The Politics Thread

[Bijou Bob]

Personally I'm around a hundred quid a month worse off since last year. I haven't had a pay rise for the last three and the wonderfully alliterative Jeremy Hunt is trying to block my 1% rise scheduled for April.

Add in rising fuel costs and energy bills and whilst I'm not about to starve, I don't feel anywhere near as affluent as I once did.

Having said that, a good mate of mine was told on Friday that his company are losing 50% of the workforce. He finds out next week if he made the cut.

[Gooner Girl]

Personally I'm around a hundred quid a month worse off since last year. I haven't had a pay rise for the last three and the wonderfully alliterative Jeremy Hunt is trying to block my 1% rise scheduled for April.

Add in rising fuel costs and energy bills and whilst I'm not about to starve, I don't feel anywhere near as affluent as I once did.

Having said that, a good mate of mine was told on Friday that his company are losing 50% of the workforce. He finds out next week if he made the cut.

But you do get free massages and spend half your day on fb chat, so things aren't all bad at work, despite the lack of pay increase

[Bruce Rioja]

Worse off here. And even more noticeable as the recession coincided with us having children and thus me dropping a fair few hours at work.

See - this is exactly why I think these claims as to whether or not peoples standards of living have increased or decreased solely in line with earnings v inflation are absolute bollocks because they can't possibly take into consideration changes in the circumstances of individuals. For GG the last recession meant her losing money due to life-enriching choices that she and Mr GG made by having the twins. For me, the falling price of property meant that the gap between the value of the house that I lived in and that of the house that I wanted (ie this one) had narrowed to such a point that it made it easily affordable due to my income remaining the same. In terms of lifestyle I feel much better off for having moved. As regards my finances, I have no idea whether my earnings have kept up with inflation, Bish, as I've no idea as to what the current inflation level is. What I do know is what my income is and what my fixed costs are, and, like Enoch, I live well within the boundaries of those means.

[thebish]

Worse off here. And even more noticeable as the recession coincided with us having children and thus me dropping a fair few hours at work.

See - this is exactly why I think these claims as to whether or not peoples standards of living have increased or decreased solely in line with earnings v inflation are absolute bollocks because they can't possibly take into consideration changes in the circumstances of individuals. For GG the last recession meant her losing money due to life-enriching choices that she and Mr GG made by having the twins. For me, the falling price of property meant that the gap between the value of the house that I lived in and that of the house that I wanted (ie this one) had narrowed to such a point that it made it easily affordable due to my income remaining the same. In terms of lifestyle I feel much better off for having moved. As regards my finances, I have no idea whether my earnings have kept up with inflation, Bish, as I've no idea as to what the current inflation level is. What I do know is what my income is and what my fixed costs are, and, like Enoch, I live well within the boundaries of those means.

my guess is that your income (pay increases) have not kept pace with the increase in your outgoings - particularly petrol, energy bills, shopping bills... unless you have had better than average pay increases - and i have a half memory that you told us you hadn't in a previous discussion about public sector wages...

this is now the govt measures "Standard of Living". The tories are telling us that apart from the top 10% - their wage increases have outpaced their increases in outgoings...

the thing is - this is bollox. for most people - wage increases have not outstripped inflation. Unlike you and me who earn enough to have a cushion - those who were living at the edge feel this quite sharply... you and I can still afford to do the same things we used to - probably because we are making savings elsewhere or not saving as much - so we don't feel it...

if I am wrong - and your wages have kept pace with the rising cost of living or exceeded it - then you are doing very well.

[Bruce Rioja]

my guess is that your income (pay increases) have not kept pace with the increase in your outgoings - particularly petrol, energy bills, shopping bills... unless you have had better than average pay increases - and i have a half memory that you told us you hadn't in a previous discussion about public sector wages...

As I recall, bish, my gripe was, and still is, that our company has out-performed the rest of the group by a fecking mile this FY, yet once again this April we'll receive the group pay rise rather than one that reflects our achievements. We'll deliver record figures, once again, and will bail out the rest of the group.

