The Politics Thread

[Worthy4England]

Define 'milk it' though. I think most of us (and I include the Super Rich especially in this) are going to have to decide what it is we want from the world with regard to how much things actually cost.

Want to live in a civilized, law-abiding society? That costs.

Want a healthy, skilled workforce? That costs.

Plus a million other ancilliary benefits that follow working in a country that, well, works, for the benefit of the majority. It isn't just to the benefit of the individual that individual benefit is solely reserved. It has an affect on us all.

If we're on "definitions" what is "Super Rich"...broadly.

I don't have any particular problem with the amount of tax I pay, I do have a problem with the way it's then spent (often)...

To give you a couple of fer instances - I don't mind ensuring pensioners get a better deal, I do object to having to pay for pensioners where some cnut has made off with the pension fund in dividends or in the case of governments and businesses not setting enough aside to pay for it.

I'm happy to pay my share of Tax, but I'm an easy target as I think it's my responsibility to pay it, so I declare it all and do so. I am pissed off when people think I should pay a larger share, when there's so many wankers still getting cash in hand at one end and offshoring it at the other end. The answer can not continue being "hit the (shrinking in volume) easy targets"

[BWFC_Insane]

Seems to me it's a choice between she who wants to shaft anyone with little money to their name and he who wants to shaft anyone with a half decent salary or lucky enough to have Bupa. Everyone should pay a a fair amount of tax and the government should spend it properly. As it stands none of that seems to be the case.

Its a choice between...

Reporter: Theresa how are you paying for the extra mental health nurses?
May: Well you see this is a choice about whether you want, strong and stable leadership from myself or chaos under Corbyn
Reporter: Well yes, but those nurses, how you paying for them?
May: Strong and stable leadership.
Reporter: Oh, ok. Very good.

OR

Reporter: Jeremy/Diane, how are you funding those police officers?
Diane: Welllllll, if you recruit one extra police officer per calendar year month and 64 a week, we think that will cost aboooouuuuuutttttttt £300.
Reporter: £300? Is that all?
Diane: No, ermm, I mean if we recruit some men and women, the costttt....the cosssttttt will be.....about......500billion
Reporter: £500billion, you've gone from £300 to £500 billion?
Diane: Ermmm well, the numbers are, the numbers are....
Jeremy: The numbers don't matter. Diane is doing a fantastic job. Lets go and sing songs and clap and hug. Oh Andy Burnham's celebrating in Manchester....he's bound to be dead keen to see me.

[Worthy4England]

The problem is, the interpretation of what you believe to be a cut-and-dried deal, by a cabal of people with no-one's interests but their own at heart, will screw us all over. Whether you ticked Leave or Remain.

I suppose little matters such as the 'sharing' of personal details on such a trivial matter of car ownership will not lead onto further regulation demanding more co-operation with the EU.
Next medical records, financial records and then........
Still it's all for the greater good eh!

I find it interesting how the right constantly will bring up civil liberties as an argument against the EU. Yet those same people will vote for a Theresa May led government. DOES. NOT. COMPUTE.

But as you yourself have said - Corbyn is unelectable (which I agree with) I actually think Milliband was unelectable too as it happens - so what's left?

The UKIP protest vote appears to be on the wane - not that I'd have voted for them anyhow.
LibDems pretty much got wiped last time

And the rest are non-entities. So it's still Tory v a very poor Labour.

So I either have to vote for tallest dwarf #1 - May - who's policies I mainly don't agree with or
tallest dwarf #2 - Corbyn - who's policies I think are undeliverable (albeit I'm struggling to think of the last policy commitment the Tories actually delivered on)

My ballot paper is more likely to contain "Charlie the Cartoon Cat" again, because I think he'd do a better job. It's way past time there was a "none of the above" option on the ballot paper.

Well I'd say May is equally "unelectable". Depending upon your definition of that word. She will be elected but is equally as unappealing as Jezza.

