Brexit or Britin

[bedwetter2]

Really, consumer buying of chocolate and watches isn't going to make much of a dent against their much larger exports - precious metals/pharmachem. So unlikely to make a difference at a consumer level.
Having duty on large scale volumes of precious metals and pharma-chem products which is 50% of their export base, might be more of a problem...

I remember a previous company which I worked for in 1972 before UK membership of the common market (EEC?) had a mine in Neuchatel which supplied raw materials to the UK for processing. It probably wouldn't have an adverse effect even now if the same situation applied. I can't see much likelihood of significant tariffs on exported goods which were in demand whether it be la Roche drugs or cuckoo clocks.

Prufrock is correct regarding services but I gave a couple of examples of those which the EU would find difficult to take mean-spirited action on. It would be a case of the EU cutting off their noses to spite their faces which could quickly evolve into a tit for tat with the probable loser being the European Union following major pressure from users stopped from going about their lawful business.

[Worthy4England]

Really, consumer buying of chocolate and watches isn't going to make much of a dent against their much larger exports - precious metals/pharmachem. So unlikely to make a difference at a consumer level.
Having duty on large scale volumes of precious metals and pharma-chem products which is 50% of their export base, might be more of a problem...

I remember a previous company which I worked for in 1972 before UK membership of the common market (EEC?) had a mine in Neuchatel which supplied raw materials to the UK for processing. It probably wouldn't have an adverse effect even now if the same situation applied. I can't see much likelihood of significant tariffs on exported goods which were in demand whether it be la Roche drugs or cuckoo clocks.

Prufrock is correct regarding services but I gave a couple of examples of those which the EU would find difficult to take mean-spirited action on. It would be a case of the EU cutting off their noses to spite their faces which could quickly evolve into a tit for tat with the probable loser being the European Union following major pressure from users stopped from going about their lawful business.

I'm delighted to be re-assured that so many HUGE nasty things will occur if we remain and nothing of any consequence whatsoever will occur if we leave.

[bedwetter2]

Really, consumer buying of chocolate and watches isn't going to make much of a dent against their much larger exports - precious metals/pharmachem. So unlikely to make a difference at a consumer level.
Having duty on large scale volumes of precious metals and pharma-chem products which is 50% of their export base, might be more of a problem...

I remember a previous company which I worked for in 1972 before UK membership of the common market (EEC?) had a mine in Neuchatel which supplied raw materials to the UK for processing. It probably wouldn't have an adverse effect even now if the same situation applied. I can't see much likelihood of significant tariffs on exported goods which were in demand whether it be la Roche drugs or cuckoo clocks.

Prufrock is correct regarding services but I gave a couple of examples of those which the EU would find difficult to take mean-spirited action on. It would be a case of the EU cutting off their noses to spite their faces which could quickly evolve into a tit for tat with the probable loser being the European Union following major pressure from users stopped from going about their lawful business.

I'm delighted to be re-assured that so many HUGE nasty things will occur if we remain and nothing of any consequence whatsoever will occur if we leave.

I'm delighted that you are delighted It sounds like a win/win on the avoidance of HUGE nasty things.

[Worthy4England]

[Hoboh]

^^^ If he's happy, I'm sceptical!

[Hoboh]

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... referendum" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Across the UK, nearly 12% of the 2.1 million construction workers come from abroad, official figures show – mainly from the EU. Experts say the actual number is probably even higher. Poland and Romania are the most common countries of origin.

The construction industry employs 324,000 fewer workers than it did in 2008, before the financial crisis and recession led to a slump in housebuilding and other construction projects, prompting companies to slash their workforces. This has made the sector heavily reliant on construction workers from eastern Europe and the rest of the EU, as it takes years to train skilled tradespeople.

All fcukin' died then?

or is Peter the Pole cheaper?

Vote remain, we will find the cheap labour option and keep costs down for the middle/upper class, sod the rank and file workers.

yep, it's that old chestnut of job stealing again.

[bedwetter2]

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... referendum

Across the UK, nearly 12% of the 2.1 million construction workers come from abroad, official figures show – mainly from the EU. Experts say the actual number is probably even higher. Poland and Romania are the most common countries of origin.