As regards my outgoings I incur no car costs (other than for the tax, which has actually gone down due to my new car having something called blue motion) my energy bills have definitely gone up and I shall have a look at that, but I really haven't noticed any change in my shopping bill at all.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

That said - a rising number of foodbanks are supporting people in work - in the precarious way so many are. Zero hours contracts. Part time jobs. Minimum wage.

What are the numbers on this?

Bish - does this accord with your experience?

[thebish]

That said - a rising number of foodbanks are supporting people in work - in the precarious way so many are. Zero hours contracts. Part time jobs. Minimum wage.

What are the numbers on this?

Bish - does this accord with your experience?

we don't keep local stats on personal circumstances, so it's only anecdotal - but (as I said before) - we get a real mix of clients... many of them do have jobs - but in Dartmouth this is very likely cleaning work or other seasonal tourist-related work which is not secure and not well paid. we also get pensioners who don't claim what they should - stubborn pride? - and would rather feed their cat and survive themselves on digestive biscuits.. we also get blokes whose relationship has broken down and the ex-wife gets the house with the kids in it - and he slowly falls off a cliff, ending up in a B&B somewhere or a flat he can't afford...

[William the White]

That said - a rising number of foodbanks are supporting people in work - in the precarious way so many are. Zero hours contracts. Part time jobs. Minimum wage.

What are the numbers on this?

Bish - does this accord with your experience?

we don't keep local stats on personal circumstances, so it's only anecdotal - but (as I said before) - we get a real mix of clients... many of them do have jobs - but in Dartmouth this is very likely cleaning work or other seasonal tourist-related work which is not secure and not well paid. we also get pensioners who don't claim what they should - stubborn pride? - and would rather feed their cat and survive themselves on digestive biscuits.. we also get blokes whose relationship has broken down and the ex-wife gets the house with the kids in it - and he slowly falls off a cliff, ending up in a B&B somewhere or a flat he can't afford...

I think it's going to be very difficult to find reliable stats, mummy, but any brief internet search finds organisations connected with poverty action telling the same story of the growth of foodbank use, and the problem of working poor. Benefis delays and zero hours contracts would, I think, be two major causes of this.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

I think it's going to be very difficult to find reliable stats, mummy, but any brief internet search finds organisations connected with poverty action telling the same story of the growth of foodbank use, and the problem of working poor. Benefis delays and zero hours contracts would, I think, be two major causes of this.

I am strongly against zero hours contracts and think they are exploitative, but linking them and foodbanks without a solid reason to is the sort of spurious stuff that doesn't move the discussion on - so too talking about the minimum wage as a driver in this context if you haven't got the faintest idea how many people using food banks are working fulltime on minimum wage.

[William the White]

I think it's going to be very difficult to find reliable stats, mummy, but any brief internet search finds organisations connected with poverty action telling the same story of the growth of foodbank use, and the problem of working poor. Benefis delays and zero hours contracts would, I think, be two major causes of this.

I am strongly against zero hours contracts and think they are exploitative, but linking them and foodbanks without a solid reason too is the sort of spurious stuff that doesn't move the discussion on - so too talking about the minimum wage as a driver in this context if you haven't got the faintest idea how many people using food banks are working fulltime on minimum wage.

Who do you think should be collecting these stats?

[Bruce Rioja]

Who do you think should be collecting these stats?

Surely, the very people that decide as to who does and doesn't have a valid claim, no?

[Lost Leopard Spot]

The sheer moral morass one has to swim through just to make a minor point about being worse off in Cameron's (and indeed Clegg's) Britain is mind numbing. There are sharks out there... which include Gove, Branson, and a whole host of c*nts... and they are eating us. I'm sorry, if you don't have visible nibbles on your extremities it's because you've been swallowed whole into the Borg.

[thebish]

Who do you think should be collecting these stats?

