Another fine mess Stanley (H) 29.2.2020 3pm KO

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Hoboh
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Re: Another fine mess Stanley (H) 29.2.2020 3pm KO

Post by Hoboh » Tue Mar 03, 2020 12:14 am

If you are in the sh one t and accept it you stay in the sh one t.
The manager simply is not good enough by any stretch of the imagination and thinking because of one reasonable 45mins and not conceding is turning a corner beggers belief.
Like most I expected us to be down at the bottom and more or less doomed this season but expected a fighting fist and something to think next season will be a whole new ball game and so far there is absolutely nothing to indicate it will be.

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Re: Another fine mess Stanley (H) 29.2.2020 3pm KO

Post by dave the minion » Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:32 am

Hoboh wrote:
Tue Mar 03, 2020 12:14 am
If you are in the sh one t and accept it you stay in the sh one t.
The manager simply is not good enough by any stretch of the imagination and thinking because of one reasonable 45mins and not conceding is turning a corner beggers belief.
Like most I expected us to be down at the bottom and more or less doomed this season but expected a fighting fist and something to think next season will be a whole new ball game and so far there is absolutely nothing to indicate it will be.
Nope, I'm sorry, I'm not buying any of this. Next season we will have found our level. Its up to us to build and play our way to a higher level again, but given where we've been its all we can expect. Do I like it - hell no, but do I accept it, yes I do Please don't forget virtually our whole squad is comprised of development kids or players from our competitors who can't get in their teams. Its no surprise we are struggling....

I've said it before and I'll say it again, if not Hill, then who? We are not an attractive proposition for anyone and there isn't a queue of high-calibre managers knocking on the door. When Hill came in most people were really pleased. Now, it isn't working, so we either persevere with it in the hopes of it turning round, or we change for another manager of a similar level, and that either will or won't work out. Changing the manager - when we are such a basket case of a club - isn't necessarily a magic wand to fix things. It could be, I'll give you that, but its no guarantee.
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Re: Another fine mess Stanley (H) 29.2.2020 3pm KO

Post by BWFC_Insane » Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:37 am

dave the minion wrote:
Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:32 am
Hoboh wrote:
Tue Mar 03, 2020 12:14 am
If you are in the sh one t and accept it you stay in the sh one t.
The manager simply is not good enough by any stretch of the imagination and thinking because of one reasonable 45mins and not conceding is turning a corner beggers belief.
Like most I expected us to be down at the bottom and more or less doomed this season but expected a fighting fist and something to think next season will be a whole new ball game and so far there is absolutely nothing to indicate it will be.
Nope, I'm sorry, I'm not buying any of this. Next season we will have found our level. Its up to us to build and play our way to a higher level again, but given where we've been its all we can expect. Do I like it - hell no, but do I accept it, yes I do Please don't forget virtually our whole squad is comprised of development kids or players from our competitors who can't get in their teams. Its no surprise we are struggling....

I've said it before and I'll say it again, if not Hill, then who? We are not an attractive proposition for anyone and there isn't a queue of high-calibre managers knocking on the door. When Hill came in most people were really pleased. Now, it isn't working, so we either persevere with it in the hopes of it turning round, or we change for another manager of a similar level, and that either will or won't work out. Changing the manager - when we are such a basket case of a club - isn't necessarily a magic wand to fix things. It could be, I'll give you that, but its no guarantee.
The team we had out on Saturday - sorry - but most of those players would get in the vast majority of league one sides. At least on reputation if not current form. But current form - perhaps is down to the coaching - maybe?

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Re: Another fine mess Stanley (H) 29.2.2020 3pm KO

Post by Bruce Rioja » Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:45 am

^^ With DtM on this. This idea that we've got some God given right to bounce straight back up next season is absolutely ridiculous. What's making people think we have? As I've mentioned before, even if the EFL gave us our points back we'd still be going down and deservedly so. We're absolutely bobbins and I don't see how next season's going to be all that different.
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Re: Another fine mess Stanley (H) 29.2.2020 3pm KO

Post by BWFC_Insane » Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:52 am

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:45 am
^^ With DtM on this. This idea that we've got some God given right to bounce straight back up next season is absolutely ridiculous. What's making people this way? As I've mentioned before, even if the EFL gave us our points back we'd still be going down and deservedly so. We're absolutely bobbins and I don't see how next season's going to be all that different.
Nobody has a god given right to anything. You earn it through good decisions, management and performances.

We've earned nothing this season and got nothing because inspite of assembling at times a reasonable squad, certainly based on their experience we've performed absymally. It is a question as to whether that is because inspite of seemingly good reputations all these players are indeed rubbish - or because the management and coaching is not up to it.