That is the depressing scenario we find ourselves in. Whether Corbyn supporters (and they are total and complete mentalists) like it or not, many traditional Labour voters will not vote Labour as they don't want to be seen to condone Corbyn or the direction of the party of late. Equally those who won't vote Labour will likely be as appalled as I am at the prospect of a vacuous and shape-shifting May being PM for another 5 years.

What the Corbyn fanatics can't get is that they are denying the likes of you and I, in fact probably near enough 75% of the electorate a meaningful choice. They are supplying a factional leader of a mainstream party and saying "there you go, there's your choice". What is worse, is, he's not even any good. Nor does he even seem like he's bothered about the dire situation the party is in.

Its about time our electoral system was overhauled, until then we are simply preserving the status quo of the two main parties and allowing a situation like this to occur. We can never have a Macron here (or equivalent) and that means that it just needs some nutters in either party to create this sort of depressing situation we have now.

Charlie the Cartoon Cat it is (again) then...

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

Seems to me it's a choice between she who wants to shaft anyone with little money to their name and he who wants to shaft anyone with a half decent salary or lucky enough to have Bupa. Everyone should pay a a fair amount of tax and the government should spend it properly. As it stands none of that seems to be the case.

Its a choice between...

Reporter: Theresa how are you paying for the extra mental health nurses?
May: Well you see this is a choice about whether you want, strong and stable leadership from myself or chaos under Corbyn
Reporter: Well yes, but those nurses, how you paying for them?
May: Strong and stable leadership.
Reporter: Oh, ok. Very good.

OR

Reporter: Jeremy/Diane, how are you funding those police officers?
Diane: Welllllll, if you recruit one extra police officer per calendar year month and 64 a week, we think that will cost aboooouuuuuutttttttt £300.
Reporter: £300? Is that all?
Diane: No, ermm, I mean if we recruit some men and women, the costttt....the cosssttttt will be.....about......500billion
Reporter: £500billion, you've gone from £300 to £500 billion?
Diane: Ermmm well, the numbers are, the numbers are....
Jeremy: The numbers don't matter. Diane is doing a fantastic job. Lets go and sing songs and clap and hug. Oh Andy Burnham's celebrating in Manchester....he's bound to be dead keen to see me.

Which is why I urge you all to vote for Independents, Greens and the Monster Raving Looney Party. That way you ensure neither of them can implement their foolishness unhindered.

[Hoboh]

The problem is, the interpretation of what you believe to be a cut-and-dried deal, by a cabal of people with no-one's interests but their own at heart, will screw us all over. Whether you ticked Leave or Remain.

I suppose little matters such as the 'sharing' of personal details on such a trivial matter of car ownership will not lead onto further regulation demanding more co-operation with the EU.
Next medical records, financial records and then........
Still it's all for the greater good eh!

There are already global deals on financial data to try and stop tax avoidance being in or out of the EU probably wouldn't alter that. Medical records, I'd be delighted if my local GP could access the ones from my local hospital (which they often can't). Car ownership, I'm struggling to see the issue with. Think you can look up Registered Keeper online?

Speed in France caught on a camera and from today the 'ticket' will arrive at yours.
Now just how, without a great deal of trouble and perhaps an appearance in a French court with the 'cough' compliance of the French authorities do you know that camera was correctly calibrated?
I used France as an example given their terrible reputation for 'fining foreign drivers' but it is EU wide.

[Hoboh]

Here's your problem BWFCi and this comment is not untypical in the Guardian.

The Labour Party in 2017 finds itself in the mire DESPITE Corbyn.
If around half of the of the 3.9m 2015 UKIP vote used to vote Labour, that's hardly JC's fault. Who's going to argue that fact?
The people responsible for the Labour Party's troubles today lies at the feet of TB, Mandy and Ali Campbell who sold the country down the river.
However, the Labour Party will easily exceed the 9.3m votes Milibland got in 2015 giving JC licence to run again in 2022
War in the Labour Party to throw out the Blairites resumes Monday 12.06.2017

Unless the moderate wing of Labour breaks ranks and forms a centre ground party that will attract many from the Liberals and soft Tory voters, it will die and that will be to the detriment of all of us.
I voted UKIP last time because of the EU, jobs done now I'm not bothered if they fade away, they never were a serious opposistion party, Labour on the other hand.......

