New Manager Thread

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Re: New Manager Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Jun 17, 2020 2:00 pm

Harry Genshaw wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:58 pm
There was a brief spell under Hill when we played some lovely football and created several chances each match. Under Parky, I'd almost forgotten that football could be like that. Ricketts seems to have a reputation amongst Shrews fans as overly cautious. I'll take winning football over good football any day but it would be lovely if we could have both for once.
Comes down to having coherent recruitment - doesn't happen overnight. Recruit to systems and styles and I think overtime like Swansea did you can cultivate a way of playing throughout the club.

Ricketts is impressive to listen to though his 29% win record at Shrews is a worry is it not?

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Re: New Manager Thread

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Wed Jun 17, 2020 3:04 pm

As Harry suggests, comments from some Shrews fans suggest they wouldn’t be distraught. “Stifling safety-first football” was one phrase. Hmm.

Couple of details from Ilesy’s update.
“A small group of managers have been earmarked already – a number which is thought to include Barrow's highly-rated boss Ian Evatt – but no formal interview process has yet begun and is not expected to do so this week.“ For the record, this contradicts Nicko’s assertion that Bowyer has already been interviewed - although it depend whether you include “sounding out” as an interview.

Also:
“ It may be that a decision is delayed until a playing budget can be finalised, and that may only happen once the club know for certain if the EFL are to introduce salary caps next season.”
This seems slightly odd. Aren’t we under embargo anyway? Surely that would be below the cap? Or might the cap push the punitive embargo restriction further down?

One more thing:
“Wanderers are currently working on a retained list and could be in a position to announce which players are being offered new deals by this time next week. The process is not thought to hinge on an incoming manager.”

This is telling (as is the interview with Remi Matthews in which he says he has no idea if he will be offered a deal). But not that new for incoming managers to have someone else’s retain/release list to deal with: Mike Jeffrey was released the day Rioch arrived. The players are being released, not shot through the head - see for example Wheater catching Parky’s eye and getting signed back on.

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Re: New Manager Thread

Post by Harry Genshaw » Wed Jun 17, 2020 3:30 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 2:00 pm
Comes down to having coherent recruitment - doesn't happen overnight. Recruit to systems and styles and I think overtime like Swansea did you can cultivate a way of playing throughout the club.
A whole fundamental shift is one thing but I liked the good words Ryan Lowe got from Bury and Plymouth fans and many L2 clubs. His whole approach seems to be attack minded and playing on the front foot. He turned both clubs around in a season where they outscored most of their rivals.

Sadly, I dont think he'll be coming to us but someone with a similar mindset would be nice.
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Re: New Manager Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Jun 17, 2020 3:36 pm

Harry Genshaw wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 3:30 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 2:00 pm
Comes down to having coherent recruitment - doesn't happen overnight. Recruit to systems and styles and I think overtime like Swansea did you can cultivate a way of playing throughout the club.
A whole fundamental shift is one thing but I liked the good words Ryan Lowe got from Bury and Plymouth fans and many L2 clubs. His whole approach seems to be attack minded and playing on the front foot. He turned both clubs around in a season where they outscored most of their rivals.

Sadly, I dont think he'll be coming to us but someone with a similar mindset would be nice.
Doesn't matter what mindset a manager has without the players. I'd say its a lot easier to build a team that is tough to break down and organised that achieves some results than one that players good football whilst also achieving results and its why often the better footballing sides come down to either cash or a long term coherent recruitment policy. Managers become pigeonholed often because of their situation more than anything else.

I've no doubt Hill wanted to play nice football last season and to an extent with Crawford and Bridcutt early doors he managed it. But when we had different players available we neither played good football nor achieved any results and the situation quickly became unbearable.

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Re: New Manager Thread

Post by Prufrock » Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:28 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:58 pm
Prufrock wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:58 pm
Perhaps but I imagine that's a consequence of the natural conflict of the set up being built after his arrival. It's not the same as getting in a head coach to with in the system where you appoint them with the intention you'll all be on the same page.

