Brexit or Britin

[boltonboris]

EC just announced 'Vote Leave' as the official 'out' campaign.

This is all very strange this.. So they get to choose who's lobbying against them?

[Worthy4England]

Hmmm. 'The campaigns will be allowed to spend up to £7m, get a free mailshot, TV broadcasts and £600,000 public funds'.

Aye - that's not "the Government". The Electoral Commission have designated two "official" groups - Vote Leave and Britain Stronger in Europe not politically affiliated nor elected. What they don't want, is one side spending £800m and t'other spending £10m as that would be considered unfair.

So both sides can spend £7m of their own money. Taxpayer picks up the tab for the free mailshot (but I don't believe production of the thing being mailshotted), TV Broadcasts - costs usually met by the TV Company - this just ensures that both designated organisations have the same amount of access I think - (So the same amount of airtime). £600,000k picked up by Taxpayer....

[Worthy4England]

EC just announced 'Vote Leave' as the official 'out' campaign.

This is all very strange this.. So they get to choose who's lobbying against them?

There's a test that has to be satisfied. Rules are here.

http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/f ... referendum" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Boris and Gove's lot submission "won" for out, not Farage's mob not some Trade Union "coalition". There was only one "group" for "Remain" I think...

[Bruce Rioja]

£600,000k picked up by Taxpayer....

Indeed. In these austere times our tab's already at 9 mil.

[Prufrock]

It's killing me that they're all whinging how much this referendum they've been banging on about for years it's costing!! We're gonna save kazillions by leaving though, so it'll all be worth it.

To be fair, DC cold only cover the cost about 3x himself, and that's ALL he's got.

[Worthy4England]

£600,000k picked up by Taxpayer....

Indeed. In these austere times our tab's already at 9 mil.

Don't think there's owt else. The taxpayer funded mail drops x 2 will amount to a few million...too, I suspect...

[Lord Kangana]

If you're all worried about the costs now, just wait til the financial markets get their teeth into us nearer the vote. It'll make the ERM look like a lost fiver.

[BWFC_Insane]

Aye - fair points. Can we expect something similar from the Out campaign and if so, who'd be responsible for picking up the tab for it?

The government leaflet isn't part of the "in campaign". It is just a government leaflet.

I'm sure brexit have their own materials. But they have to pay for them.

I haven't read it but the title suggests it very much is!

It is in favour of staying in. But isn't paid out of the in campaign budget. Nor is it part of that campaign. It is a government leaflet giving their position. Which happens to be in.

[Bruce Rioja]

Aye - fair points. Can we expect something similar from the Out campaign and if so, who'd be responsible for picking up the tab for it?

The government leaflet isn't part of the "in campaign". It is just a government leaflet.

I'm sure brexit have their own materials. But they have to pay for them.

I haven't read it but the title suggests it very much is!

It is in favour of staying in. But isn't paid out of the in campaign budget. Nor is it part of that campaign. It is a government leaflet giving their position. Which happens to be in.

Yeah, ok, I get that. What I'd really like to read though - most certainly if you and I are paying for it and not Tory Central Office, is something that covers both the pro's and con's of voting in, set against the pro's and con's of voting out. I really don't think that it's on for ANY government, regardless of persuasion, to reinforce its point at a cost to the electorate.

[thebish]

EC just announced 'Vote Leave' as the official 'out' campaign.

This is all very strange this.. So they get to choose who's lobbying against them?

errrr... no! Nobody is campaigning against the Electoral Commission.

[thebish]

Yeah, ok, I get that. What I'd really like to read though - most certainly if you and I are paying for it and not Tory Central Office, is something that covers both the pro's and con's of voting in, set against the pro's and con's of voting out. I really don't think that it's on for ANY government, regardless of persuasion, to reinforce its point at a cost to the electorate.

wouldn't we all... but....

I doubt that there will ever be any organisation that would be prepared to put out such a leaflet that wouldn't be immediately labelled as biased by one or both sides... seriously - who do you think would be acceptable to both sides to write such a thing - and be prepared to do it?