[Hoboh]

Have you heard of CRS Hoboh? It's how much of the future will look as governments around the world look to control it's citizens more and more. EU or not it is coming...

Here have a read, this one is even better

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... -democracy

[Worthy4England]

The problem is, the interpretation of what you believe to be a cut-and-dried deal, by a cabal of people with no-one's interests but their own at heart, will screw us all over. Whether you ticked Leave or Remain.

I suppose little matters such as the 'sharing' of personal details on such a trivial matter of car ownership will not lead onto further regulation demanding more co-operation with the EU.
Next medical records, financial records and then........
Still it's all for the greater good eh!

There are already global deals on financial data to try and stop tax avoidance being in or out of the EU probably wouldn't alter that. Medical records, I'd be delighted if my local GP could access the ones from my local hospital (which they often can't). Car ownership, I'm struggling to see the issue with. Think you can look up Registered Keeper online?

Speed in France caught on a camera and from today the 'ticket' will arrive at yours.
Now just how, without a great deal of trouble and perhaps an appearance in a French court with the 'cough' compliance of the French authorities do you know that camera was correctly calibrated?
I used France as an example given their terrible reputation for 'fining foreign drivers' but it is EU wide.

You break the law, you should get done for it. Simple.

[BWFC_Insane]

Here's your problem BWFCi and this comment is not untypical in the Guardian.

The Labour Party in 2017 finds itself in the mire DESPITE Corbyn.
If around half of the of the 3.9m 2015 UKIP vote used to vote Labour, that's hardly JC's fault. Who's going to argue that fact?
The people responsible for the Labour Party's troubles today lies at the feet of TB, Mandy and Ali Campbell who sold the country down the river.
However, the Labour Party will easily exceed the 9.3m votes Milibland got in 2015 giving JC licence to run again in 2022
War in the Labour Party to throw out the Blairites resumes Monday 12.06.2017

Unless the moderate wing of Labour breaks ranks and forms a centre ground party that will attract many from the Liberals and soft Tory voters, it will die and that will be to the detriment of all of us.
I voted UKIP last time because of the EU, jobs done now I'm not bothered if they fade away, they never were a serious opposistion party, Labour on the other hand.......

Very hard for any new party to flourish in our system. Very, very hard. It doesn't need a breakaway party, these things will be cyclical. The mentalists who back Corbyn will eventually run out of steam. And also, there may not be a candidate following Corbyn that is so easy for them to unite behind.

[Montreal Wanderer]

The problem is, the interpretation of what you believe to be a cut-and-dried deal, by a cabal of people with no-one's interests but their own at heart, will screw us all over. Whether you ticked Leave or Remain.

I suppose little matters such as the 'sharing' of personal details on such a trivial matter of car ownership will not lead onto further regulation demanding more co-operation with the EU.
Next medical records, financial records and then........
Still it's all for the greater good eh!

There are already global deals on financial data to try and stop tax avoidance being in or out of the EU probably wouldn't alter that. Medical records, I'd be delighted if my local GP could access the ones from my local hospital (which they often can't). Car ownership, I'm struggling to see the issue with. Think you can look up Registered Keeper online?

In Quebec medical records are digitized and available to hospitals and CLSCs (clinics) across the province. I'm not sure the extent to which GPs access the system though I believe they can.

[Lord Kangana]

The problem is, the interpretation of what you believe to be a cut-and-dried deal, by a cabal of people with no-one's interests but their own at heart, will screw us all over. Whether you ticked Leave or Remain.

I suppose little matters such as the 'sharing' of personal details on such a trivial matter of car ownership will not lead onto further regulation demanding more co-operation with the EU.
Next medical records, financial records and then........
Still it's all for the greater good eh!

There are already global deals on financial data to try and stop tax avoidance being in or out of the EU probably wouldn't alter that. Medical records, I'd be delighted if my local GP could access the ones from my local hospital (which they often can't). Car ownership, I'm struggling to see the issue with. Think you can look up Registered Keeper online?

