Who's the Rioch to Evatt's Neal?

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Slightly concerning that Markham and the Liverpool data mob are leading the process. I’m not convinced data sheets tell us who is a good leader and man manager. The qualities that made Big Sam so good. We can sort technical coaching but it’s about an ability to motivate players and build a culture for me.

I’d be astonished if Sharon isn’t on the interview board and assessing for feelz and vibez.

[The_Gun]

Slightly concerning that Markham and the Liverpool data mob are leading the process. I’m not convinced data sheets tell us who is a good leader and man manager. The qualities that made Big Sam so good. We can sort technical coaching but it’s about an ability to motivate players and build a culture for me.

Doesn’t sound like Ludonautics are leading on anything at Bolton. Purely supplying us with data if Iles is to be believed.

[Mar]

I agree I just don’t think a new manager coming in end of January should be judged on what happens up to May too much. If we aren’t right up there the season after then I will be having an issue.

And that’s not to say I don’t think it possible someone comes in and lifts us and gets us competing for the top 6. It’s possible. I just wouldn’t hold it against them if they didn’t. If we really struggled I might become a bit worried.

It's good that you're willing to give him time and not judge him on this season. I'm thinking along the same lines. I do expect us to at least challenge for the playoffs, even if we don't manage to get into them, and then from there its how we sign players, which may not necessarily solely down to the new manager, but it will be an indication of what we can expect going forward.

Right now I suspect most of the names on the list we are looking at 10th place or so finish and some changes in the summer. And those changes need to put us right in contention.

They are working with someone else’s squad and we know the squad is quite flawed. That will take time and more than a week of a window to sort.

Interestingly low bar.

Personally I'm hoping we'll push for the playoffs; I wouldn't want him sacked if we finish 7th but we're not miles behind and we should improve. We have good players and hopefully soon a good coach who can use them well. Yes, he might want/need one or two but we shouldn't be looking at a Year Zero ground-up rebuild.

Seems like Walters had a bee in his bonnet over losing to Oxford United and gave him the boot. Results like that happen, but I would imagine after being under not-so-supportive ownership that Schumacher may just fancy some Sharon-esque style support.

Yeah.
• If we believe the oatcake-botherer that our poster Frank Drebin was talking to at the airport, it sounds like Walters clashed with Schuey quite unprofessionally.
• Even if we don't believe that bit, given how quickly Pelach was appointed thereafter it feels like Walters - who had been appointed as technical director after Schumacher was made manager - was ready to pull the trigger.
• And it's also possible Walters had been persuading the Bet365-owning chairman to roll the dice again, given the wording of the sacking announcement ("After ongoing discussions with John Coates, we feel the time is right for a change in direction to bring success to the club.")

As you say, working with Markham and Sharon looks lovely compared to that.

Wasn't aware of the timing of Walters being added but that is an interesting piece of context to the puzzle as to why Schumacher was sacked. I'd imagine that Walters coming in as Schumacher's boss would've probably led to him wanting to lay down a marker to say 'look, i've done my part in steering the club'.

Walters prior to signing as technical director at Stoke, he was the Technical Director of Fleetwood Town and Waterford. He would've had roughly half a year working with Schumacher to work together and presumably the ear of the owner. Maybe he had something to do with Fleetwood's turn around in Feb 23 (4 wins in 5 after 6 defeats in 7), but since then Fleetwood got relegated (finishing 22nd after finishing 13th the season prior) under 3 managers (Scott Brown, Lee Johnson and ex Stoke alumni Charlie Adam). So it's not like Walters is some great indicator of great success through good manager acquisitions or decision making.

Presumably, Walters made a name for himself as a footballer and then used that to convince the Stoke owners he's the man for the job.

[BWFC_Insane]

Talk was that some on the board were pushing for Evans. These comments somewhat perhaps suggest that might be the case. I wonder who knows him?

I didn’t read it that way. I read it as the Steve Evans PLC sales department asking the CEO if they wanted to explore a market.

It was the part where he says ‘I know some of the very senior people there’….

