Snog, Marry, Avoid: Summer 2023 Transfer Window

[Worthy4England]

The thing is with Dapo and Shoretire both need to play from a wide forward position. Dapo couldn’t do the number 10 role and neither could Shoretire. That role has a high burden on it including pressing and that football brain to take the ball in tight spaces and make the play. It’s sometimes a run at teams with it but often isn’t that.

I’m not a big Shoretire fan but when he worked it was that false number 9 and effectively dropping into those holes in front of full backs. In our system that only works when a team leaves the space which is rare.

So again it comes down to not playing the system that would accommodate these players.

You don't like him because he's inexperienced and short!

As we've agreed in the near past though, if we can't sign the wing-backs to improve us, we'll HAVE to use Wide forwards

If we played a 343 or 433 I’d say the view on Shoretire is different. I don’t think he’s close to ready for a number 10 role in the system we actually play.

TBF, what we actually play has changed and adapted between seasons and during the course of seasons. I think we're all assuming that our "set formation" is some sort of 3-5-2ish, but there's no guarantee that's what we stay with, unless Evatt has ever said "this is it, I'm not shifting...

I mean the notion in some windows was that we were recruiting to be able to accommodate a switch to other formations, rather than having a "set" one...

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Missed this one
CARDIFF

Striker Connor Wickham and Northern Ireland winger Gavin Whyte are among the players leaving Cardiff City when their contracts expire on 30 June.

An £8m signing for Sunderland in 2011, 30-year-old Wickham joined Cardiff on a short-term deal in February and scored one goal in 12 appearances. Whyte, 27, signed from Oxford United in 2019 but found game-time limited.

Goalkeeper Dillon Phillips and Tom Sang, who has played in midfield and defence, have also left Cardiff.

Cardiff also confirmed they have offered new contracts to Wales forward Mark Harris, left-back Joel Bagan and midfielder Eli King.

At under-21 level, the Championship club have activated options to extend the contracts of Cameron Antwi, Raheem Conte, Kieron Evans, Caleb Hughes, Ryan Kavanagh and Matt Turner.

Jac Clay, Taylor Jones, Jack Leahy, Aidan MacNamara and Owen Pritchard will depart at the end of the month.

[boltonboris]

The thing is with Dapo and Shoretire both need to play from a wide forward position. Dapo couldn’t do the number 10 role and neither could Shoretire. That role has a high burden on it including pressing and that football brain to take the ball in tight spaces and make the play. It’s sometimes a run at teams with it but often isn’t that.

I’m not a big Shoretire fan but when he worked it was that false number 9 and effectively dropping into those holes in front of full backs. In our system that only works when a team leaves the space which is rare.

So again it comes down to not playing the system that would accommodate these players.

You don't like him because he's inexperienced and short!

As we've agreed in the near past though, if we can't sign the wing-backs to improve us, we'll HAVE to use Wide forwards

If we played a 343 or 433 I’d say the view on Shoretire is different. I don’t think he’s close to ready for a number 10 role in the system we actually play.

That's because the system we play doesn't have one!

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

If we played a 343 or 433 I’d say the view on Shoretire is different. I don’t think he’s close to ready for a number 10 role in the system we actually play.

That's because the system we play doesn't have one!

Yeah, I'd agree with that. Way I saw it, we tried Shola at 10 but he was better as one of the two forwards dropping off; then we wheeled Sheehan back in to sit deeper, behind (usually) Morley and Dempsey. This coincided with Sexy's legs going so with him too old and Shola too young, we didn't really have a 10 to speak of, so we tweaked the system a little. Inverted the triangle, even.

Course, all systems are only start points, this ain't no table football. But it did seem that the broad shape outline changed slightly in spring.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Posh Josh: looks like Peterborough are signing our old RWB Josh Emmanuel, who resurfaced at Grimsby after falling off the radar at Hull due to a debilitating illness: https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football ... p-29492152

Posh also linked with Romony Crichlow, the LCB vaguely linked with us by a man-bun

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

also missed this one
WATFORD

The experienced trio of Craig Cathcart, Tom Cleverley and Dan Gosling are in talks about new deals with Watford.

Meanwhile, Britt Assombalonga and Leandro Bacuna have been released. Assombalonga, 30, returned to the club in January and made 11 appearances, but the additional 12-month option on his contract has not been triggered. Former Aston Villa midfielder and Curacao international Bacuna made 14 Championship appearances for Watford after moving to Vicarage Road in December.

...and that is now all 48 D2/D3 clubs have made their announcements...

[sonicthewhite]

If we want Bonis then £300k is the amount needed;

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/2 ... lee-bonis/

[boltonboris]

For a striker on a goal a game, it doesn't seem much. Strikers are pretty easy to shift on and we could profit from that. The question is, do we have room for him?

