Brexit or Britin

[Worthy4England]

I see that Corbyn got his message out this morning - for free.

I missed it! Had it been mailed to me I'd have still missed it....

[Bruce Rioja]

I see that Corbyn got his message out this morning - for free.

I missed it! Had it been mailed to me I'd have still missed it....

Oh I'm sure it'll be on the news.

[Worthy4England]

I'm washing my hair that day.

[Bruce Rioja]

Yeah, ok, I get that. What I'd really like to read though - most certainly if you and I are paying for it and not Tory Central Office, is something that covers both the pro's and con's of voting in, set against the pro's and con's of voting out. I really don't think that it's on for ANY government, regardless of persuasion, to reinforce its point at a cost to the electorate.

wouldn't we all... but....

I doubt that there will ever be any organisation that would be prepared to put out such a leaflet that wouldn't be immediately labelled as biased by one or both sides... seriously - who do you think would be acceptable to both sides to write such a thing - and be prepared to do it?

I was rather hoping that Mervyn King would come good on this.

[thebish]

Yeah, ok, I get that. What I'd really like to read though - most certainly if you and I are paying for it and not Tory Central Office, is something that covers both the pro's and con's of voting in, set against the pro's and con's of voting out. I really don't think that it's on for ANY government, regardless of persuasion, to reinforce its point at a cost to the electorate.

wouldn't we all... but....

I doubt that there will ever be any organisation that would be prepared to put out such a leaflet that wouldn't be immediately labelled as biased by one or both sides... seriously - who do you think would be acceptable to both sides to write such a thing - and be prepared to do it?

I was rather hoping that Mervyn King would come good on this.

he IS very much on the fence and wants to remain so... (he is perceived to be euro-sceptic, though, and might not be universally trusted as an impartial observer.) Such a leaflet as you propose, though, would have to address more than economic arguments - they are not the only potential consequence either way... Jezza suggests (with some justification I think) that there would be a bonfire of workers rights should we vote to leave (particularly if you have a quick peep at those likely to seize control of the Tory party in govt. should we vote out...) I'm not sure one person is qualified to comment impartially on the whole question - though mervyn would be eminently qualified to talk about potential economic ramifications part of the question...

he's been busy, I see, reminding folk that leaving the EU would not insulate us from the economic effects of a failing Euro-zone - it's not the perfect escape from euro-madness that some might present it as...

[Worthy4England]

I see that Corbyn got his message out this morning - for free.

I missed it! Had it been mailed to me I'd have still missed it....

Oh I'm sure it'll be on the news.

I've had a look now, and being honest, it's not the first time the concept of bonfires has been used in relation to the goings on at Westminster. It's fairly old thinking, but it might have some merit.

[Beefheart]

There are impartial 'fact checking' sites out there.

https://fullfact.org/europe/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[thebish]

The starter's pistol has fired and they're off!

the OUT! campaign has been busy..

they reckon we send £350million/week to the EU... this is not true - and fact-checker sites like the one Beefheart links to above suggest it is probably about £160million/week

anyway - yesterday I heard a debate where the chief OUTER was promising farmers that they would spend that £350million/week on more targetted subsidies for the British farming industry - saving it from utter collapse when the EU subsidies stop...

however - today - the outers are busy telling us that they will spend the £350million/week propping up the NHS

a few days ago I heard a prominent OUTER telling us that they would spend the £350million/week paying off our national debt...

how many times over will this £350million (so - the £160million plus an extra unspecified £190million/week from somewhere else) be spent?

meanwhile - the subtle impression is given that it will fix all of these things - when, in reality, it wouldn't fix even one of them...

[Hoboh]

The starter's pistol has fired and they're off!

the OUT! campaign has been busy..

they reckon we send £350million/week to the EU... this is not true - and fact-checker sites like the one Beefheart links to above suggest it is probably about £160million/week

anyway - yesterday I heard a debate where the chief OUTER was promising farmers that they would spend that £350million/week on more targetted subsidies for the British farming industry - saving it from utter collapse when the EU subsidies stop...

however - today - the outers are busy telling us that they will spend the £350million/week propping up the NHS

a few days ago I heard a prominent OUTER telling us that they would spend the £350million/week paying off our national debt...

how many times over will this £350million (so - the £160million plus an extra unspecified £190million/week from somewhere else) be spent?

meanwhile - the subtle impression is given that it will fix all of these things - when, in reality, it wouldn't fix even one of them...

The UK pays more into the EU budget than it gets back.

In 2015 the UK government paid £13 billion to the EU budget, and EU spending on the UK was £4.5 billion. So the UK’s ‘net contribution’ was estimated at about £8.5 billion.

Each year the UK gets an instant discount on its contributions to the EU—the ‘rebate’—worth almost £5 billion last year. Without it the UK would have been liable for £18 billion in contributions.

Even 160 mill per week is a billion or so short of the 'net' contribution.

Add that to the billion per month we send overseas and it gets frightening when austerity is the buzz word.

Oh, I forgot to add what happens if we vote to stay in and the others decide our 'rebate' is no longer valid? Gripped by the short and curly?

[Hoboh]

http://www.theguardian.com/business/201 ... t-72431876" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Oh dear, oh dear, if this isn't project fear then what is?

George you prick, the only way mortgage rates can go is up any way.

Stand by for droughts in the summer next.

[Hoboh]

Different figures from different sources

The Treasury's European Union Finances release provides the best figures for the UK’s contributions to the EU budget, according to the ONS.

The Treasury and ONS both publish figures on the subject, but they're slightly different. The ONS also publishes other figures on contributions to EU institutions which don't include all our payments or receipts, which complicates matters.

