The wonderful EU and Migration thread!

[Hoboh]

I have to say, that is a shit argument. It's like saying David Cameron gets to be in charge and I never got to vote for him or not.

Gove's a slimy cock, but he's bright. If that is the best argument "out" has got, oh deary me.

I ain't seen anything in that league from Europhiles like Michael Elite Rose for example!

haha!

the europhiles can at least layout a clear picture of what the UK's fortunes would look like if we stayed in.

the OUT camp are failing to give us any information - note Worthy's questions above, which he has asked several times and you (and the whole of the OUT camp) have still managed not to deal with...

One look at the front page of any newspaper this summer and I can paint what feckin' fortune awaits us with continued EU membership!
Worthy has never ever put one provable fact about how the EU benefits the UK, so why should I be arsed except to reply in kind?
I get you love Europeans and sounding grand as a member of the EU, I'd just change my profession as a precaution if I was you, the big fat embrace all is going to end in a big feck off war, again!

[thebish]

One look at the front page of any newspaper this summer and I can paint what feckin' fortune awaits us with continued EU membership!
Worthy has never ever put one provable fact about how the EU benefits the UK, so why should I be arsed except to reply in kind?
I get you love Europeans and sounding grand as a member of the EU, I'd just change my profession as a precaution if I was you, the big fat embrace all is going to end in a big feck off war, again!

OK - I'll trade you one-for-one - how's that?

Free trade between member nations is a FACT - it exists and will continue to exist if we stay in - protection from tariffs and restrictive import practices...
This is a big reason why the CBI is massively in favour of staying in.

so - in return..

how much will it cost us to negotiate all the various country-to-country deals that we will need? how many will there be - and what terms will we be offered? what impact will those terms have on our GDP? (a ball-park figure will do)
(NB - the US have already said it will cost us more to trade with them...)

[Lost Leopard Spot]

One look at the front page of any newspaper this summer and I can paint what feckin' fortune awaits us with continued EU membership!
Worthy has never ever put one provable fact about how the EU benefits the UK, so why should I be arsed except to reply in kind?
I get you love Europeans and sounding grand as a member of the EU, I'd just change my profession as a precaution if I was you, the big fat embrace all is going to end in a big feck off war, again!

OK - I'll trade you one-for-one - how's that?

Free trade between member nations is a FACT - it exists and will continue to exist if we stay in - protection from tariffs and restrictive import practices...
This is a big reason why the CBI is massively in favour of staying in.

so - in return..

how much will it cost us to negotiate all the various country-to-country deals that we will need? how many will there be - and what terms will we be offered? what impact will those terms have on our GDP? (a ball-park figure will do)
(NB - the US have already said it will cost us more to trade with them...)

We are net importers of manufactured goods and food overall and net exporters of consultancy, expertise and financial manipulation. So by the very simply law of supply and demand it would be us in the ascendency on any tarrif wars. VW will still want to sell cars here, and Germans will still want our engineering contracts for very limited example.

[Worthy4England]

Is there any reason whatsoever, we've had to suffer a full press release from Michael Gove?

Here's a provable fact for you. The EU currently levies the Common Customs Tariff on goods entering the EU from outside it's borders. Being in the EU - we don't pay it. That's a fact. I'll quantify it in hard provable numbers - it's zero. That's a fact too.

That's a benefit when weighed against a Chilean wine exporter - who pays 13.80 Euros per hectolitre Tariff on a Chilean Tokaj (about 10p a bottle). There's another provable fact. How much will a UK Tokaj exporter be paying in the new Trade Agreements the Brexit teams? Now I've given you some provable facts to work with....

[Lost Leopard Spot]

^ Surely we'll import it and if we don't charge a tarrif it'll be 10p a bottle cheaper

[Worthy4England]

^ Surely we'll import it and if we don't charge a tarrif it'll be 10p a bottle cheaper

Not that we have a strong Chilean Tokaj industry in the UK - but I was talking about our export position into the EU. Not our import position into the UK.

Our import position could be whatever we agree within all the trading Agreements that we're going to put in place post exit. What are they? Only no one seems to know? And I'd have thought it was fairly important to an argument around whether we're losing money or gaining it.

[thebish]

the EU Association Agreement with Chile came into force a dozen or so years ago - and includes a free-trade agreement...

we'd have to agree a new one with chile were we to decide to leave the EU ... it might not be as great - as (on our own) we don't have the trading power that the EU wields over chile...

we haven't been told what it is expected that new UK-Chile agreement might cost or what the terms would look like, or how long it would take to agree - but I'm sure the Brexit experts - maybe the clever Mr Gove? - will soon be able to tell us...