[BWFC_Insane]

Slightly concerning that Markham and the Liverpool data mob are leading the process. I’m not convinced data sheets tell us who is a good leader and man manager. The qualities that made Big Sam so good. We can sort technical coaching but it’s about an ability to motivate players and build a culture for me.

Doesn’t sound like Ludonautics are leading on anything at Bolton. Purely supplying us with data if Iles is to be believed.

Iles has written that Markham is leading the process with input from Ian Graham. So sounds like whilst Sharon might make the decision they are the football input….

[jmjhb]

Slightly concerning that Markham and the Liverpool data mob are leading the process. I’m not convinced data sheets tell us who is a good leader and man manager. The qualities that made Big Sam so good. We can sort technical coaching but it’s about an ability to motivate players and build a culture for me.

That's news to me.

[The_Gun]

Slightly concerning that Markham and the Liverpool data mob are leading the process. I’m not convinced data sheets tell us who is a good leader and man manager. The qualities that made Big Sam so good. We can sort technical coaching but it’s about an ability to motivate players and build a culture for me.

Doesn’t sound like Ludonautics are leading on anything at Bolton. Purely supplying us with data if Iles is to be believed.

Iles has written that Markham is leading the process with input from Ian Graham. So sounds like whilst Sharon might make the decision they are the football input….

If you listen to the podcast the BN put out today, Iles definitely states Ludonautics are hands off even with regards to player recruitment.

[BWFC_Insane]

Slightly concerning that Markham and the Liverpool data mob are leading the process. I’m not convinced data sheets tell us who is a good leader and man manager. The qualities that made Big Sam so good. We can sort technical coaching but it’s about an ability to motivate players and build a culture for me.

Doesn’t sound like Ludonautics are leading on anything at Bolton. Purely supplying us with data if Iles is to be believed.

Iles has written that Markham is leading the process with input from Ian Graham. So sounds like whilst Sharon might make the decision they are the football input….

If you listen to the podcast the BN put out today, Iles definitely states Ludonautics are hands off even with regards to player recruitment.

From his article today.

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/2 ... -job-link/


Wanderers are in the process of establishing a shortlist of names with recruitment chief Chris Markham taking a lead role in the search. Ludonautics, the data firm which have established an official relationship with the club and are run by ex-Liverpool FC director of research, Ian Graham, are also giving advice on the potential

[jmjhb]

I did just see Wayne Rooney and Steve Evans coming to blows over the last pie on the hotel buffet though...

[Prufrock]

We're three points off the play offs with 20 games to go and the manager potted because that wasn't good enough.

The aim should absolute be play offs, and a play off loss would be about par for me from here.

If someone comes in and doesn't make that, I'm not going to be shouting for their head, they'll have had at best a week or so to bring players in, but there's no reason that shouldn't be a (realistic) target.

[Worthy4England]

Slightly concerning that Markham and the Liverpool data mob are leading the process. I’m not convinced data sheets tell us who is a good leader and man manager. The qualities that made Big Sam so good. We can sort technical coaching but it’s about an ability to motivate players and build a culture for me.

We can sort technical coaching? Have you seen the absolute state of our defending!

[boltonboris]

Data will be able to show which managers have done the best jobs per £ spent, style of play, teams average entries into the opposition box etc.

The interview process, references and diligence will reveal their mental attributes.

We'd be stupid to discount data for the sake of gut feeling and intangibles

[BWFC_Insane]

Data will be able to show which managers have done the best jobs per £ spent, style of play, teams average entries into the opposition box etc.

The interview process, references and diligence will reveal their mental attributes.

We'd be stupid to discount data for the sake of gut feeling and intangibles

I wouldn’t discount data but it’s a useful guide. I’ve recruited a lot and gut feel always trumps what the numbers say imho. If someone looks brilliant by the numbers but you just don’t get the feeling then you are almost certainly right in my experience.

I doubt data wonks could have predicted the best managers through history and I’m a big data evidence driven type. You just need to know what the limits are.

[Prufrock]

It's a sift surely. They'll make their decision based on the interview but data helps decide who gets in the room. Even then I'm sure it wouldn't rule out interviewing a Schumacher or whoever else.

