The wonderful EU and Migration thread!

[Worthy4England]

Did you vote for this lot, because they offered a referendum? I mean, if so, you'd be in that 30-odd% of people that wanted this government....

No

Guess the referendum can't have been that important to you then, coz no other buggers likely to get elected were offering one.

[Hoboh]

Did you vote for this lot, because they offered a referendum? I mean, if so, you'd be in that 30-odd% of people that wanted this government....

No

Guess the referendum can't have been that important to you then, coz no other buggers likely to get elected were offering one.

Voted for the party that made the buggers squirm into a referendum actually and will do so in the locals because labour are a poisen round here, Tory? against my instincts and Clegg ruined the Lib Dems.
Don't think there is any tree huggers but you know my thoughts on them.

[Hoboh]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... city-blitz

Public money!

Well I never.

Well, you'd rather expect a government, having offered such a significant referendum, to publish information for voters to enable them to make up their minds, wouldn't you?

The problem here is fck all to do with taxpayers money, which isn't huge in the scheme of things, it's that you think the information might not represent your view.

indeed. The referendum was in the Tory manifesto - and Cameron quite clearly (and on many occasions) said that his government would enter renegotiations and if he was satisfied with those renegotiations his government would be in favour of staying in the EU.

The idea that the government of the day would NOT express an opinion and seek to persuade the country of a policy that they set out in their manifesto on which they were elected is just ludicrous. The government is the the elected government - their job is to govern - and this is one of the big questions our country faces.

Cameron has allowed cabinet members of his government and MPs to campaign freely in opposition to government policy - not every government would have allowed that... (though, when Corbyn allowed opposition in his own party, their was uproar!)

When the referendum legislation went through parliament, the foreign secretary, Philip Hammond, told MPs: “It will be for the yes and the no campaigns to lead the debate in the weeks preceding the poll. I can assure the house that the government has no intention of undermining those campaigns.”

David Lidington, the likeable Europe minister, was even more emphatic: “Let me repeat that we have no intention of legislating to allow the government to do things such as mailshots, paid advertising or leafleting.”

Why, then, have ministers gone back on their words? Why have they chosen to ignore both Britain’s Electoral Commission, which has declared its unhappiness, and the basic rules on the conduct of referendums required by the Council of Europe, which states: “The use of public funds for campaigning purposes must be prohibited in order to guarantee equality of opportunity and the freedom of voters to form an opinion”?

pro-EU campaigners seem stuck in their doom-and-gloom strategy. It’s not just that they seem to have nothing positive to say about Britain. They don’t even have anything positive to say about the EU. The last thing they want to discuss is the paltry deal Brussels was prepared to offer in the renegotiation. All their talk of “reform” has dried up. Instead, they deploy an intrinsically pessimistic argument: “Yeah, the EU is a bit crappy, but change is risky.”

In the words of Jean-Claude Juncker: “There can be no democratic choice against the European treaties”.

I think Goebbels would have been proud of that leaflet.

[thebish]

Anyone blabbing on about Goebbels in this context loses the right to accuse anyone else of "scare mongering" or "project fear"...

[Hoboh]

Anyone blabbing on about Goebbels in this context loses the right to accuse anyone else of "scare mongering" or "project fear"...

Yeah right!

Lord Haw Haw then, will that do?

Goebbels was a bull shitter supreme and master of dis-information, our own government right up to PR PM are so full of it they are on that level, the fact he was a total, utter, despicable, wanker is beyond doubt and there was no intention to glorify the tosser or his support for the holocaust.

Perhaps folk should not make reference to God, blabbing on about a mythical being who slaughtered most of mankind once and wiped out a few cities, by getting out of the wrong side of bed, because he could.

[thebish]

Anyone blabbing on about Goebbels in this context loses the right to accuse anyone else of "scare mongering" or "project fear"...

Yeah right!

Lord Haw Haw then, will that do?

Goebbels was a bull shitter supreme and master of dis-information, our own government right up to PR PM are so full of it they are on that level, the fact he was a total, utter, despicable, wanker is beyond doubt and there was no intention to glorify the tosser or his support for the holocaust.