Ricketts the bookies favourite now. I'd be delighted but I suspect that's then following the money rather than any inside track.
I agree with that - you need a connected system. But there is a big difference between Allardyce setting up a recruitment team to his own spec identifying players to his own criteria and deciding ultimately who to sign and a manager being consulted on these things without a final say.

Not saying either is wrong, they are highly dependent on the individuals and how things work. Who knows - Owen Coyle might have been ideal for this system - perhaps as a coach rather than someone spending millions on rubbish he'd have worked out. Same for Sammy Lee. And the other way round, Freedman might have been ideal as a DoF - putting ideas in place rather than having to get players to buy into them.
Absolutely, there are plenty of managers that system wouldn't be for, but my point would be that even if you go down a DoF route with a had coach that head coach is still going to have a big say on recruitment even if it isn't the typical "carte blanche".

Coyle was a motivator nothing more. No director of football is going to stop you getting to 70 mins, taking Muamba off and losing 2-0. Or finding a winning formula then going back to 442 with the slowest front two ever.

Lee more sympathy but still not the leadership. He was a coach not a head coach. Recruitment was poor but not the only difference between 7th and disaster.
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Re: New Manager Thread

Post by Prufrock » Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:29 pm

Agree that for all the rest of it players are by far the biggest factor. The sine qua non.
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Re: New Manager Thread

Post by The_Gun » Thu Jun 18, 2020 8:50 am

Although it sounds funny, now might actually be a 'good' time for us to be under embargo. There are going to be a shitload of players released and available on frees, and most other clubs are now likely to be in equally perilous positions financially. So perhaps Tobias and the new coach have a chance of building a competitive team quite quickly in Div 4.

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Re: New Manager Thread

Post by Prufrock » Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:45 am

If Tobias really does have the ultimate say on recruitment then next year's promotion winners will be Phoenix's Knights.
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Re: New Manager Thread

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:00 am

The_Gun wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 8:50 am
Although it sounds funny, now might actually be a 'good' time for us to be under embargo. There are going to be a shitload of players released and available on frees, and most other clubs are now likely to be in equally perilous positions financially. So perhaps Tobias and the new coach have a chance of building a competitive team quite quickly in Div 4.
It's an interesting point.

Back in early May, EFL chairman Rick Parry said "we have 1,400 players coming out of contract in June." A quick bit of mental maths (1400 divided by 71 clubs, round that to 70) reveals that's just under 20 per club, which might sound a little inflated but he may be including over-18s released from Academies – and they might be some of our key targets if we're doing this Moneyball/fast-track thing.

The comparative lack of money in the COVID EFL should help reduce our poverty gap, as might the incoming salary cap. But it depends how harsh the embargo terms are – do we know? Does the league know? Was it decided, when we dropped into administration two levels higher, how the numbers might change per division? From the outside, and withdrawing our own personal involvement in this case, an embargo is hardly a punishment (or indeed fiscal rehabilitation) if the levels aren't notably lower than for clubs who haven't pulled the lever. Don't forget why the embargo was brought in – for clubs shedding debt and immediately emerging as powerhouses (pre-fairytale Leicester being the biggest example).

As you say, overall it probably helps us if the others haven't got a pot to piss in either; certainly we might (might) be one of the biggest pulls in D4, and that could even persuade some to drop down a division below the level their talents deserve. But on a wider scale, what worries me about the widespread poverty is that only the clubs with their own modern-day Golden Tits on the board might survive and thrive. Which, in its own way, leads to more speculation in a sport/business already too full of it. I don't have the answer there but it does worry me.

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Re: New Manager Thread

Post by TonyDomingos » Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:17 pm

Prufrock wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:45 am
If Tobias really does have the ultimate say on recruitment then next year's promotion winners will be Phoenix's Knights.

Three months of lockdown and that's the best you can come up with? :D
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Re: New Manager Thread

Post by The_Gun » Sat Jun 20, 2020 8:40 am

Ryan Lowe is now an even money favourite on Skybet (although I would doubt that is a particularly accurate market). Can't see it myself, unless he's really desperate to move back north.

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Re: New Manager Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Sat Jun 20, 2020 11:34 am

Prufrock wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:45 am
If Tobias really does have the ultimate say on recruitment then next year's promotion winners will be Phoenix's Knights.
I’m told if he gets his way it will be Sol Campbell..please god no!