The ONS figures ultimately come from the Treasury, and the numbers aren't the same because they categorise and account for the payments differently.

The European Commission is still another source of information which shows lower contributions.

And you'd trust anything these feckers tell you with three separate sets of figures?
(I note the shady EU ones are lowest )

[Worthy4England]

Different figures from different sources

The Treasury's European Union Finances release provides the best figures for the UK’s contributions to the EU budget, according to the ONS.

The Treasury and ONS both publish figures on the subject, but they're slightly different. The ONS also publishes other figures on contributions to EU institutions which don't include all our payments or receipts, which complicates matters.

The ONS figures ultimately come from the Treasury, and the numbers aren't the same because they categorise and account for the payments differently.

The European Commission is still another source of information which shows lower contributions.

And you'd trust anything these feckers tell you with three separate sets of figures?
(I note the shady EU ones are lowest )

Being honest, I'm going to trust them way more than I'm going to trust yours!

[thebish]

Oh, I forgot to add what happens if we vote to stay in and the others decide our 'rebate' is no longer valid? Gripped by the short and curly?

project fear??

[Hoboh]

Different figures from different sources

The Treasury's European Union Finances release provides the best figures for the UK’s contributions to the EU budget, according to the ONS.

The Treasury and ONS both publish figures on the subject, but they're slightly different. The ONS also publishes other figures on contributions to EU institutions which don't include all our payments or receipts, which complicates matters.

The ONS figures ultimately come from the Treasury, and the numbers aren't the same because they categorise and account for the payments differently.

The European Commission is still another source of information which shows lower contributions.

And you'd trust anything these feckers tell you with three separate sets of figures?
(I note the shady EU ones are lowest )

Being honest, I'm going to trust them way more than I'm going to trust yours!

Mine came from the same sources

[Hoboh]

Oh, I forgot to add what happens if we vote to stay in and the others decide our 'rebate' is no longer valid? Gripped by the short and curly?

project fear??

Merely musing

Not scaremongering like Georgie though.

What do the experts say?

Osborne said that experts are “pretty clear” that prices would increase if voters choose to leave the 28-strong bloc in the referendum. But 17 of 26 economists in a Reuters poll this week said if Britain decides to leave the Bank’s next move would likely be a cut.

“If the UK votes to leave the EU, then the BoE is likely to cut interest rates to 0.25 percent, but also restart quantitative easing,” said Azad Zangana, London-based senior economist at asset management firm Schroders.

Kallum Pickering, senior UK economist at the bank Berenberg, said: “I think the most likely scenario following a Brexit, if the Bank of England are going to do either a hike or a cut, is a cut to bolster domestic demand and support credit markets.”

Pickering said the only reason to increase interest rates would be if a fall in sterling turned into a full-blown criss, akin to Black Wednesday in 1992, when sterling fell out of the European exchange rate mechanism (ERM).

“In the even of a sterling crisis, which is an extreme and low probability tail risk, the BoE might have no choice but to hike to defend the pound and fight off rising inflation. Even though hiking but be that would be the last thing the weakened domestic economy would need.”

[Worthy4England]

Different figures from different sources

The Treasury's European Union Finances release provides the best figures for the UK’s contributions to the EU budget, according to the ONS.

The Treasury and ONS both publish figures on the subject, but they're slightly different. The ONS also publishes other figures on contributions to EU institutions which don't include all our payments or receipts, which complicates matters.

The ONS figures ultimately come from the Treasury, and the numbers aren't the same because they categorise and account for the payments differently.

The European Commission is still another source of information which shows lower contributions.

And you'd trust anything these feckers tell you with three separate sets of figures?
(I note the shady EU ones are lowest )

Being honest, I'm going to trust them way more than I'm going to trust yours!

Mine came from the same sources

I know.

[Dujon]

When I read some of the above quotations, why is it that the voices of Paul Eddington and Nigel Hawthorne, interjected now and then by Derek Fowlds, override my own?

I suppose I'll work it out sometime, but "Even though hiking but be that would be the last thing the weakened domestic economy would need" is, you must admit, pure Hawthorne. Changing punctuation seems to be useless. The only way that sense can be made of the sentence is apparently by removing some words, which seems to me to be a literary form of butchery and a means to an end which the writer/speaker did not intend.

Carry on chaps, other than the possibility that this country might flog you a few more punnets of strawberries or supply you with a few more immigrants to fill the gap, there's nothing much in the current brouhaha over the ins and outs to which I could address any informed view.

[thebish]

I see the OUTERS are still parping on about the "fact" that we send the EU £350million every week.

we don't - we just don't. The rebate is deducted BEFORE we send any cash - we don't send it and then get some back. We absolutely DO NOT send £350million to the EU every week.

[Hoboh]

I see the OUTERS are still parping on about the "fact" that we send the EU £350million every week.

we don't - we just don't. The rebate is deducted BEFORE we send any cash - we don't send it and then get some back. We absolutely DO NOT send £350million to the EU every week.

And it's more than your imaginary 160

Next you will be telling us 5 million will be unemployed on the 24th of June if we vote out!

[Worthy4England]

I see the OUTERS are still parping on about the "fact" that we send the EU £350million every week.

we don't - we just don't. The rebate is deducted BEFORE we send any cash - we don't send it and then get some back. We absolutely DO NOT send £350million to the EU every week.

And it's more than your imaginary 160

Next you will be telling us 5 million will be unemployed on the 24th of June if we vote out!

Well, the out side shouldn't have a monopoly on talking complete bollocks. So that would be 5 million additional to what we have already - just for good measure...