The wonderful EU and Migration thread!

[bedwetter2]

Thank God someone's just taken the economics out of the debate.

Fear not. We'll put them back.

Do you have a cunning plan?

[Worthy4England]

^^ Well, I say to myself, "Roger Bootle?" His organisation produced an independent report for Woodford? The same Roger Bootle who writes in the Telegraph and ain't noted for a pro-European stance, even if I try and look past the probably's, maybe's, could's etc...I'll deffo treat that as independent, then...

The BoE is possibly more interesting from their super secret task force set up a year or so (?) ago...but if we're not going to see it...

[bedwetter2]

^^ Well, I say to myself, "Roger Bootle?" His organisation produced an independent report for Woodford? The same Roger Bootle who writes in the Telegraph and ain't noted for a pro-European stance, even if I try and look past the probably's, maybe's, could's etc...I'll deffo treat that as independent, then...

The BoE is possibly more interesting from their super secret task force set up a year or so (?) ago...but if we're not going to see it...

You may well say "Roger Bootle" but his organisation, Capital Economics, is much more than one man and is seen as sufficiently independent to be a key adviser to the UK Treasury. I'm not sure where you got your information regarding who Neil Woodford employs to provide macro economics advice but I believe two other companies were also contracted to provide this sort of research in order to provide a balanced picture. He has a reputation for being risk averse and WIM was founded on the basis of protecting his investors as much as possible. Doesn't sound like someone willing to take that proverbial 'leap in the dark'.

The strange thing is that Neil Woodford is not averse to the EU and supports continuing membership, but not on economics grounds. He has been quoted as saying the the markets will do what they always do and settle down after a bit of upheaval. Further, "Brexit is not about the economy, it's about politics, issues like immigration and sovereignty".

Re the BOE, it's worth mentioning that here is where politics and economics meet with politics generally overriding any economic doubts. It doesn't surprise me that the research is unlikely to be published in a timely manner. Whilst nominally independent the BOE is well aware of who pays the salaries. Or perhaps the research will just be nobbled.

[thebish]

[Worthy4England]

Independence has always been a byword for being an advisor to the UK Treasury...pretty much like you pointed out Re: Court of Auditors. So was Alan Walters. The report that Woodford has recently been citing is the one from CE.

Investment funds are there to make money for themselves and their investors. Whilst they can do this during relatively stable markets, they tend to do it a whole lot better in unstable ones. These two are almost certainly no more independent than, for example, CEO of Rolls Royce, IMO, or any of the other business leaders who don't fancy it.

Don't get me wrong, the CE report and others add to the debate. They don't answer much below some macro level punts though and they're certainly not a bee all and end all answer. I work with plenty of independent research orgs in my line of business. It's amazing how their viewpoint can change dependent on the question asked and who's paying for the answer.

[bedwetter2]

Like you I have also worked with research organisations in the past and I would agree that actual outcomes are at best the result of some solidly based guesswork. However this infomation can be viewed as a counterpoint to some of the bs flowing from politicians mouths.

I would trust Woodford to protect his investor's interests and by extension advise his clients that there is no need to panic about the effects of a possible exit. No more than that.

Until there is more truth injected into the debate (and few politicians like the truth) the electorate will continue to be poorly informed. So I will continue to sit uncomfortably on the fence until the last possible moment.

[bedwetter2]

You must have copped that from a Jacques Delors/Herman von Rumpoy/Martin Schultz/Jean Claude Junker tribute website.

I can tell that because the first 'fact' was a giveaway; I.e. lie. 57%, pfft.
Most of the rest are either bollix or not worth having, innit?

[Worthy4England]

Glad you're continuing your theme of independence, in the face of piss n wind.

[bedwetter2]

Well, it's one of the good old bish's humourous insertions.
One has to go that extra yard and give it back in the spirit in which it was intended.

[thebish]

Well, it's one of the good old bish's humourous insertions.
One has to go that extra yard and give it back in the spirit in which it was intended.

except mine was way funnier!