[Bruce Rioja]

Yeah, ok, I get that. What I'd really like to read though - most certainly if you and I are paying for it and not Tory Central Office, is something that covers both the pro's and con's of voting in, set against the pro's and con's of voting out. I really don't think that it's on for ANY government, regardless of persuasion, to reinforce its point at a cost to the electorate.

wouldn't we all... but....

I doubt that there will ever be any organisation that would be prepared to put out such a leaflet that wouldn't be immediately labelled as biased by one or both sides... seriously - who do you think would be acceptable to both sides to write such a thing - and be prepared to do it?

Then that leaflet, as I feel with this one, has no right in being produced at our expense, no? I can't be alone in having absolutely no fact-based idea which way to vote on the 23rd June. In fact, I know I'm not alone, but most people I know that've already nailed their colours to a mast have done so over a single issue rather than the overall effects.

[thebish]

Yeah, ok, I get that. What I'd really like to read though - most certainly if you and I are paying for it and not Tory Central Office, is something that covers both the pro's and con's of voting in, set against the pro's and con's of voting out. I really don't think that it's on for ANY government, regardless of persuasion, to reinforce its point at a cost to the electorate.

wouldn't we all... but....

I doubt that there will ever be any organisation that would be prepared to put out such a leaflet that wouldn't be immediately labelled as biased by one or both sides... seriously - who do you think would be acceptable to both sides to write such a thing - and be prepared to do it?

Then that leaflet, as I feel with this one, has no right in being produced at our expense, no? I can't be alone in having absolutely no fact-based idea which way to vote on the 23rd June. In fact, I know I'm not alone, but most people I know that've already nailed their colours to a mast have done so over a single issue rather than the overall effects.

pressing forward with their election-mandated manifesto at the expense of the tax-payer - that's exactly what we elect governments to do... surely??

it's all well and good to call for a non-biased information - but it seems not even you can suggest who might be trusted to prepare that information... sadly - that's the name of the game when EVERYONE is affected/involved in some way..

the OUT campaign can't even agree a single campaign between them - there were three main ones - never mind agree fact-material for a leaflet purporting to be non-biased...

[BWFC_Insane]

Aye - fair points. Can we expect something similar from the Out campaign and if so, who'd be responsible for picking up the tab for it?

The government leaflet isn't part of the "in campaign". It is just a government leaflet.

I'm sure brexit have their own materials. But they have to pay for them.

I haven't read it but the title suggests it very much is!

It is in favour of staying in. But isn't paid out of the in campaign budget. Nor is it part of that campaign. It is a government leaflet giving their position. Which happens to be in.

Yeah, ok, I get that. What I'd really like to read though - most certainly if you and I are paying for it and not Tory Central Office, is something that covers both the pro's and con's of voting in, set against the pro's and con's of voting out. I really don't think that it's on for ANY government, regardless of persuasion, to reinforce its point at a cost to the electorate.

Bish and I discussed this on another thread a few days ago. That was my initial reaction. But I suppose the government have the right to put forward their position as they see fit.

I personally am not sure it was a good use of taxpayers money but then that is a personal matter of opinion.

I still find it odd that the government call a referendum to let the people decide but then use public money to try and persuade them to vote one way. Again though that goes back to the fact that I don't believe we should be having a referendum full stop!

[thebish]

I still find it odd that the government call a referendum to let the people decide but then use public money to try and persuade them to vote one way. Again though that goes back to the fact that I don't believe we should be having a referendum full stop!

I still don't get why you think the government (in letting the people decide) should therefore remain neutral. It is surely entirely legitimate that the govenment that those same people just elected with a majority on a manifesto that said they would campaign to stay in the EU after negotiations - should play a part in that debate? The "people" have said they want the Tories to lead the country on this issue and all others - they are simply doing what they were elected to do! Governments use "public money" - they don't have a private pot of money with which they govern the country - we give them money to do precisely that - after we elect them.

[BWFC_Insane]

I still find it odd that the government call a referendum to let the people decide but then use public money to try and persuade them to vote one way. Again though that goes back to the fact that I don't believe we should be having a referendum full stop!