[Lost Leopard Spot]

No wonder the planet is getting fxcked. If we have people making a living importing wine from Chile in order to export it to France then we deserve to go under.
Surely any possible discussion on rates, costs and tariffs depends on the exchange rate, which we won't know either way (in or out). But I'd feel a might more comfortable unhitched from the train crash the Euro WILL become if fiscal union isn't achieved (which it won't soon).

[Worthy4England]

So this new beneficial set of trading terms we're going to get. You have no notion what they might be then? I'm happy to be given them at today's fx rates so I can compare with what's already there on the understanding they might change over time.

[Lord Kangana]

I'm in because I don't trust this bunch of spineless, shifty c*nts to organise a f*cking picnic.

The EU is all that stands between us and their dream of a horrible carbon copy of the frankly frightening American model of zero rights for workers (kiss your holiday entitlement goodnight amongst many other things).

[thebish]

So this new beneficial set of trading terms we're going to get. You have no notion what they might be then? I'm happy to be given them at today's fx rates so I can compare with what's already there on the understanding they might change over time.

spotty was quite clear - he reckons we will be able to negotiate a new trading relationship with Chile that has a 10p per bottle of wine CHEAPER tariff than the one the EU has signed with Chile on our behalf.

so - it all looks ace!

[Hoboh]

One look at the front page of any newspaper this summer and I can paint what feckin' fortune awaits us with continued EU membership!
Worthy has never ever put one provable fact about how the EU benefits the UK, so why should I be arsed except to reply in kind?
I get you love Europeans and sounding grand as a member of the EU, I'd just change my profession as a precaution if I was you, the big fat embrace all is going to end in a big feck off war, again!

OK - I'll trade you one-for-one - how's that?

Free trade between member nations is a FACT - it exists and will continue to exist if we stay in - protection from tariffs and restrictive import practices...
This is a big reason why the CBI is massively in favour of staying in.

so - in return..

how much will it cost us to negotiate all the various country-to-country deals that we will need? how many will there be - and what terms will we be offered? what impact will those terms have on our GDP? (a ball-park figure will do)
(NB - the US have already said it will cost us more to trade with them...)

so we had no trade before we joined the EU and won't after if we leave?
Worthy is not going to replace his BMW because of course we are not going to have any free trade with Europe are we?
Free trade with Europe is effectively with what Europe used to be, eight to ten nations, your Latvia's Bulgaria, Romania, Estonia etc. are a joke in terms of trade, we could in effect have a two tier Europe.
No one can give an accurate 'ball park' figure for GDP

[Hoboh]

One look at the front page of any newspaper this summer and I can paint what feckin' fortune awaits us with continued EU membership!
Worthy has never ever put one provable fact about how the EU benefits the UK, so why should I be arsed except to reply in kind?
I get you love Europeans and sounding grand as a member of the EU, I'd just change my profession as a precaution if I was you, the big fat embrace all is going to end in a big feck off war, again!

OK - I'll trade you one-for-one - how's that?

Free trade between member nations is a FACT - it exists and will continue to exist if we stay in - protection from tariffs and restrictive import practices...
This is a big reason why the CBI is massively in favour of staying in.

so - in return..

how much will it cost us to negotiate all the various country-to-country deals that we will need? how many will there be - and what terms will we be offered? what impact will those terms have on our GDP? (a ball-park figure will do)
(NB - the US have already said it will cost us more to trade with them...)

so we had no trade before we joined the EU and won't after if we leave?
Worthy is not going to replace his BMW because of course we are not going to have any free trade with Europe are we?
Free trade with Europe is effectively with what Europe used to be, eight to ten nations, your Latvia's Bulgaria, Romania, Estonia etc. are a joke in terms of trade, we could in effect have a two tier Europe.
No one can give an accurate 'ball park' figure for GDP

[Hoboh]

^ Surely we'll import it and if we don't charge a tarrif it'll be 10p a bottle cheaper

Not that we have a strong Chilean Tokaj industry in the UK - but I was talking about our export position into the EU. Not our import position into the UK.

Our import position could be whatever we agree within all the trading Agreements that we're going to put in place post exit. What are they? Only no one seems to know? And I'd have thought it was fairly important to an argument around whether we're losing money or gaining it.

So when we whack a 25% import duty on your next BMW the German manufacturers are going to be happy you (or your company) may go elsewhere.