Speed in France caught on a camera and from today the 'ticket' will arrive at yours.
Now just how, without a great deal of trouble and perhaps an appearance in a French court with the 'cough' compliance of the French authorities do you know that camera was correctly calibrated?
I used France as an example given their terrible reputation for 'fining foreign drivers' but it is EU wide.

Where the f*ck have you invented this one from? I've had 2 speeding tickets in France, the first from 2012, both sent to my home address. They changed the law over 4 years ago. And by the way, if you're French and speed over here, the same thing happens. And the same all across Europe. You need to cut out the European paranoia you've got.

[Hoboh]

Where the f*ck have you invented this one from? I've had 2 speeding tickets in France, the first from 2012, both sent to my home address. They changed the law over 4 years ago. And by the way, if you're French and speed over here, the same thing happens. And the same all across Europe. You need to cut out the European paranoia you've got.

The rules surrounding the transference of penalty points that have been accrued abroad are quite complicated.
If a European police officer stops a British driver for a motoring offence, the officer can issue an on the spot fine and escort the motorist to a cash point. However, under current rules, if you are flashed by a speed camera in a foreign country, a fine cannot be enforced and no points will appear on your UK licence.
But, last year the European Parliament announced plans to crack down on driving offences committed on the continent, which will likely result in police across Europe being given access to the British DVLA database for the first time.
While the current government opposed the changes when they were first proposed in May 2014, the European Parliament overruled the UK’s opt out, which means the UK has until 2017 to comply.
Indeed, an EU directive on cross-border fines was unanimously approved in February this year, meaning UK drivers who commit speeding offences abroad could soon be pursued by European police even when they have returned home.

[Hoboh]

Here's your problem BWFCi and this comment is not untypical in the Guardian.

The Labour Party in 2017 finds itself in the mire DESPITE Corbyn.
If around half of the of the 3.9m 2015 UKIP vote used to vote Labour, that's hardly JC's fault. Who's going to argue that fact?
The people responsible for the Labour Party's troubles today lies at the feet of TB, Mandy and Ali Campbell who sold the country down the river.
However, the Labour Party will easily exceed the 9.3m votes Milibland got in 2015 giving JC licence to run again in 2022
War in the Labour Party to throw out the Blairites resumes Monday 12.06.2017

Unless the moderate wing of Labour breaks ranks and forms a centre ground party that will attract many from the Liberals and soft Tory voters, it will die and that will be to the detriment of all of us.
I voted UKIP last time because of the EU, jobs done now I'm not bothered if they fade away, they never were a serious opposistion party, Labour on the other hand.......

Very hard for any new party to flourish in our system. Very, very hard. It doesn't need a breakaway party, these things will be cyclical. The mentalists who back Corbyn will eventually run out of steam. And also, there may not be a candidate following Corbyn that is so easy for them to unite behind.

Not if you have financial backing, look at UKIP's rise.
On the other matter when do you think the time for a moderate Labour party to get elected will be, 2027? Because all the militant in Labour now will have it stitched up in another year or so.

[Worthy4England]

UK is rose to gain ONE seat... Out of 650...

[BWFC_Insane]

Here's your problem BWFCi and this comment is not untypical in the Guardian.

The Labour Party in 2017 finds itself in the mire DESPITE Corbyn.
If around half of the of the 3.9m 2015 UKIP vote used to vote Labour, that's hardly JC's fault. Who's going to argue that fact?
The people responsible for the Labour Party's troubles today lies at the feet of TB, Mandy and Ali Campbell who sold the country down the river.
However, the Labour Party will easily exceed the 9.3m votes Milibland got in 2015 giving JC licence to run again in 2022
War in the Labour Party to throw out the Blairites resumes Monday 12.06.2017

Unless the moderate wing of Labour breaks ranks and forms a centre ground party that will attract many from the Liberals and soft Tory voters, it will die and that will be to the detriment of all of us.
I voted UKIP last time because of the EU, jobs done now I'm not bothered if they fade away, they never were a serious opposistion party, Labour on the other hand.......