Suppose it hinges on Bod signing (or not)

[GhostoftheBok]

Hold on mucker. Flair is no longer called flair? When did that happen? WTF's it called now?

Patterns are great. As long as the ones you're using are delivering what you need them to, enough times to reach what you're trying to achieve. When they're not doing that, because someone has countered your patterns (as we see with the "low block" more than we'd like), then you either need better patterns or things that aren't part of any pattern and are difficult to counter. I might call that last bit flair or je ne sais quois.

For me, we need to weave some of that, not just in our "change it off the bench" options, but in our baseline and DNA. I suspect IE thinks we're doing that, my observations are maybe a little, but nowhere near enough.

'Flair' isn't really a term you hear that much from anyone below 40.

There have always been two sides to "great football", endeavour and genius. We lack genius.

What we have is a really good platform of proper footballers who work hard. We've got a particularly well-bred, nicely groomed and technically proficient carthorse for whom we need a tiara.

[Worthy4England]

Hold on mucker. Flair is no longer called flair? When did that happen? WTF's it called now?

Patterns are great. As long as the ones you're using are delivering what you need them to, enough times to reach what you're trying to achieve. When they're not doing that, because someone has countered your patterns (as we see with the "low block" more than we'd like), then you either need better patterns or things that aren't part of any pattern and are difficult to counter. I might call that last bit flair or je ne sais quois.

For me, we need to weave some of that, not just in our "change it off the bench" options, but in our baseline and DNA. I suspect IE thinks we're doing that, my observations are maybe a little, but nowhere near enough.

'Flair' isn't really a term you hear that much from anyone below 40.

There have always been two sides to "great football", endeavour and genius. We lack genius.

What we have is a really good platform of proper footballers who work hard. We've got a particularly well-bred, nicely groomed and technically proficient carthorse for whom we need a tiara.

Genius? Instead of flair!?!?! You under 40's don't half have some fking neck!

[GhostoftheBok]

Genius? Instead of flair!?!?! You under 40's don't half have some fking neck!

Na, I am indeed under 40 (just about), but I'm very much a "flair" man. Genius was meant more generally, players who can do the unexpected with a football that most players can't manage - flair is more about your one-on-one skillset. Often they're in the same package, but not always. Others may see that differently, I don't know. Genius was also used with an intentional bit of hyperbole...call it my flair at work.

Pirlo and De Bruyne are both geniuses, but they're not really flair players.

Obviously genius is relative to our level. In the kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed man is king and all that. In League One, a "genius" player probably wouldn't even get into a Premier League squad, but we are where we are.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

It's an interesting semantic discussion. 'Cos what I think you're both getting at is the somewhat untrainable 'vision' to see things others don't, to do the unexpected - it's not necessarily part of a system or a pattern of play, but the ability to spot (or create) a weakness... to drop a shoulder or ping a pass.

[BWFC_Insane]

It's an interesting semantic discussion. 'Cos what I think you're both getting at is the somewhat untrainable 'vision' to see things others don't, to do the unexpected - it's not necessarily part of a system or a pattern of play, but the ability to spot (or create) a weakness... to drop a shoulder or ping a pass.

The main thing is pace, power and direct running. That is something we lack and is a prerequisite for me in modern football.

Whether that be a forward or someone out wide or ideally both its a weakness we've had. You can't just knock the ball out to someone and say 'get down the line and in behind' we've not had that option really. Bar Bradley. Who wasn't ideal at it.

Its not even that they need to win footraces though that helps its more moving on the ball at speed without needing 5 touches to get the thing under control and being able to and wanting to commit players. When we go backwards and shuffle the ball like a hot potato we need a couple of players who WANT it and want to make something happen.

[GhostoftheBok]

Yeah, I'd agree with that. Way I saw it, we tried Shola at 10 but he was better as one of the two forwards dropping off; then we wheeled Sheehan back in to sit deeper, behind (usually) Morley and Dempsey. This coincided with Sexy's legs going so with him too old and Shola too young, we didn't really have a 10 to speak of, so we tweaked the system a little. Inverted the triangle, even.

Course, all systems are only start points, this ain't no table football. But it did seem that the broad shape outline changed slightly in spring.

I think the important part is that Evatt keeps trying to make a more orthodox 10 work in certain games.

It's largely about what overloads you can form in build up and that depends on your opponent.

It's worth noting that we've lost all Evatt's "drop off" forwards this summer. Kacha and Nlundulu were asked to form overloads in midfield by dropping off a front two to give us 4 in midfield vs a 3. Shoretire was part of that selection (the preferred one) when Evatt needed the option and then played as a midfield 10 against different shapes.