Perhaps folk should not make reference to God, blabbing on about a mythical being who slaughtered most of mankind once and wiped out a few cities, by getting out of the wrong side of bed, because he could.

could a mythical being REALLY have wiped out cities and have slaughtered most of mankind??

[Hoboh]

Anyone blabbing on about Goebbels in this context loses the right to accuse anyone else of "scare mongering" or "project fear"...

Yeah right!

Lord Haw Haw then, will that do?

Goebbels was a bull shitter supreme and master of dis-information, our own government right up to PR PM are so full of it they are on that level, the fact he was a total, utter, despicable, wanker is beyond doubt and there was no intention to glorify the tosser or his support for the holocaust.

Perhaps folk should not make reference to God, blabbing on about a mythical being who slaughtered most of mankind once and wiped out a few cities, by getting out of the wrong side of bed, because he could.

could a mythical being REALLY have wiped out cities and have slaughtered most of mankind??

Well, I suppose that depends on which propaganda you read

[Hoboh]

The eighth annual survey provides a snapshot of the aspirations of 200 million people. It found that five years after the start of the Arab spring, most youngsters prioritise stability over democracy. Optimism that the region would be better off in the wake of the 2011 uprisings has been steadily declining.

Interesting that the youth in parts of Europe seem to take that view point on the EU, sort of "sod that democracy thing, it's messy".

Then when the great Socialist/Trotsky's get in and mash up democracy, they'll be the first ones to cry.

Full story
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/a ... nning-poll" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[TANGODANCER]

The governments "Stay in" propaganda leaflet arrived today. If only they could convice me they'll atually keep their word. Promises are easily made...and just as easily broken..

[thebish]

The governments "Stay in" propaganda leaflet arrived today. If only they could convice me they'll atually keep their word. Promises are easily made...and just as easily broken..

what promises about the EU do you want them to keep?

[Hoboh]

The governments "Stay in" propaganda leaflet arrived today. If only they could convice me they'll atually keep their word. Promises are easily made...and just as easily broken..

You will find that some of the things they mention as 'opt outs' are not quite, the European parliament can throw out 'Daves' negotiated settlements.
Mines going back in the post box with please return to dodgy Dave.

[LeverEnd]

The governments "Stay in" propaganda leaflet arrived today. If only they could convice me they'll atually keep their word. Promises are easily made...and just as easily broken..

You will find that some of the things they mention as 'opt outs' are not quite, the European parliament can throw out 'Daves' negotiated settlements.
Mines going back in the post box with please return to dodgy Dave.

I'm going to have to ask. The Honourable Itinerant to withdraw that adjective or risk suspension from.the forum.

[Hoboh]

The governments "Stay in" propaganda leaflet arrived today. If only they could convice me they'll atually keep their word. Promises are easily made...and just as easily broken..

You will find that some of the things they mention as 'opt outs' are not quite, the European parliament can throw out 'Daves' negotiated settlements.
Mines going back in the post box with please return to dodgy Dave.

I'm going to have to ask. The Honourable Itinerant to withdraw that adjective or risk suspension from.the forum.

I will willingly withdraw the European parliament.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

The governments "Stay in" propaganda leaflet arrived today. If only they could convice me they'll atually keep their word. Promises are easily made...and just as easily broken..

You will find that some of the things they mention as 'opt outs' are not quite, the European parliament can throw out 'Daves' negotiated settlements.
Mines going back in the post box with please return to dodgy Dave.

I'm going to have to ask. The Honourable Itinerant to withdraw that adjective or risk suspension from.the forum.

I will willingly withdraw the European parliament.

So you want to get rid of the democratic bit? Yet you want more democracy?

Tis a confuddling world is planet hoboh

[Hoboh]

The governments "Stay in" propaganda leaflet arrived today. If only they could convice me they'll atually keep their word. Promises are easily made...and just as easily broken..

You will find that some of the things they mention as 'opt outs' are not quite, the European parliament can throw out 'Daves' negotiated settlements.
Mines going back in the post box with please return to dodgy Dave.

I'm going to have to ask. The Honourable Itinerant to withdraw that adjective or risk suspension from.the forum.

I will willingly withdraw the European parliament.

So you want to get rid of the democratic bit? Yet you want more democracy?