And the same will be next season - you can keep on making excuses for failure - or you can say that a good manager who take the responsibility on and improve where things are lacking. I'm all for realism - but we need to stop making excuses now - we're sliding into the bottom division. A league this club has only spent 1 season in its history in.

At some point the excuses need to end and a manager needs to bring it together create a spirit and make the right decisions. I would say for example, if we appointed Sam Allardyce tomorrow - we'd be almost nailed on certs for promotion next season IMHO. I realise that isn't going to happen - but the club has to find a way to get a team out on the pitch that wins a lot, lot, lot more games than it has been doing. We've spent a long time this season making excuses, many of which are valid. But now its time to stop being the victim and proactively get our shit together.

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Re: Another fine mess Stanley (H) 29.2.2020 3pm KO

Post by Bruce Rioja » Tue Mar 03, 2020 10:09 am

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:52 am
Bruce Rioja wrote:
Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:45 am
^^ With DtM on this. This idea that we've got some God given right to bounce straight back up next season is absolutely ridiculous. What's making people this way? As I've mentioned before, even if the EFL gave us our points back we'd still be going down and deservedly so. We're absolutely bobbins and I don't see how next season's going to be all that different.
Nobody has a god given right to anything. You earn it through good decisions, management and performances.

We've earned nothing this season and got nothing because inspite of assembling at times a reasonable squad, certainly based on their experience we've performed absymally.
Yes, that's my point.
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Re: Another fine mess Stanley (H) 29.2.2020 3pm KO

Post by BWFC_Insane » Tue Mar 03, 2020 10:54 am

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Tue Mar 03, 2020 10:09 am
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:52 am
Bruce Rioja wrote:
Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:45 am
^^ With DtM on this. This idea that we've got some God given right to bounce straight back up next season is absolutely ridiculous. What's making people this way? As I've mentioned before, even if the EFL gave us our points back we'd still be going down and deservedly so. We're absolutely bobbins and I don't see how next season's going to be all that different.
Nobody has a god given right to anything. You earn it through good decisions, management and performances.

We've earned nothing this season and got nothing because inspite of assembling at times a reasonable squad, certainly based on their experience we've performed absymally.
Yes, that's my point.
And we should expect better surely?

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Re: Another fine mess Stanley (H) 29.2.2020 3pm KO

Post by dave the minion » Tue Mar 03, 2020 11:09 am

We should certainly hope for better, but why expect better? Where exactly does the expectation come from? We've been mis-managed for years and it all came to a head last year when we very nearly went out of existence. Potential investors were few and far between, and one of them - only one - was prepared to support us. We know FV haven't got bottomless pockets, so we find ourselves in the position we are in now. Our team is made up of players that can't get into our competitors teams and we're under a strict emargo which limits our options - I don't buy that most of the squad would walk into other league 1 teams one bit. If thats the case, why the hell are they with us?

Christ, to put it in perspective, we couldn't even get a kit deal with a proper sportswear manufacturer - we really were/are rock-bottom.

A good manager would probably improve things, but where are we going to find one to join our circus? Show me a list of decent calibre managers who haven't got a better offer on the table who will be willing to join us and improve things for us.

If we had money then we might be able to tempt one of these unidentified saviours to join us, but we haven't got money. FV stepped in to save us from disappearing, but they haven't got the funds to throw at established managers (and before anyone has a pop at FV for this, remember there was a queue of exactly 1 other alternative, our friend Mr Bassini....). We could take a punt on an unknown/untested manager, which might work, but which also might not work. Who knows?

Sorry if people think I'm being a bit defeatist here, but I think I'm being realistic. I can't say I like it, but I personally don't see how we can expect to be any different?
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Re: Another fine mess Stanley (H) 29.2.2020 3pm KO

Post by BWFC_Insane » Tue Mar 03, 2020 11:15 am

dave the minion wrote:
Tue Mar 03, 2020 11:09 am
We should certainly hope for better, but why expect better? Where exactly does the expectation come from? We've been mis-managed for years and it all came to a head last year when we very nearly went out of existence. Potential investors were few and far between, and one of them - only one - was prepared to support us. We know FV haven't got bottomless pockets, so we find ourselves in the position we are in now. Our team is made up of players that can't get into our competitors teams and we're under a strict emargo which limits our options - I don't buy that most of the squad would walk into other league 1 teams one bit. If thats the case, why the hell are they with us?

Christ, to put it in perspective, we couldn't even get a kit deal with a proper sportswear manufacturer - we really were/are rock-bottom.

A good manager would probably improve things, but where are we going to find one to join our circus? Show me a list of decent calibre managers who haven't got a better offer on the table who will be willing to join us and improve things for us.

