Do we need a defensive coach?

[BWFC_Insane]

It has been said recently that Coyle and his coaches do not work on shape or defensive drills. They let players go out and express themselves, Keeganesque style.

It's all very well picking attacking lineups and we probably have to accept that we are going to concede goals sometimes. But nobody can tell me the defensive side of our game is well organised or drilled. The back four are a shambles and yes they don't always get protection but equally they let in soft goals unrelated to midfield protection and increasingly are making silly mistakes.

We've played good sides but even against QPR first half our back four almost contrived to hand them goals a couple of times.

To use a Coyle phrase, accepting that our back four will sometimes be exposed, I still think we are conceding a lot of goals when actually our midfield are back and covering and it's just slack play from the defence.

So should we get a coach in to drill the back four and team in general on how to organise themselves when we haven't got the ball?

[Peter Thompson]

Yes without a doubt - but equally we also need a new goalkeeping coach !

[Beefheart]

Yes without a doubt - but equally we also need a new goalkeeping coach !

Do we still have Fred Barber?

[Prufrock]

It's surprising how few teams actually bother with a defensive coach. I think it is such an easy way to improve things. There is no point 'drilling the back four' though. You defend as a team, and if there are occasions where the back four are defending with no protection then there are bigger problems. The problem we have is no-one in midfield or up front seems to actually have a clue what they are supposed to be doing when we don't have the ball. I'm not having that Petrov isn't supposed to be tracking back helping Robinson, but if he isn't the left sided central midfielder should be, and yesterday Mark Davies clearly wasn't. Just basic organisation would help massively.

[Armchair Wanderer]

From the title I thought you were asking whether we should sack OC and bring in a more defensive "coach". I'd have said no to that question.

[Lord Kangana]

Its amazing what three straight defeats to three of the richest clubs in the world will do to you.

[BWFC_Insane]

Its amazing what three straight defeats to three of the richest clubs in the world will do to you.

Or 8 defeats in 9.

Clearly whoever we are playing we need to be a bit more solid and a bit less easy to score against!

[norm the jedi]

Its amazing what three straight defeats to three of the richest clubs in the world will do to you.

Or 8 defeats in 9.

Clearly whoever we are playing we need to be a bit more solid and a bit less easy to score against!

Well if we're going back to last season why are we leaving out the Carling cup win off Macclesfield this term...

Clinging on to the post Wembley poor run as evidence of deepening malaise is a bit daft imv.. There was a summer in between, personnel changes etc.. leave last Season where it is and move forward..

Since fixtures were posted in the Summer and we were up against last seasons top six and two promoted teams in the first 8 games we were always going to struggle to get more than a few points until October.. .. As it stands I'd take 5 points from those first 8 games as OK and we have three with Norwich and Arse offering potential ... Getting beat off world class players is not enjoyable but it's hardly reason for the level of undiluted mitherin' on here. We aren't competing with the top 6, get a moan on if we don't compete with the bottom half because that's where we are..

[officer_dibble]

Well we can't defend crosses, either stopping them at source, or dealing with them once 'air-born'. Corners as well...actually there is a thread in that...

[boltonboris]

It's surprising how few teams actually bother with a defensive coach. I think it is such an easy way to improve things. There is no point 'drilling the back four' though.

Disagree mate, there were occasions yesterday when we ended up in a 4 v 4 situation with the ball down the flanks (which happens). The full-backs quite often did the right things, by tucking in and staying narrow in order to force the ball into a less dangerous wide area. After that, there's nowt else you can do about the winger being better than the full-back and skinning him. That just come down to ability and nothing tactical.

Where we then fell short was the positioning of the other defenders. Knight, so often left a massive gaping hole right in the corridor for the ball to be crossed into (if you leave these gaps, even the shittest players can whip a dangerous low ball in). Boyata also failed to get goalside a couple of times and was punished by Rooney on one of them. Cahill was outsmarted by Hernandez, but then anybody would with his movement.