Think that goes for the football side too. It's not football manager, it just helps narrow searches and unearth hidden diamonds. You still do an eye test, try to find out about their personality etc.

Fwiw I don't think the quality of recruitment has been a major issue. I think the issues have been tactical, and then as a result what we have recruited for, and too many injury gambles, rather than bad players. There aren't many in there I don't think are top half L1 players at worst now.

Top two next season should be very achievable with one full transfer window.

[boltonboris]

Data will be able to show which managers have done the best jobs per £ spent, style of play, teams average entries into the opposition box etc.

The interview process, references and diligence will reveal their mental attributes.

We'd be stupid to discount data for the sake of gut feeling and intangibles

I wouldn’t discount data but it’s a useful guide. I’ve recruited a lot and gut feel always trumps what the numbers say imho. If someone looks brilliant by the numbers but you just don’t get the feeling then you are almost certainly right in my experience.

I doubt data wonks could have predicted the best managers through history and I’m a big data evidence driven type. You just need to know what the limits are.

Same, but I use things like experience and track record, length of service etc which is data, but then my final decision is based on my instincts for the intangible stuff. Which is kind of what I'm getting at.

[Worthy4England]

It's a sift surely. They'll make their decision based on the interview but data helps decide who gets in the room. Even then I'm sure it wouldn't rule out interviewing a Schumacher or whoever else.

Think that goes for the football side too. It's not football manager, it just helps narrow searches and unearth hidden diamonds. You still do an eye test, try to find out about their personality etc.

Fwiw I don't think the quality of recruitment has been a major issue. I think the issues have been tactical, and then as a result what we have recruited for, and too many injury gambles, rather than bad players. There aren't many in there I don't think are top half L1 players at worst now.

Top two next season should be very achievable with one full transfer window.

Pretty sure you're right. We were gonna test 'em on cone deployment yesterday! I'd be stunned if they took Joe Bloggs wanting a step-up from his plumbing job. From my experience (obvs in a different job), we have dossiers on candidates. I really don't need convincing they are a pretty close fit. Not likely to be interviewing them with a desk in the way, more likely to be lunch or dinner...

Evatt wasn't a wrong pick at the start, really, just how it evolved. My concern is if Markham's leading it, we end up with another possession is everything, evangelist, who has significant blind spots to what's going on right there in front of them.

[GhostoftheBok]

Markham's job is to find what he's asked to find, whether that's by the manager or the board.

If he delivers a list of managers who all play the same style of football it's because that's what he's been told the club higher-ups want the playing identity to be.

The search criteria and your CV get you in the room. The interview gets you the job.

One sentence was the difference between Ole being our new manager and not. Literally one sentence. What the people doing the choosing react to, or don't, we'll probably never know - or not until years later.

[TonyDomingos]

One sentence was the difference between Ole being our new manager and not. Literally one sentence. What the people doing the choosing react to, or don't, we'll probably never know - or not until years later.

This sounds like a good game! I'll start:

"I will take Bolton United to the Championship."

[BWFC_Insane]

Markham's job is to find what he's asked to find, whether that's by the manager or the board.

If he delivers a list of managers who all play the same style of football it's because that's what he's been told the club higher-ups want the playing identity to be.

The search criteria and your CV get you in the room. The interview gets you the job.

One sentence was the difference between Ole being our new manager and not. Literally one sentence. What the people doing the choosing react to, or don't, we'll probably never know - or not until years later.

Roy Evans blew it when he mentioned signing a player who would cost a transfer fee.

I suspect that’s most good appointments are purely accidental in football.

[The_Gun]

Markham's job is to find what he's asked to find, whether that's by the manager or the board.

If he delivers a list of managers who all play the same style of football it's because that's what he's been told the club higher-ups want the playing identity to be.

The search criteria and your CV get you in the room. The interview gets you the job.

One sentence was the difference between Ole being our new manager and not. Literally one sentence. What the people doing the choosing react to, or don't, we'll probably never know - or not until years later.

Roy Evans blew it when he mentioned signing a player who would cost a transfer fee.

I suspect that’s most good appointments are purely accidental in football.

I doubt it. The smart clubs often make smart coaching picks.