If we had money then we might be able to tempt one of these unidentified saviours to join us, but we haven't got money. FV stepped in to save us from disappearing, but they haven't got the funds to throw at established managers (and before anyone has a pop at FV for this, remember there was a queue of exactly 1 other alternative, our friend Mr Bassini....). We could take a punt on an unknown/untested manager, which might work, but which also might not work. Who knows?

Sorry if people think I'm being a bit defeatist here, but I think I'm being realistic. I can't say I like it, but I personally don't see how we can expect to be any different?
Realism is important and a lot there is true. But equally the alternative is to never have any expectation of things getting better. We've probably won about 10 games in the last 100 (something horrific like that). We should be improving now we have stable owenrship, especially as we're dropping into a division where our income should be close if not at the top. We need good management and good decisions to do well. Lets find a way of ensuring we do.....

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Re: Another fine mess Stanley (H) 29.2.2020 3pm KO

Post by Bruce Rioja » Tue Mar 03, 2020 11:20 am

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Mar 03, 2020 10:54 am
Bruce Rioja wrote:
Tue Mar 03, 2020 10:09 am
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:52 am
Bruce Rioja wrote:
Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:45 am
^^ With DtM on this. This idea that we've got some God given right to bounce straight back up next season is absolutely ridiculous. What's making people this way? As I've mentioned before, even if the EFL gave us our points back we'd still be going down and deservedly so. We're absolutely bobbins and I don't see how next season's going to be all that different.
Nobody has a god given right to anything. You earn it through good decisions, management and performances.

We've earned nothing this season and got nothing because inspite of assembling at times a reasonable squad, certainly based on their experience we've performed absymally.
Yes, that's my point.
And we should expect better surely?
No, I don't think we can 'expect' anything. We can hope for it / plan for it. That said, I've just read Hill's latest drivel about managing in a crisis. I rather think he'll find that Parky was the one who was working in a crisis. I'm sick to the back teeth of hearing from him.
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Re: Another fine mess Stanley (H) 29.2.2020 3pm KO

Post by Prufrock » Tue Mar 03, 2020 11:45 am

I was unconvinced by Hill from the start and remain so but I'm not buying this "well-known players" nonsense.

This squad is made up of: v small number of players we had last season as we got feebly relegated including Hobbs who's never fit and Murphy who couldn't even get in last year's team, a few kids of wildly varying quality and consistency, and beyond that exclusively players who were not just not wanted by their clubs, but weren't wanted by anyone else who might pay a wage/ fee. Plenty have had good spells in their careers but football is littered with players who do ok at one time for one club and then fade away.

Then add in the embargo and injuries and it's been v tough. I think Hillcroft can be criticised for many things but I don't think any manager would've got near to keeping us up this season. Certainly not if they'd had the luck with injuries we have also had (which I don't think Hill can be blamed for).
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Re: Another fine mess Stanley (H) 29.2.2020 3pm KO

Post by Hoboh » Thu Mar 05, 2020 12:03 am

dave the minion wrote:
Tue Mar 03, 2020 11:09 am
We should certainly hope for better, but why expect better? Where exactly does the expectation come from? We've been mis-managed for years and it all came to a head last year when we very nearly went out of existence. Potential investors were few and far between, and one of them - only one - was prepared to support us. We know FV haven't got bottomless pockets, so we find ourselves in the position we are in now. Our team is made up of players that can't get into our competitors teams and we're under a strict emargo which limits our options - I don't buy that most of the squad would walk into other league 1 teams one bit. If thats the case, why the hell are they with us?

Christ, to put it in perspective, we couldn't even get a kit deal with a proper sportswear manufacturer - we really were/are rock-bottom.

A good manager would probably improve things, but where are we going to find one to join our circus? Show me a list of decent calibre managers who haven't got a better offer on the table who will be willing to join us and improve things for us.

If we had money then we might be able to tempt one of these unidentified saviours to join us, but we haven't got money. FV stepped in to save us from disappearing, but they haven't got the funds to throw at established managers (and before anyone has a pop at FV for this, remember there was a queue of exactly 1 other alternative, our friend Mr Bassini....). We could take a punt on an unknown/untested manager, which might work, but which also might not work. Who knows?

Sorry if people think I'm being a bit defeatist here, but I think I'm being realistic. I can't say I like it, but I personally don't see how we can expect to be any different?
Our players don't walk into other league one teams, they get walked over by them!

Did I expect to stay up? No

Did I expect a team that would after the first half dozen games roll over and have it's belly tickled? No.
I mean come on, we have down to earth, hard as nails tells it how it is Hill in charge, no nonsense, no messing about, get in there lads do or die.

Then we woke up to a bloke who talks the talk but couldn't crawl never mind walk!

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