What Evatt has said since he got here is that he wants tactical options and that won't be complete without a #10 and at least one Nlundulu type forward who can drop into midfield to form overloads.

We can overcome it a bit if we pick up a keeper who can do build up. That way one of the 3 centre backs can step into midfield (we've seen the evolution of that with Stones as a midfielder at City, where it works in reverse) to give us that extra body and the strikers can stay high, or we can form a 5 in the middle if we want to. The wing-backs can then play high and maintain our numbers in the forward line to help us get out that way by doing the old "overload to isolate" bit.

We are really lacking tactical options as things stand, but you'd expect that when you've got so few players before transfers happen.

We need to be able to overload in midfield to help us break the presses that killed us last season. We need lads who can make things happen when we isolate them against a defender. I think we'd ideally like someone who can run in behind to stretch teams too.

[GhostoftheBok]

It's an interesting semantic discussion. 'Cos what I think you're both getting at is the somewhat untrainable 'vision' to see things others don't, to do the unexpected - it's not necessarily part of a system or a pattern of play, but the ability to spot (or create) a weakness... to drop a shoulder or ping a pass.

Yeah and I also agree with Insane that physical ability is a huge part of it.

If Saka were weak and slow he'd not be a top player, whatever he has between the ears. Adama Traore wouldn't be in the Prem at all without his physical attributes and nor would Michail Antonio. Jamie Vardy's pace makes that list too, since he lost it he's done essentially nothing at that level.

Pirlo's "Football is played with the brain, you feet are just tools" is true, but it's also an athletic competition and you need athletes.

We are very, very good tactically. Evatt needs options to win games, though.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Update on Josh Key and Archie Collins.

Exeter City manager Gary Caldwell says he expects Josh Key and Archie Collins to leave the club this summer. The homegrown pair are both out of contract this summer, having spent their entire careers at St James Park. As both players are under 24 Exeter will be entitled to a fee should they opt to leave for a new club.

"We've offered both of those players the best contract we could, I think it looks like both of them are going to be moving on," Caldwell told EFL Debate. "As yet I haven't had any contact with any other club for them, but they have intimated that they want to look and see what's out there, which is fine."

Background refresher:

You'd think Archie Collins and Josh Key would be on the list of people we'd spoken to.

Still haven't signed extensions... but they'd still cost.

https://www.devonlive.com/sport/footbal ... ey-8438041

"City would be entitled to compensation if they were to move on elsewhere. Key has been strongly rumoured to be joining Championship side Swansea City, captained by former Grecians youngster Matt Grimes. The chances of Collins staying though are understood to be much higher, with sources saying it about 50/50 he would sign the contract offered to him."

Explainer: Key is a RB/RWB. Collins can play 8, 10, wing or even up top, although he's 5ft9. Both are 23 and south-westerners (Torquay and Taunton), so it'd be a big wrench to leave - but that's what footballers face, and they're the right age to do it.

Both are worth the money. We may yet keep Sheehan, but Josh has shown that a player of his 'type' can be very useful for us in certain games and Collins is in that mould - though perhaps a bit more forward-thinking.

Josh Key, Remeao Hutton, Junior Tchamadeu...all options.

[Worthy4England]

It's an interesting semantic discussion. 'Cos what I think you're both getting at is the somewhat untrainable 'vision' to see things others don't, to do the unexpected - it's not necessarily part of a system or a pattern of play, but the ability to spot (or create) a weakness... to drop a shoulder or ping a pass.

Yes, for me, so it might involve pace, power and direct running, or it could equally involve the ability to dribble through and score/set up a gimme tap in, play the pass that no one's looking to defend, do a couple of keepy uppies with your back to goal, before flicking it over the defenders head as you turn past them and bury it in the bottom corner. "Oh Frankie, Frankie." Just as you say, DSB.

[GhostoftheBok]

Cameron Norman has left Newport.

[Bertie Wooster]

Cameron Norman has left Newport.

And....

[GhostoftheBok]

I'd guess that if we're to get any game-changing flair type players this summer it's most likely to be on loan. There aren't many real final third difference makers knocking about on frees, or available for the kind of money we pay.

Would we have a shot at either Ben Doak or Kaide Gordon from Liverpool, Ghost?

Dunno

Doak is clearly very talented, but he's maybe a year too young.

Gordon is one they want to get football into once he's 100%, that's been made pretty clear. Does his injury history mean they try to protect him from League One and look at Europe, though? That was the big debate at Utd around Shoretire and I think to an extent the physicality did show itself as taxing there.

Personally I think they'll end up working with Gordon themselves and then look for a loan option in January, but that's not knowledge it's a guess.