The Politics Thread

[Enoch]

I diligently check all my accountant's returns every year to ensure I pay every penny owed.

He's so slipshod about his work, only last year I picked up that he hadn't declared all my private mileage as a benefit in kind. Even then, when I brought this to his attention, he forgot to mention that Wednesday I went out of my way to look in on me dear old Mam.

[Worthy4England]

I diligently check all my accountant's returns every year to ensure I pay every penny owed.

He's so slipshod about his work, only last year I picked up that he hadn't declared all my private mileage as a benefit in kind. Even then, when I brought this to his attention, he forgot to mention that Wednesday I went out of my way to look in on me dear old Mam.

I'll feel much better about filling in my tax return now I know this! Hurrah for Enoch - an indupitable tax paragon.

[Worthy4England]

^^ Which reminds me - it's due now isn't it....

[Enoch]

^^ Which reminds me - it's due now isn't it....

'tis a bugger, ain't it.

[Worthy4England]

^^ Which reminds me - it's due now isn't it....

'tis a bugger, ain't it.

All depends if it's all sat in British Virgin Islands or not!

[thebish]

^^ Which reminds me - it's due now isn't it....

'tis a bugger, ain't it.

I no longer do a self-assessment tax return - I am below all the thresholds and I managed to answer (honestly) in the negative all the questions that appear on the "Do you still need to be self-assessed" checklist...

it's a liberation and a definite benefit to not being a massive fat cat!

[BWFC_Insane]

I merely responded to your argument that offshore tax havens are just ISA's for million and billionaires. Which has to be the most ridiculous thing I have seen.

Come on. I'm waiting, with your "most ridiculousness" and all of that stuff. Where is it?

Nope nothing. Not a peep. You should get out more often because that's exactly what they are. I take it that you have an ISA. And where exactly did I mention "million and billionaires", Hyperbole Boy?

I shall quote what Beefheart has written below, as it very neatly sums it up. If you really think that someone having an ISA is the same as offshore tax havens, then I have to give up because there is little point discussing it. I do not have an ISA actually, nor do I shift money offshore.

The way to look at aggressive avoidance or 'loopholes' is that they are actively seeking to circumvent what is considered to be illegal, which is why the 'it's just the same as an ISA' argument is a load of bollocks. That's a specific government scheme which offers a tax break to encourage saving. It also has a limit to how much you can save in tax, it's fundamentally different. A lot of these schemes exist for the sole purpose of avoiding tax.

[Enoch]

it's a liberation and a definite benefit to not being a massive fat cat!

I enjoy my generous diet of milk and fish.

[Bruce Rioja]

I merely responded to your argument that offshore tax havens are just ISA's for million and billionaires. Which has to be the most ridiculous thing I have seen.

Come on. I'm waiting, with your "most ridiculousness" and all of that stuff. Where is it?

Nope nothing. Not a peep. You should get out more often because that's exactly what they are. I take it that you have an ISA. And where exactly did I mention "million and billionaires", Hyperbole Boy?

I shall quote what Beefheart has written below, as it very neatly sums it up. If you really think that someone having an ISA is the same as offshore tax havens, then I have to give up because there is little point discussing it. I do not have an ISA actually, nor do I shift money offshore.

The way to look at aggressive avoidance or 'loopholes' is that they are actively seeking to circumvent what is considered to be illegal, which is why the 'it's just the same as an ISA' argument is a load of bollocks. That's a specific government scheme which offers a tax break to encourage saving. It also has a limit to how much you can save in tax, it's fundamentally different. A lot of these schemes exist for the sole purpose of avoiding tax.

You don't need to quote anyone. It's simply a sliding scale of the same prniciple.

[Harry Genshaw]

I know when I was looking to make the most of my savings some years ago, I was advised to pop it in an ISA. I think I benefitted by about £15 this year from it. Nobody suggested putting them into a high unit trust in Panama. It must be the circles I move in

[Worthy4England]

^^ Which reminds me - it's due now isn't it....

'tis a bugger, ain't it.

I WON!!!!

[BWFC_Insane]

I merely responded to your argument that offshore tax havens are just ISA's for million and billionaires. Which has to be the most ridiculous thing I have seen.

Come on. I'm waiting, with your "most ridiculousness" and all of that stuff. Where is it?

Nope nothing. Not a peep. You should get out more often because that's exactly what they are. I take it that you have an ISA. And where exactly did I mention "million and billionaires", Hyperbole Boy?

I shall quote what Beefheart has written below, as it very neatly sums it up. If you really think that someone having an ISA is the same as offshore tax havens, then I have to give up because there is little point discussing it. I do not have an ISA actually, nor do I shift money offshore.