[Worthy4England]

Well, it's one of the good old bish's humourous insertions.
One has to go that extra yard and give it back in the spirit in which it was intended.

except mine was way funnier!

I'll just dig out my independent report where I confirm that conclusion.

[thebish]

Well, it's one of the good old bish's humourous insertions.
One has to go that extra yard and give it back in the spirit in which it was intended.

except mine was way funnier!

I'll just dig out my independent report where I confirm that conclusion.

is it a top secret one that you can't actually show us?

[Worthy4England]

Well, it's one of the good old bish's humourous insertions.
One has to go that extra yard and give it back in the spirit in which it was intended.

except mine was way funnier!

I'll just dig out my independent report where I confirm that conclusion.

is it a top secret one that you can't actually show us?

I'll PM you my answer.

[bedwetter2]

Well, it's one of the good old bish's humourous insertions.
One has to go that extra yard and give it back in the spirit in which it was intended.

except mine was way funnier!

I'll just dig out my independent report where I confirm that conclusion.

is it a top secret one that you can't actually show us?

I'll PM you my answer.

Firstly, the bish's was not funnier. It's a hackneyed German humour sort of take on a Life of Brian sketch. My response was better.

Secondly, do not under any circumstances reveal the results of the secretly obtained research to anyone else. You could at the very least cause a major diplomatic incident - just keep repeating to yourself " Angela Merkel is not The Bish in drag".

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Thank God someone's just taken the economics out of the debate.

Fear not. We'll put them back.

Not for me you won't. There is no economic benefit to anything when it's based on growth. The more the argument is based in that direction, the stronger I'm heading into the Brexit camp.

[Worthy4England]

Thank God someone's just taken the economics out of the debate.

Fear not. We'll put them back.

Not for me you won't. There is no economic benefit to anything when it's based on growth. The more the argument is based in that direction, the stronger I'm heading into the Brexit camp.

Not sure anyone has made any arguments based on growth other than the Brexit camp, telling us how Britannia will rule the waves once more...That said, I reckon I'd have had you in the leave camp anyhow.

[Hoboh]

Thank God someone's just taken the economics out of the debate.

Fear not. We'll put them back.

Not for me you won't. There is no economic benefit to anything when it's based on growth. The more the argument is based in that direction, the stronger I'm heading into the Brexit camp.

Not sure anyone has made any arguments based on growth other than the Brexit camp, telling us how Britannia will rule the waves once more...That said, I reckon I'd have had you in the leave camp anyhow.

Growing faster than the jungle in Calais!

[Hoboh]

A ban by Brussels on high-powered kettles and toasters has been shelved amid fears they could drive the British public towards the EU exit door.

The European Commission, which triggered an outcry by banning powerful vacuum cleaners two years ago, has delayed a second wave of restrictions on kettles, toasters and hairdryers, it emerged last night.

Sources said the move was ‘linked to Brexit’ and that senior EU figures were concerned that a ban on the appliances could spark fury because of the British love for tea and toast.

[Harry Genshaw]

A ban by Brussels on high-powered kettles and toasters has been shelved amid fears they could drive the British public towards the EU exit door.

The European Commission, which triggered an outcry by banning powerful vacuum cleaners two years ago, has delayed a second wave of restrictions on kettles, toasters and hairdryers, it emerged last night.

Sources said the move was ‘linked to Brexit’ and that senior EU figures were concerned that a ban on the appliances could spark fury because of the British love for tea and toast.

It could have caused Eddie to have a few sleepless nights too!

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Thank God someone's just taken the economics out of the debate.

Fear not. We'll put them back.

Not for me you won't. There is no economic benefit to anything when it's based on growth. The more the argument is based in that direction, the stronger I'm heading into the Brexit camp.

Not sure anyone has made any arguments based on growth other than the Brexit camp, telling us how Britannia will rule the waves once more...That said, I reckon I'd have had you in the leave camp anyhow.

Based on what?