Very hard for any new party to flourish in our system. Very, very hard. It doesn't need a breakaway party, these things will be cyclical. The mentalists who back Corbyn will eventually run out of steam. And also, there may not be a candidate following Corbyn that is so easy for them to unite behind.

Not if you have financial backing, look at UKIP's rise.
On the other matter when do you think the time for a moderate Labour party to get elected will be, 2027? Because all the militant in Labour now will have it stitched up in another year or so.

Aye, well W4E has made my point. UKIP have amounted to a whole seat! Not exactly significant.

Financial backing obviously is important but the trouble is (as we saw in history with the SDP, remember that?) that you split the vote across Labour, new centrist party and Lib Dems. And because of our FPTP seats system, it then massively favours the Tories.

A new party might happen, but it won't magically solve the issue.

Eventually the militants in Labour (as you put it) will get bored, or fail to unite around a single candidate in the way they have with Corbyn and will let normality resume. The sooner the better, but we shall see.

[Hoboh]

UK is rose to gain ONE seat... Out of 650...

And quite a few councillors and forced Cameron's hand on the referendum and propelled Farage on to the world stage, replaced the established official opposition in second place in quite a few seats etc. etc.
No referendum and UKIP would more than likely ended up beating the Lib Dems into 4th place.
Still don't let your prejudice blind you.

[Hoboh]

Aye, well W4E has made my point. UKIP have amounted to a whole seat! Not exactly significant.

Financial backing obviously is important but the trouble is (as we saw in history with the SDP, remember that?) that you split the vote across Labour, new centrist party and Lib Dems. And because of our FPTP seats system, it then massively favours the Tories.

A new party might happen, but it won't magically solve the issue.

Eventually the militants in Labour (as you put it) will get bored, or fail to unite around a single candidate in the way they have with Corbyn and will let normality resume. The sooner the better, but we shall see.

Aye and it is possible one day BWFC could win the Champions league.

“I was elected leader of this party and I’ll stay leader of this party,” Corbyn told BuzzFeed News, taking a few minutes out from campaigning in the Warwickshire town of Leamington Spa.
No matter what happens on 8 June, he said, he would be “carrying on”. And he insisted that the constant criticism and poor poll ratings were not getting to him. “Monsieur Zen is fine,” he said

The debate about whether or not Jeremy Corbyn will, or should, resign if he loses the election is, at this point, still hypothetical.
It is attracting considerable interest in Labour circles, where there is an assumption that Corbyn would be strongly urged to stay on by his leftwing allies, not least because they hope to get conference to pass a rule change in September which would increase the chances of another leftwinger winning the next leadership contest.

Not very promising is it? Just admit Militant under a new guise have taken over the Labour party, the grass roots are becoming riddled with them.

[BWFC_Insane]

UK is rose to gain ONE seat... Out of 650...

And quite a few councillors and forced Cameron's hand on the referendum and propelled Farage on to the world stage, replaced the established official opposition in second place in quite a few seats etc. etc.
No referendum and UKIP would more than likely ended up beating the Lib Dems into 4th place.
Still don't let your prejudice blind you.

But they didn't achieve anything meaningful. The Tory right forced Cameron's hand. Perhaps UKIP influenced the Tory right, but electorally they were no threat.

Farage becoming a minor celebrity gobshite makes no odds.

No point creating a new "centrist party" if they can't win a GE. So we're talking about more than 300* the performance of UKIP. And in a far shorter space of time.

It isn't happening.

[Worthy4England]

My point exactly sir. UKIP served a purpose, didn't get anywhere near winning an election, won some councillors which it lost many of, mid week. It's not blinded by prejudice, that's what's occurred. They did poll a good number of votes and in a PR system would have had a lot more than 1 MP. But we're not and thus far they haven't...

[Lord Kangana]

The main threat that UKIP posed to thw Tories wasn't beating them in the overwhelming majority of constituencies, but taking enough votes off them to push them into second place. The Tories are way too street-wise to let that happen.