The Politics Thread

[Zulus Thousand of em]

Anyway.

That bastard Scargill.

[BWFC_Insane]

Beveridge intended that benefits would provide a safety net and the scheme was initially proposed as an insurance backed scheme.

The current level of benefits provides, as far as I can see, a far bigger net than was ever envisaged.

What galls me is that if I walk into Barclays bank next week and ask for 500 quid, their first question will be "Have you got an account with us", swiftly followed by "And have you paid into that account". Bottom line, no money for Bob.

The same does not apply to benefits, which is why at least one of my school mates has never worked a day in the last thirty years. He didn't have to. It Is also why I've dealt with a lot of young people whose parents actively discourage them from achieving at school or applying for jobs. They have never worked and fear the shame that having a working or achieving child would cause them.

Surely there cannot be a lot of parents who reason this way....

There aren't any in real life, of course. Only in the little therapist's imagination and the Daily Mail.

sadly, I'm afraid there are, i have met some of them. I don't believe there are hordes of them - they aren't even close to being a significant proportion of people on benefits - but to totally deny their existence is short-sighted/a little naive...

Bish nails it. There are those people around. However, the problem is that they aren't really representative of the majority but it doesn't fit the story people want to tell.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Is anyone watching the Benefits a Street programme?

I watched the first one on 4oD last night after reading very strongly negative commentary like this: http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/com ... 46773.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I didn't think it was all that bad in the sense that amongst all the incredibly dysfunctional surroundings I just felt sorry for the people and actually amazed that they still have the community spirit that they do.

[BWFC_Insane]

Is anyone watching the Benefits a Street programme?

I watched the first one on 4oD last night after reading very strongly negative commentary like this: http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/com ... 46773.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I didn't think it was all that bad in the sense that amongst all the incredibly dysfunctional surroundings I just felt sorry for the people and actually amazed that they still have the community spirit that they do.

Watched a bit of it yes. Last night had a group of "illegal immigrants" from Romania. 13 living in a house built for 4. Came over on the promise of £40 for 8 hours work a day. Then they were told it would be £10 for 17 hours work or something. Then two weeks in they were told they weren't being paid at all. All they wanted was to earn money for their family. Some of them ended up sleeping rough in London.

Quite illuminating given some of the negative press people like that get. I mean they had a far greater work ethic than most British people, were prepared to work for far less and my God did they go out of their way to "get a job" (which actually turned out not to be a job at all).

[bwfcdan94]

Yes I have watched both episodes and I must say I was pleased to see such great community spirit and I think that the poverty probably helped keep that community spirit going. Was amazed about how easily Danny and Fungi managed to steal/fraud money of people. I don't really know what that old dear was doing mind when there are people in Winson Green starving yet she wanted to get people to brighten up their street with flowers. I don't think it is as rough as the documentary portrayed and I am sure that there are quite a few people in Winson Green working and not on benefits as the programme suggests.

[BWFC_Insane]

End of the day I doubt anyone on this forum would swap their life for that of one of the people in that street.

How grim is an existence where you can't afford 50p to buy half a cup of washing powder?

And whilst people might kid themselves that they'd never end up in that position cos they're not *delete as appropriate bone-idle/scroungers/druggies/alkies/thickos/mentalists, all I'd say is, there but for the grace of God

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

End of the day I doubt anyone on this forum would swap their life for that of one of the people in that street.

How grim is an existence where you can't afford 50p to buy half a cup of washing powder?

And whilst people might kid themselves that they'd never end up in that position cos they're not *delete as appropriate bone-idle/scroungers/druggies/alkies/thickos/mentalists, all I'd say is, there but for the grace of God

I don't mean this as a cop-out, but the thing that is a total mindfuck for me about that street is that I wouldn't know what to do to address the problems even if I had extensive resources to throw at it. And that's just one street!

[thebish]

I can only conclude that Hoboh's coaches must have got horribly lost...

http://www.politics.co.uk/news/2014/01/ ... ived-in-uk

[Lost Leopard Spot]

I can only conclude that Hoboh's coaches must have got horribly lost...

http://www.politics.co.uk/news/2014/01/ ... ived-in-uk

I've no idea how many are here, but I know for a fact that there are at least 6 Romanians in Matlock/Matlock Bath alone. Why a supposed quarter of all Romanians in this country should be in one small town, I've also got no idea why. Plus I've got no idea what they were doing here last year, as all six work in the 'hotel industry', all six are known to the authorities (taxed, NI number etc.), but all six been here for over a year - I can only suppose they smuggled themselves in as Poles or Welsh or something...

[thebish]

I can only conclude that Hoboh's coaches must have got horribly lost...

http://www.politics.co.uk/news/2014/01/ ... ived-in-uk

I 've no idea how many are here, but I know for a fact that there are at least 6 Romanians in Matlock/Matlock Bath alone. Why a supposed quarter of all Romanians in this country should be in one small town, I've also got no idea why. Plus I've got no idea what they were doing here last year, as all six work in the 'hotel industry', all six are known to the authorities (taxed, NI number etc.), but all six been here for over a year.

i'm sure you must be aware that the article is talking about new ones since restrictions were lifted. if your 6 were there last year - then they are not 1/4 of the 24 mentioned here... i hope you are suitably reassured...