I still don't get why you think the government (in letting the people decide) should therefore remain neutral. It is surely entirely legitimate that the govenment that those same people just elected with a majority on a manifesto that said they would campaign to stay in the EU after negotiations - should play a part in that debate? The "people" have said they want the Tories to lead the country on this issue and all others - they are simply doing what they were elected to do! Governments use "public money" - they don't have a private pot of money with which they govern the country - we give them money to do precisely that - after we elect them.

Simply because if the government have a strong view on the issue, I don't see the point of a referendum. Just like every other issue they're elected to make decisions. Why bother with a referendum? (No need to answer, I know why, but I find it a bit pointless).

[Worthy4England]

Yeah, ok, I get that. What I'd really like to read though - most certainly if you and I are paying for it and not Tory Central Office, is something that covers both the pro's and con's of voting in, set against the pro's and con's of voting out. I really don't think that it's on for ANY government, regardless of persuasion, to reinforce its point at a cost to the electorate.

wouldn't we all... but....

I doubt that there will ever be any organisation that would be prepared to put out such a leaflet that wouldn't be immediately labelled as biased by one or both sides... seriously - who do you think would be acceptable to both sides to write such a thing - and be prepared to do it?

Then that leaflet, as I feel with this one, has no right in being produced at our expense, no? I can't be alone in having absolutely no fact-based idea which way to vote on the 23rd June. In fact, I know I'm not alone, but most people I know that've already nailed their colours to a mast have done so over a single issue rather than the overall effects.

There is some limited precedent around the Government producing a leaflet prior to a referendum (limited coz there's not been that many referendums) - when there has been one, the Government has produced a leaflet as far as I can tell. I do have some worse news for you - I posted previously that there might be a "couple of million" in postal costs for the two designated groups leaflet...clearly I forgot the Royal Mail had now been privatized.

The text of the leaflet is 16 pages in length. It will be delivered to households in England from 11 to 13 April, ahead of England’s local election purdah, and to households in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland throughout the week commencing 9 May, to avoid disrupting the pre-election period in those parts of the United Kingdom. The total cost will be £9.3 million, which is equivalent to 34p for each household in the country.

The Electoral Commission will shortly announce the designation of the two overall campaign groups, ahead of the 10-week official campaign period that leads up to polling day. Those two groups, in addition to having a higher spending limit of £7 million apiece, will each be entitled to the publicly funded delivery of a leaflet of its own, which will be sent to every household or to every elector, as the campaign group chooses. That benefit will be worth up to £15 million each for the designated leave and remain campaigns. The two campaigns will also be entitled to campaign broadcasts on television, the use of certain public rooms and a public grant of up to £600,000. That is in addition to the Electoral Commission’s own leaflet to every household, in which each campaign will be given a page.

The problem is establishing what are facts and what aren't, for either side. When you ask a simple(ish) question - there are wildly varying responses - not even remotely in the same ball-park.

[thebish]

I still find it odd that the government call a referendum to let the people decide but then use public money to try and persuade them to vote one way. Again though that goes back to the fact that I don't believe we should be having a referendum full stop!

I still don't get why you think the government (in letting the people decide) should therefore remain neutral. It is surely entirely legitimate that the govenment that those same people just elected with a majority on a manifesto that said they would campaign to stay in the EU after negotiations - should play a part in that debate? The "people" have said they want the Tories to lead the country on this issue and all others - they are simply doing what they were elected to do! Governments use "public money" - they don't have a private pot of money with which they govern the country - we give them money to do precisely that - after we elect them.

Simply because if the government have a strong view on the issue, I don't see the point of a referendum. Just like every other issue they're elected to make decisions. Why bother with a referendum? (No need to answer, I know why, but I find it a bit pointless).

we all know why!! Cameron was scared into it to neutralize the (as it turned out not very strong) threat of Farridge!!!

on the other matter, though - referendums are not held because the Gov doesn't have a strong view - and they can't make their minds up!!

[Hoboh]

Europhiles got two faced, sell out, Corbyn.

[Bruce Rioja]

I see that Corbyn got his message out this morning - for free.