It's obvious that we're susceptible to attacks in wide areas, particularly because our wingers actually play as wide strikers. But this can be stopped with some hard work on the training ground. Simple as.

Besides, you don't have to do one type of defensive tactic, you can do a few. Stoke don't have defenders THAT much better than ours, but their actual defence is a million times better than ours because their back 4 are drilled.

[Bruce Rioja]

So, if we have a defensive coach and an attacking coach, how does the priority split work at training? We've all done attackers v defenders in training

[BWFC_Insane]

So, if we have a defensive coach and an attacking coach, how does the priority split work at training? We've all done attackers v defenders in training

Good question. I just feel we never look well drilled defensively like as is mentioned above Stoke tend to. And shock horror Stoke play 4-4-2 usually!

[Prufrock]

It's surprising how few teams actually bother with a defensive coach. I think it is such an easy way to improve things. There is no point 'drilling the back four' though.

Disagree mate, there were occasions yesterday when we ended up in a 4 v 4 situation with the ball down the flanks (which happens). The full-backs quite often did the right things, by tucking in and staying narrow in order to force the ball into a less dangerous wide area. After that, there's nowt else you can do about the winger being better than the full-back and skinning him. That just come down to ability and nothing tactical.

Where we then fell short was the positioning of the other defenders. Knight, so often left a massive gaping hole right in the corridor for the ball to be crossed into (if you leave these gaps, even the shittest players can whip a dangerous low ball in). Boyata also failed to get goalside a couple of times and was punished by Rooney on one of them. Cahill was outsmarted by Hernandez, but then anybody would with his movement.

It's obvious that we're susceptible to attacks in wide areas, particularly because our wingers actually play as wide strikers. But this can be stopped with some hard work on the training ground. Simple as.

Besides, you don't have to do one type of defensive tactic, you can do a few. Stoke don't have defenders THAT much better than ours, but their actual defence is a million times better than ours because their back 4 are drilled.

All I'm saying is that 'defensive coach' and 'drilling the back four' sound like you are going to take the back four and Jussi out whilst the rest piss about flicking each others ears, and sort it. I've no problem with focussing on defending as long as it is ina game situation with the midfield defending as well. In terms of the full backs, I've pretty much said the same on another thread. Their first goal is a case in point for what I mean. Hernandez's movement was top drawer, and completely baffled Cahill, but what made it possible was Rooney's surging run from deep. If he hadn't made that run, Boyata could have come across behind Cahill, Cahill could have cut out the near post ball, Boyata the one behind Cahill, danger over. As it happens, Rooney made that run, nobody tracked him, nobody communicated, so Boyata was drawn to him and Cahill was left one on one with that slippery little bastard. There is no point coaching the back four without coaching the midfield at the same time IMO.

[BWFC_Insane]

See I think once you let folk have time to pick out a cross when you are trying to deal with the runs and movement of Rooney and Hernandez then you are in big trouble! When you are facing those two, pressure on the ball in midfield and out wide is crucial. A good through ball or cross with their movement, sharpness and pace and even England centre halves like Cahill will struggle!

[BwfcDan]

I suggest instead of getting a new defensive coach, we get a decent pair of fullbacks... Obviously we can't do that now... Gonna be interesting from now until January...

In fact, we can still sign free transfers. I'm currently without a club, I could do a better job than Paul Robinson with my eyes closed. Gonna give the club a call this afternoon.

[officer_dibble]

Whats the point in coyle signing any more defenders he doesnt play the ones he has signed!?

[BwfcDan]

Whats the point in coyle signing any more defenders he doesnt play the ones he has signed!?

Because our fullback's are about as good as AIDS?

[Lofthouse Lower]

Is Lawrenson available?

[Ianmooreslovechild]

No we need a bus that we can park infront of goal against the bigger clubs.It could replace the outsize chez longue and the footstool we currently employ at the back

[aussie_wanderer]

i would play steinson left back , robbo not upto it