[thebish]

One look at the front page of any newspaper this summer and I can paint what feckin' fortune awaits us with continued EU membership!
Worthy has never ever put one provable fact about how the EU benefits the UK, so why should I be arsed except to reply in kind?
I get you love Europeans and sounding grand as a member of the EU, I'd just change my profession as a precaution if I was you, the big fat embrace all is going to end in a big feck off war, again!

OK - I'll trade you one-for-one - how's that?

Free trade between member nations is a FACT - it exists and will continue to exist if we stay in - protection from tariffs and restrictive import practices...
This is a big reason why the CBI is massively in favour of staying in.

so - in return..

how much will it cost us to negotiate all the various country-to-country deals that we will need? how many will there be - and what terms will we be offered? what impact will those terms have on our GDP? (a ball-park figure will do)
(NB - the US have already said it will cost us more to trade with them...)

so we had no trade before we joined the EU and won't after if we leave?
Worthy is not going to replace his BMW because of course we are not going to have any free trade with Europe are we?
Free trade with Europe is effectively with what Europe used to be, eight to ten nations, your Latvia's Bulgaria, Romania, Estonia etc. are a joke in terms of trade, we could in effect have a two tier Europe.
No one can give an accurate 'ball park' figure for GDP

again - you are not even TRYING to answer the question!! here's a less complicated one...

how many separate trade agreements do you think we will have to negotiate and how long do you think that will take (ie - how many months/years of uncertainty/chaos will face UK businesses should we vote to leave?)

[Worthy4England]

No Sir, this is progress. We now know that BMW's are going to he 25% more expensive to UK consumers. Hobo's just told us. Next, French wine. How much will that go up?

[thebish]

No Sir, this is progress. We now know that BMW's are going to he 25% more expensive to UK consumers. Hobo's just told us. Next, French wine. How much will that go up?

...and chilean wine will be 10p/bottle cheaper.

[Worthy4England]

No Sir, this is progress. We now know that BMW's are going to he 25% more expensive to UK consumers. Hobo's just told us. Next, French wine. How much will that go up?

...and chilean wine will be 10p/bottle cheaper.

I'm almost persuaded...All I need now is to hear Michael Gove and Jacob Rees-Mogg named as lead negotiators and I'll be in the exit camp.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

One look at the front page of any newspaper this summer and I can paint what feckin' fortune awaits us with continued EU membership!
Worthy has never ever put one provable fact about how the EU benefits the UK, so why should I be arsed except to reply in kind?
I get you love Europeans and sounding grand as a member of the EU, I'd just change my profession as a precaution if I was you, the big fat embrace all is going to end in a big feck off war, again!

OK - I'll trade you one-for-one - how's that?

Free trade between member nations is a FACT - it exists and will continue to exist if we stay in - protection from tariffs and restrictive import practices...
This is a big reason why the CBI is massively in favour of staying in.

so - in return..

how much will it cost us to negotiate all the various country-to-country deals that we will need? how many will there be - and what terms will we be offered? what impact will those terms have on our GDP? (a ball-park figure will do)
(NB - the US have already said it will cost us more to trade with them...)

so we had no trade before we joined the EU and won't after if we leave?
Worthy is not going to replace his BMW because of course we are not going to have any free trade with Europe are we?
Free trade with Europe is effectively with what Europe used to be, eight to ten nations, your Latvia's Bulgaria, Romania, Estonia etc. are a joke in terms of trade, we could in effect have a two tier Europe.
No one can give an accurate 'ball park' figure for GDP

again - you are not even TRYING to answer the question!! here's a less complicated one...

how many separate trade agreements do you think we will have to negotiate and how long do you think that will take (ie - how many months/years of uncertainty/chaos will face UK businesses should we vote to leave?)

About the same number as any of these countries: Canada, Brazil, Australia, Indonesia, South Korea, Japan, China, New Zealand, Chile, Russia, St Vincent and the Granadines.
It's not rocket science. All the above countries are outside major 'contributory' trading blocs and non are economically starved.

[Bruce Rioja]

Would Brexit mean you'd have to spend much more on shopping? Would it affect your company much?

I'm increasingly being asked this, Bob, and we don't envisage much change either way. We still have to remain competitive in all markets globally, but a lot of what we do is sold on efficiency (and our two main competitors are both German) and the knock-on effects thereof rather than simply the cost price in the marketplace alone. This nonsense that the price of German cars etc. is about to go through the roof would simply mean that they wouldn't sell as many to us. Our main headaches are always caused by exchange rates, not as to whether or not we're as one with the rest of Europe.