Brexit or Britin

[Rjs37]

I get your points about it being in draft, but at the same time people are still entitled to discuss what the draft is currently proposing. That's usually what a draft is for, to get feedback and see what needs changing. But that draft is still based on years of negotiation, so surely you'd expect it to at least be fairly close to what the completed version will look like?

Even though I linked to that other article, I actually totally agree with you on the secrecy point. I've not read through the leaked documents, but I don't think the leak really revealed any new information. It probably confirmed stuff that was already being discussed, but most of the points post-leak seemed to be exactly the same as they were before. I think over in the US they were being a lot more secretive over the trade deals (more-so TPP), but TTIP was getting a decent amount of media coverage before the leaks happened.

I'll have a proper read through those ISDS links when I get chance. Cheers, they look very interesting. I do find it surprising how widespread ISDS already appears to be. For me, it sounds like such a horrible idea, making the governments culpable to corporations. I do think that we'll probably see a sizeable increase (potentially in both directions) in ISDS claims should TTIP (or something similar) get passed, due to the vastly different policies in place (especially health and environmental) across both sides of the Atlantic.

I think that only UKIP would have the audacity to bring us out of Europe without even having a referendum, though please don't take that as an endorsement for UKIP. I imagine that if we get an exception for the NHS like some in the government are calling for, then the UK government will give TTIP it's vote in any case. Possibly even without the exception.

[Worthy4England]

Sure - absolutely right that it's discussed. As I say - I'm not sure whether I'm in favour of it or not at the moment.

I think the issue around ISDS isn't necessarily as straightforwards as it might first appear. When we are attracting inward investment to the UK (regardless of whether we're in or out of the EU), we're asking a business to make, generally, a long term commitment to the UK, they should be entitled to have some clarity that they're going to get some return on that investment and a long term commitment from the UK back to the business. So in that sense, it makes sense. It wouldn't make sense as an unintended consequence.

The point I'm making at the end is if the EU change anything to an extent that it's not acceptable to our elected government, they can, if they wish choose to leave the EU, without asking us or anyone else.

[Montreal Wanderer]

Trump votes Brexit. Does this change any minds?

[Worthy4England]

Trump votes Brexit. Does this change any minds?

Firms up my resolve.

[Bruce Rioja]

Trump votes Brexit. Does this change any minds?

That's me voting in then.

[thebish]

Trump votes Brexit. Does this change any minds?

Firms up my resolve.

Hobes will be FURIOUS that an interfering american would have an opinion! just wait.... he'll be on in a minute to say how furious he is...

[Rjs37]

Okay let's see if I can spin that awful bit of PR that is known simply as Trump. As an aside I wish he'd kept his mouth shut on the subject lol.

To be fair, he at least has some vested interest in the UK with his investments in UK businesses. Being the type of character (greedy and self-absorbed) that he is, he's obviously not thinking about America's best interests with what he said but instead his own.

With that in mind, he'll be looking at what would be best for his investments and surely by extension what is good for business in general and therefore the economy? If there's anything that Trump does know (debatable I know), then its business.


How'd I do? Okay I give up

[Worthy4England]

Good try!

[Montreal Wanderer]

Trump has not ruled out the use of nuclear weapons in Europe. He would obviously prefer the UK, where he has investments, would not be part of Europe when the bomb goes bang.

[thebish]

Trump has not ruled out the use of nuclear weapons in Europe. He would obviously prefer the UK, where he has investments, would not be part of Europe when the bomb goes bang.

aye - cos not being part of europe would shield us from any fallout... I wouldn't put it past Trump to have thought that!

[Prufrock]

We can build a wall!!

[bobo the clown]

^^^ all of those councils who declared themselves Nuclear Free Zones. The lucky, lucky b@stards.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

We can build a wall!!

Lets say it's to keep Trump out and get him to pay for it

[Rjs37]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05 ... 1462707767" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And the scare tactics continue from Osborne. The government really do seem to be trying their best to drive Euro-sceptic Tory supporters to UKIP.

I really hope he doesn't get in after DC steps down.

[Lord Kangana]

Hang on, why are we having a referendum other than because of fear? Fear of those nasty Europeans who take our/jobs/money/eat our babies/whatever The Daily Mail editorial made up this week?

[TANGODANCER]

So James Bond and M and co have now weighed into the argument. Wonder if Ian Fleming could see the future when he called his characters Moneypenney and Goodnight, or even Pussies Galore?

[Hoboh]

Hang on, why are we having a referendum other than because of fear? Fear of those nasty Europeans who take our/jobs/money/eat our babies/whatever The Daily Mail editorial made up this week?

Mistrust, not fear.

[Hoboh]

Trump votes Brexit. Does this change any minds?

Firms up my resolve.

Hobes will be FURIOUS that an interfering american would have an opinion! just wait.... he'll be on in a minute to say how furious he is...

Actually, I'm praying Merkel opens her trap.

(She won't though)

On Trump, he should keep out as well.

[Hoboh]

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/ca ... ocid=edgsp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And the Sun will stop coming over from the continent as well Dave.

If this is the case, given we know who are our enemies in Europe, best dig up Sir Winston and for good measure Lord Nelson and the Iron Duke.

Project Bull shit is now on stream.

[thebish]

Don't worry hobes - sanity will return to the debate... Boris is getting on his measured-response bus...

Former mayer of London, Boris John Johnson vowed to produce some "pretty nasty surprises" before embarking on a red bus tour across the UK to make the case for a Brexit.