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Re: New Manager Thread

Post by Harry Genshaw » Sat Jun 20, 2020 12:31 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 11:34 am
Prufrock wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:45 am
If Tobias really does have the ultimate say on recruitment then next year's promotion winners will be Phoenix's Knights.
I’m told if he gets his way it will be Sol Campbell..please god no!
I thought they fell out at Macclesfield?
He did well there considering their circumstances but I'd hope his time at Southend would rule him out of another job in anyones eyes
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Re: New Manager Thread

Post by nicholaldo » Sat Jun 20, 2020 4:49 pm

Harry Genshaw wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 12:31 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 11:34 am
Prufrock wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:45 am
If Tobias really does have the ultimate say on recruitment then next year's promotion winners will be Phoenix's Knights.
I’m told if he gets his way it will be Sol Campbell..please god no!
I thought they fell out at Macclesfield?
He did well there considering their circumstances but I'd hope his time at Southend would rule him out of another job in anyones eyes

To be fair, any manager who took that job on was doomed to fail. If it's to be held against him, I suppose it would be because his accepting of it might possibly be an example of him having poor judgement.

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Re: New Manager Thread

Post by Prufrock » Sat Jun 20, 2020 5:54 pm

He's a fecking nutjob. Hard hard pass for me. No more weirdos.
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Re: New Manager Thread

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Sat Jun 20, 2020 7:36 pm

Interestingly careful quote from Evatt on possibility of leaving Barrow. "At the end of the day, as it stands I’m Barrow’s manager and I’m just enjoying the time here now and what we’ve just achieved. I’m not really thinking about anything else at the moment. It’s the nature of the beast that when a club has success and when people are envious about what we’ve done and how we’ve done it then your best players and your manager are going to be linked elsewhere.”

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Re: New Manager Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:18 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 7:36 pm
Interestingly careful quote from Evatt on possibility of leaving Barrow. "At the end of the day, as it stands I’m Barrow’s manager and I’m just enjoying the time here now and what we’ve just achieved. I’m not really thinking about anything else at the moment. It’s the nature of the beast that when a club has success and when people are envious about what we’ve done and how we’ve done it then your best players and your manager are going to be linked elsewhere.”
He’s moved a fair bit in the odds today. Markets for league two managers don’t mean much but he went odds on. Interesting option. I do think he’s one who ticks a fair few boxes and is probably gettable.

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Re: New Manager Thread

Post by The_Gun » Sun Jun 21, 2020 8:57 am

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:18 pm
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 7:36 pm
Interestingly careful quote from Evatt on possibility of leaving Barrow. "At the end of the day, as it stands I’m Barrow’s manager and I’m just enjoying the time here now and what we’ve just achieved. I’m not really thinking about anything else at the moment. It’s the nature of the beast that when a club has success and when people are envious about what we’ve done and how we’ve done it then your best players and your manager are going to be linked elsewhere.”
He’s moved a fair bit in the odds today. Markets for league two managers don’t mean much but he went odds on. Interesting option. I do think he’s one who ticks a fair few boxes and is probably gettable.
A few people having tenners on would be enough to shift the odds massively in a market like that. Anyway, the Barrow fans have decided there's no chance he's joining us, so that's that.

https://www.barrowafc.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=27004

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Re: New Manager Thread

Post by Harry Genshaw » Sun Jun 21, 2020 2:07 pm

^ They make some reasonable points. Last time we took a manager from a club in the same division was the ill fated Freedman experiment. Much as he didn't want to leave Palace, we were offering substantially more wages and playing budget. It was a gamble worth taking for him.

I'd not be surprised if Evatt turned us down and waited for a better opportunity to come along. Equally, this may be the only chance he gets to take on a big ish club with potential to go further.

The compo required says to me that we'll look elsewhere.
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Re: New Manager Thread

Post by Abdoulaye's Twin » Sun Jun 21, 2020 2:11 pm

Jonno is a bit of cocky we're massive type. A bit of humility given our recent history wouldn't hurt...

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