Surely, the very people that decide as to who does and doesn't have a valid claim, no?

interestingly... the JobCentre (ie. govt body) refers people to foodbanks - for various reasons (mostly to do with benefit delays or - as i suggested before - the abolition of the social fund and no facility for emergency payments)

there USED to be a form that the JobCentre used to record the reason for the referral - and the trussel trust used this as a way of coming up with reliable and credible statistics that the govt would have to respect..

however, the Dept of Work and pensions has now re-designed the form and the three boxes on the previous form which had enabled JobCentre Plus staff to indicate why they referred the person: because of benefit delay, benefit change, or refusal of crisis loan … have been removed. The vouchers no longer tell the Trussell trust why the person has been referred”.

now the govt - in the form of Ian Duncan Smith slate the Trussel Trust for not having reliable statistics on why people are referred... (the very information that the govt has just deliberately stopped collecting)

it doesn't take an especially seasoned cynic to join the dots...

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

I think it's going to be very difficult to find reliable stats, mummy, but any brief internet search finds organisations connected with poverty action telling the same story of the growth of foodbank use, and the problem of working poor. Benefis delays and zero hours contracts would, I think, be two major causes of this.

I am strongly against zero hours contracts and think they are exploitative, but linking them and foodbanks without a solid reason too is the sort of spurious stuff that doesn't move the discussion on - so too talking about the minimum wage as a driver in this context if you haven't got the faintest idea how many people using food banks are working fulltime on minimum wage.

Who do you think should be collecting these stats?

People who want to illustrate their entrenched political views with references to food banks.

[thebish]

I think it's going to be very difficult to find reliable stats, mummy, but any brief internet search finds organisations connected with poverty action telling the same story of the growth of foodbank use, and the problem of working poor. Benefis delays and zero hours contracts would, I think, be two major causes of this.

I am strongly against zero hours contracts and think they are exploitative, but linking them and foodbanks without a solid reason too is the sort of spurious stuff that doesn't move the discussion on - so too talking about the minimum wage as a driver in this context if you haven't got the faintest idea how many people using food banks are working fulltime on minimum wage.

Who do you think should be collecting these stats?

People who want to illustrate their entrenched political views with references to food banks.

hmmm... it doesn't help when the govt. deliberately stops collecting data and then accuses foodbanks of not having the data that they could only have access to if the govt collected it...

[Bruce Rioja]

Can one of you name the last person in Britain that starved to death?

[Montreal Wanderer]

Can one of you name the last person in Britain that starved to death?

I'm not one of them (and it won't count) but I'll go with Hamzah Khan.

[Bruce Rioja]

Has the context escaped you, Monty? We can all conduct a Google search.

[William the White]

I think it's going to be very difficult to find reliable stats, mummy, but any brief internet search finds organisations connected with poverty action telling the same story of the growth of foodbank use, and the problem of working poor. Benefis delays and zero hours contracts would, I think, be two major causes of this.

I am strongly against zero hours contracts and think they are exploitative, but linking them and foodbanks without a solid reason too is the sort of spurious stuff that doesn't move the discussion on - so too talking about the minimum wage as a driver in this context if you haven't got the faintest idea how many people using food banks are working fulltime on minimum wage.

Who do you think should be collecting these stats?

People who want to illustrate their entrenched political views with references to food banks.

If you mean me, my views have always been on the left, but certainly not entrenched. They have gone from a vapid social democracy, to anarchism, to a particularly vile version of dogmatic Trotskyism, to the Labour Party, and standing for council election (and failing to win, thank FFT!) to the guy with the fairly non-entrenched position of wanting PR and a party uniting socialist and green ideas able to form a coherent opposition to the current dominant ideology espoused by all major parties. I have in addition squeezed in CND and other anti-war campaigns, significant trade union activity, fatherhood and a lot of reading.

Entrenched? Less so than Douglas Haig, I suggest. Or i suppose, I put it you...

And, seemingly, squeezed into the top ten percent of salary earners in the country. Which came as a surprise to me but didn't make me want to vote Tory.

[William the White]

Has the context escaped you, Monty? We can all conduct a Google search.

And we can all ask pugnacious rhetorical questions (and sulk when they're answered).