Tis a confuddling world is planet hoboh

Not at all,

I want democracy for the people of the UK, I don't give a fig about the other lemmings involved in the EU super state.
Local democracy is good and pure (in theory) signing away your soul to the devil in return for a few crumbs from the masters table is not.

Most of the European countries in the EU have been good at selling their collective souls and thus their people down the river for century's, the UK has always been a thorn in their side, now they really think they can neuter us aided by our dozy, easily impressed youth.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

Not at all,

I want democracy for the people of the UK, I don't give a fig about the other lemmings involved in the EU super state.
Local democracy is good and pure (in theory) signing away your soul to the devil in return for a few crumbs from the masters table is not.

Most of the European countries in the EU have been good at selling their collective souls and thus their people down the river for century's, the UK has always been a thorn in their side, now they really think they can neuter us aided by our dozy, easily impressed youth.

So, you want to get rid of the people that the people of the UK voted for? I'm still confuddled

[Hoboh]

Not at all,

I want democracy for the people of the UK, I don't give a fig about the other lemmings involved in the EU super state.
Local democracy is good and pure (in theory) signing away your soul to the devil in return for a few crumbs from the masters table is not.

Most of the European countries in the EU have been good at selling their collective souls and thus their people down the river for century's, the UK has always been a thorn in their side, now they really think they can neuter us aided by our dozy, easily impressed youth.

So, you want to get rid of the people that the people of the UK voted for? I'm still confuddled

Or simple

We have no need to play the sham game of voting European no power MP's into a micky mouse parliament, no democracy there, it might as well be a knocking shop instead of a talking shop for it's real worth.
And Yes, I include all members roping in money for now't in the Euro knocking shop including Farage and his mob.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

Not at all,

I want democracy for the people of the UK, I don't give a fig about the other lemmings involved in the EU super state.
Local democracy is good and pure (in theory) signing away your soul to the devil in return for a few crumbs from the masters table is not.

Most of the European countries in the EU have been good at selling their collective souls and thus their people down the river for century's, the UK has always been a thorn in their side, now they really think they can neuter us aided by our dozy, easily impressed youth.

So, you want to get rid of the people that the people of the UK voted for? I'm still confuddled

Or simple

We have no need to play the sham game of voting European no power MP's into a micky mouse parliament, no democracy there, it might as well be a knocking shop instead of a talking shop for it's real worth.
And Yes, I include all members roping in money for now't in the Euro knocking shop including Farage and his mob.

You do know how the EU works don't you? The only bit that hasn't some sort of election involving the public is the Commission. The Commission implements and administers, bit doesn't create laws etc. The head is appointed by people elected by us.

Now don't get me wrong, I think there is a lot wrong with the EU, but no democracy is a myth. I think the issue you have with it is that we don't get our own way enough. The reason for that is our politicians haven't a clue about diplomacy and negotiation. The EU does pretty much what our democratically elected governments tell it to do.

[BWFC_Insane]

You do know how the EU works don't you? The only bit that hasn't some sort of election involving the public is the Commission. The Commission implements and administers, bit doesn't create laws etc. The head is appointed by people elected by us.

Now don't get me wrong, I think there is a lot wrong with the EU, but no democracy is a myth. I think the issue you have with it is that we don't get our own way enough. The reason for that is our politicians haven't a clue about diplomacy and negotiation. The EU does pretty much what our democratically elected governments tell it to do.

I rather think the problem here is that to Hoboh, democracy is things happening that Hoboh likes.

If things happen that Hoboh doesn't like that means it is "undemocratic".

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

You do know how the EU works don't you? The only bit that hasn't some sort of election involving the public is the Commission. The Commission implements and administers, bit doesn't create laws etc. The head is appointed by people elected by us.

Now don't get me wrong, I think there is a lot wrong with the EU, but no democracy is a myth. I think the issue you have with it is that we don't get our own way enough. The reason for that is our politicians haven't a clue about diplomacy and negotiation. The EU does pretty much what our democratically elected governments tell it to do.

I rather think the problem here is that to Hoboh, democracy is things happening that Hoboh likes.

If things happen that Hoboh doesn't like that means it is "undemocratic".

You are on to something there