The way to look at aggressive avoidance or 'loopholes' is that they are actively seeking to circumvent what is considered to be illegal, which is why the 'it's just the same as an ISA' argument is a load of bollocks. That's a specific government scheme which offers a tax break to encourage saving. It also has a limit to how much you can save in tax, it's fundamentally different. A lot of these schemes exist for the sole purpose of avoiding tax.

You don't need to quote anyone. It's simply a sliding scale of the same prniciple.

It isn't. ISA's are inside the UK tax system. The government could choose at any point to change the rules regarding ISAs. They are limited and under government control.

Offshore tax havens are outside of the tax system and outside of the government's IMMEDIATE control. And they are not limited or regulated by the UK government.

Nobody knows how much companies or individuals are pushing through offshore accounts to avoid tax entirely (not just tax on interest). We do know how much people are allowed to put into their ISA each year. The ISA saves the payment of tax on the interest for a limited annual deposit. The initial money, if taxable as income or otherwise has already been taxed.

Offshore tax havens allow individuals or companies to hide money from the UK government with a variety of benefits. Not always in order to avoid tax. Often tax avoidance is a good reason but there are plenty of others.

The difference is massive and not about a "sliding scale". An ISA was simply an effective boost to your interest on a limited amount of savings. Given that now everyone has a higher amount of interest they can earn tax free ISA's for many aren't worth it. Though no doubt given the personal interest tax free allowance you will try and claim that having a bank account is the same as an offshore tax haven.....

[Bruce Rioja]

You can bang on all you like but the principle remains the same. I'm not decrying any of it, by the way.

[BWFC_Insane]

You can bang on all you like but the principle remains the same. I'm not decrying any of it, by the way.

Only if you ignore all the reasons why it isn't......

[Bruce Rioja]

You can bang on all you like but the principle remains the same. I'm not decrying any of it, by the way.

Only if you ignore all the reasons why it isn't......

Nonsense. The upshot is exactly the same.

[BWFC_Insane]

You can bang on all you like but the principle remains the same. I'm not decrying any of it, by the way.

Only if you ignore all the reasons why it isn't......

Nonsense. The upshot is exactly the same.

Again it isn't. The upshot of an ISA is you have a limited amount you can save each year with tax free interest. The money is under UK regulation and is known about.

An offshore tax haven is an unlimited and unknown amount of money sitting outside of the UK tax system and regulation. The upshot of which is, potentially the complete avoidance of tax on that money. Plus the effects of hiding that money entirely from UK regulation.

Basic rate taxpayers now have an amount of interest of up to £1000 they can earn tax free. They can put their money into a bank account and earn £1000 interest before paying any tax on it. By your definition every basic rate tax payer with a bank account is now doing the same thing as say, a company trading in the UK registered in the Cayman Islands...which is clearly absolute nonsense.

To be analogous to offshore tax havens, you have to have a system that lets you remove taxable income from the UK system entirely from the outset. Not just a situation where you can save a limited amount of interest tax free. Otherwise you might as well call low income earners "tax avoiders", they aren't paying tax, same as a company with an offshore account. But of course it is a ridiculous analogy.

[Bruce Rioja]

You can bang on all you like but the principle remains the same. I'm not decrying any of it, by the way.

Only if you ignore all the reasons why it isn't......

Nonsense. The upshot is exactly the same.

Again it isn't. The upshot of an ISA is you have a limited amount you can save each year with tax free interest. The money is under UK regulation and is known about.

An offshore tax haven is an unlimited and unknown amount of money sitting outside of the UK tax system and regulation. The upshot of which is, potentially the complete avoidance of tax on that money. Plus the effects of hiding that money entirely from UK regulation.

Basic rate taxpayers now have an amount of interest of up to £1000 they can earn tax free. They can put their money into a bank account and earn £1000 interest before paying any tax on it. By your definition every basic rate tax payer with a bank account is now doing the same thing as say, a company trading in the UK registered in the Cayman Islands...which is clearly absolute nonsense.

To be analogous to offshore tax havens, you have to have a system that lets you remove taxable income from the UK system entirely from the outset. Not just a situation where you can save a limited amount of interest tax free. Otherwise you might as well call low income earners "tax avoiders", they aren't paying tax, same as a company with an offshore account. But of course it is a ridiculous analogy.

I'm not even reading that because I'm correct.

[Worthy4England]

Don't blame you, coz you're both bloody wrong.

[Hoboh]

One thing we’ve learned is that rich people aren’t even rational: they can afford to live in the Cayman Islands and leave their money here. Instead, they make their money go on holiday so they can live in perpetual rain, like the way the dwarves in the Snow White movie kept all the diamonds and lived in the forest.

[Lord Kangana]

Hoboh nails it again!