll blu-tac that onto that.. Then I'll weld the shit outta that bit there.. Then I'm gonna tell people it signifies the brittleness of their world and how their souls are screaming out for love, just to see if anybody actually takes it in and agrees"

The difference, as it appears to me, Boris, is that if it were you or I that entered the same exhibit then we'd be a chancer on the make. Say you've been to art college however then you are one to which one must 'engage'.

Maybe I should start reciting poetry in a beret, then become hooked on heroin to help connect with my inner demons.. Then I can sell any old shite

why don't you? is it because a little bit of you acknowledges that it would all be a huge risk to your livelihood because it is not as easy as you make out?

[boltonboris]

It's a serious option.. But the cost of heroin is pretty expensive nowadays.

Apparently

[thebish]

It's a serious option.. But the cost of heroin is pretty expensive nowadays.

Apparently

small price to pay for the reward of conning multimillionaire pretentious wankers out of their wads of cash, surely?

[boltonboris]

But then I'd become a pretentious wanker with wads of cash, who's hooked on heroin..

I need to weigh up the pro's and con's

[TANGODANCER]

The question that most occurs to me is not so much with chancer artists but the people who decide these "creations" are unique and praiseworthy. I mean, the artist presumably has to tell them what it's all about or they'd be just as clueless as most of us appear to be.

" Now then, Miss Emin,what have we here? I see a tent with a lot of bits of paper with names on. What exactly is the agenda here?"

" Well, erm, the short description is I shagged em all! The long explanation is that the tent is me and my internal conflict, guilt and confusion that I can remember all their names, and the tent flap is an invitation to people to come inside my head; some to experience worry see if they're in there, and some to experience indignation if I missed them out."

"Amazing!"

[William the White]

The question that most occurs to me is not so much with chancer artists but the people who decide these "creations" are unique and praiseworthy. I mean, the artist presumably has to tell them what it's all about or they'd be just as clueless as most of us appear to be.

" Now then, Miss Emin,what have we here? I see a tent with a lot of bits of paper with names on. What exactly is the agenda here?"

" Well, erm, the short description is I shagged em all! The long explanation is that the tent is me and my internal conflict, guilt and confusion that I can remember all their names, and the tent flap is an invitation to people to come inside my head; some to experience worry see if they're in there, and some to experience indignation if I missed them out."

"Amazing!"

At last - the real reason for tango's indignation... The puzzle finally solved...

[thebish]

The question that most occurs to me is not so much with chancer artists but the people who decide these "creations" are unique and praiseworthy.

surely they are not that much different from the people who decide these "creations" are crap and worthy of derision?

[Prufrock]

You can see that that shit table is somehow a park?

Is that because you want to, or you genuinely do?

I can see the open green space, few trees. I think it is a clever trick. I'm not sure it says anything, or moves anybody and the 'melancholy urban park' and 'lyrically' autumnal is pretentious psychobabble.

Most, though not all, or the modern art I've ever seen is a masssssssive con. S'like bottles of wine that cost more than about £20. Hirst and his mates must have been pissing themselves laughing:

1. Find some rich guy with more money than sense, ask him if he likes your breathtaking new art work
2. When he says, "No, it's shit", just sigh knowingly, shake your head and re-assure him that it's not his fault, that he just doesn't 'get' it.
3. Wait for him, in a desperate bid to be seen to 'get' things cool and trendy, to suddenly exclaim how of course he gets it, he is a savant, a sophisticate, not a pleb, he sees the statement on modern society of a f*cking shark in formaldehyde, and how you simply must let him buy it off you for £500,000.
4. Take payment of £500,000 taking extra special care not to laugh in his face. The daft prick.

Isn't just modern art though, people bum Picasso. When I went to the Louvre they had an exhibition of his scetches. 9/10 of them were utter pish.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Isn't just modern art though, people bum Picasso. When I went to the Louvre they had an exhibition of his scetches. 9/10 of them were utter pish.

Ha, some would say Picasso is modern art!

I'm not sure about bumming him, but from not getting Picasso at all a few years ago, he's become one of my favourites.

Can't beat a man who loved attractive women and good food and was a genuinely creative innovator all the way into his eighties.

Look up some of David Douglas Duncan's photos of him to get a look a Picasso the cheeky genius at work.

[William the White]

Isn't just modern art though, people bum Picasso. When I went to the Louvre they had an exhibition of his scetches. 9/10 of them were utter pish.

This ranks with your dismissal of Shakespeare as a comic writer - utter pish of the oceanic quantity... Still... Better to utter spectacular idiocies - it shows ambition, at least.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Isn't just modern art though, people bum Picasso. When I went to the Louvre they had an exhibition of his scetches. 9/10 of them were utter pish.

This ranks with your dismissal of Shakespeare as a comic writer - utter pish of the oceanic quantity... Still... Better to utter spectacular idiocies - it shows ambition, at least.

Prufrock tends to be open to changing his mind in the face of evidence/a helpful nudge in the right direction.

I'm confident that's what will happen here, too.