[Lost Leopard Spot]

I can only conclude that Hoboh's coaches must have got horribly lost...

http://www.politics.co.uk/news/2014/01/ ... ived-in-uk

I 've no idea how many are here, but I know for a fact that there are at least 6 Romanians in Matlock/Matlock Bath alone. Why a supposed quarter of all Romanians in this country should be in one small town, I've also got no idea why. Plus I've got no idea what they were doing here last year, as all six work in the 'hotel industry', all six are known to the authorities (taxed, NI number etc.), but all six been here for over a year.

i'm sure you must be aware that the article is talking about new ones since restrictions were lifted. if your 6 were there last year - then they are not 1/4 of the 24 mentioned here... i hope you are suitably reassured...

Thing is, they all went home for Christmas (well, five did). So they've recently arrived, again... So I'm perturbed on two levels: one for hosting a VAST* proportion all all Romanians in the UK, and two for not been able to understand what 1st January 2014 actually signified if low paid, unskilled Romanians were here before then.
* did you see what I did there, three of them are called Vas. To be honest, I'm not perturbed in the slightest - four of the feckers are friends of mine.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

I can only conclude that Hoboh's coaches must have got horribly lost...

http://www.politics.co.uk/news/2014/01/ ... ived-in-uk

I should say I lived in the NL for a year and was supposed to 'register' but never got round to it...

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Well I've discover the mystery of my Romanians: I just asked Vas. They paid to get in, the cheeky scrounging feckers, £3,000 was the approx going rate for a working visa prior to 2014 (or at least that's what Vas 1 paid back in 2008).

[Lost Leopard Spot]

...I've just started an argument in Romanian. Vas and Vaz are going at it hammer and tongs and the only four words I've understood have been 'visa', 'Cameron', 'Daily' & 'Mail'

[Bijou Bob]

End of the day I doubt anyone on this forum would swap their life for that of one of the people in that street.

How grim is an existence where you can't afford 50p to buy half a cup of washing powder?

And whilst people might kid themselves that they'd never end up in that position cos they're not *delete as appropriate bone-idle/scroungers/druggies/alkies/thickos/mentalists, all I'd say is, there but for the grace of God

I don't mean this as a cop-out, but the thing that is a total mindfuck for me about that street is that I wouldn't know what to do to address the problems even if I had extensive resources to throw at it. And that's just one street!

That's incredibly honest of you Mummy. While working in Salford, we put £53 million pounds of public funding into one small area of the city. As well as physical improvements and new facilities, we spent a seven figure sum generating new jobs, most of which were taken by people from outside the area. We just couldn't get locals to apply. One local warehouse owner sacked eight local guys and replaced them with Poles after sickness absences on the day of and after United matches reached epic proportions. His productivity went up by six hundred per cent.

I can tell you some really inspirational stories, but sadly they are far outweighed by the negative.

I'm some places and for some people, sadly there just isn't an answer. Is that down to institutionalised poverty or personal choice? I'm really not sure. Either way, it's incredibly sad.

[Zulus Thousand of em]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-25731328" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

... and there's more.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

That's incredibly honest of you Mummy. While working in Salford, we put £53 million pounds of public funding into one small area of the city. As well as physical improvements and new facilities, we spent a seven figure sum generating new jobs, most of which were taken by people from outside the area.

I do think as a thought experiment, we should ask politicians what they would do if money were no object and get them to fantasise 'upwards' rather than downwards for a change. The underlying reality of what is available wouldn't change, but it would be nice to change the tone every now and then.

[Worthy4England]

but when those trying to do the right thing by working for a living, are worse off than many that don't it's a poor, poor do. Time for a sizeable increase in the minimum wage - say 11%?

Is it feck. It's time for reductions in benefits and a further review as to what constitutes a plausible claim. How would you fund this increase to the minimum wage, Harry?

I seem to recall economic armeggedon being predicted when the National Minimum Wage was introduced. It didn't happen.

11% on NMW would equate to a maximum of 69p an hour on a base maximum of £6.31. That's hardly a decent wage @ £259 a week for 37 hours. It's a fecking pittance.

So I guess that would make the NMW £7. Which is pretty much what Osborne said today. To the penny.

I think I'm slightly disappointed that a Tory Chancellor seems to agree with Harry and me. (But mainly Harry )

[Bruce Rioja]

I think I'm slightly disappointed that a Tory Chancellor seems to agree with Harry and me. (But mainly Harry )

Me too.

[Worthy4England]

I think I'm slightly disappointed that a Tory Chancellor seems to agree with Harry and me. (But mainly Harry )

Me too.

In fairness, he did say in 2015 - which just incidentally coincides with an election year...He could then freeze it for 5 years afterwards, if they were to win the election.

I wouldn't of course be expecting any other vote buying handouts between now and then (that's meant to be apolitical, the other lot would do the same)

Does it have a major impact to your line of work Brucie or is it just the principle of it?