The construction industry employs 324,000 fewer workers than it did in 2008, before the financial crisis and recession led to a slump in housebuilding and other construction projects, prompting companies to slash their workforces. This has made the sector heavily reliant on construction workers from eastern Europe and the rest of the EU, as it takes years to train skilled tradespeople.

All fcukin' died then?

or is Peter the Pole cheaper?

Vote remain, we will find the cheap labour option and keep costs down for the middle/upper class, sod the rank and file workers.




Possibly viewed by some here as anecdotal and unrepresentative, my brother in law runs a building business in that there Londaahn doing mainly house extensions or small developments. He employs Romanians almost exclusively because he has to compete with other companies which do the same. The average rate of pay per day is £50, down from £60 per day in the earlier part of 2015 before there had been an influx of Romanians and Bulgarians.

£250 per 5 day week! How many of the British construction workers would take that? That alone explains the missing 300k+ British construction workers. Apparently, the Romanians are quite single-minded and are prepared to endure living 6 or more to a small flat saving up their income to send back home. They are prepared to do this for up to 5 years before returning home to be the richest man in their village. The real eye-opener is that one of his employees is a qualified pharmacist and the others tend to be tradesmen (plumbers, electricians, etc) rather than just labourers.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

I may be being naive here, but don't we have a minimum wage? If so, then surely we enforce that and raise it to a level that is both sustainable and liveable? We can then let people compete for jobs on merit, and lets face it, if you can't compete with a foreigner working in their 2nd/3rd language doing an unskilled job then you need to have a word with yourself.

[Worthy4England]

In fairness, it is anecdotal. And may or may not be representative.

I seem to recall when we were discussing your mate Woodford's commissioned report that sector level problems and trade tariffs didn't amount to a "hill of beans" coz the macro-economics were broadly neutral. Sobackatya (that's Bulgarian that is!).

When we're talking about Brexit impacts, fcuk single sectors and any business for who the change in the status quo sends them to the wall, it's fine at the top level, when we're talking remain/current situation Big Norm the plumber giving up construction work because Vlad's asking ten quid a week less and isn't a slackass Monday to Friday because it's double bubble cash in hand on Saturday and Sunday is the centre of the universe?

Oh how I LoLed.

Anyhow. based on the above commentary we need a new headline "Brexit will lead to more homelessness on account of there being not enough houses built"

[Hoboh]

I may be being naive here, but don't we have a minimum wage? If so, then surely we enforce that and raise it to a level that is both sustainable and liveable? We can then let people compete for jobs on merit, and lets face it, if you can't compete with a foreigner working in their 2nd/3rd language doing an unskilled job then you need to have a word with yourself.

I know brickies and roofers who could earn £120-140 per day on site so £7.20PH is hardly likely to attract them.

BTW ever seen the state of 'built' houses in Bulgaria? Feckin' eye opener.

[Hoboh]

In fairness, it is anecdotal. And may or may not be representative.

I seem to recall when we were discussing your mate Woodford's commissioned report that sector level problems and trade tariffs didn't amount to a "hill of beans" coz the macro-economics were broadly neutral. Sobackatya (that's Bulgarian that is!).

When we're talking about Brexit impacts, fcuk single sectors and any business for who the change in the status quo sends them to the wall, it's fine at the top level, when we're talking remain/current situation Big Norm the plumber giving up construction work because Vlad's asking ten quid a week less and isn't a slackass Monday to Friday because it's double bubble cash in hand on Saturday and Sunday is the centre of the universe?

Oh how I LoLed.

Anyhow. based on the above commentary we need a new headline "Brexit will lead to more homelessness on account of there being not enough houses built"

It's a lot more than £10 a week less matey.

We wouldn't need loads of extra homes but for the 3,000,000 extra intake over the last decade or so and the numbers still rising.

[Worthy4England]

I may be being naive here, but don't we have a minimum wage? If so, then surely we enforce that and raise it to a level that is both sustainable and liveable? We can then let people compete for jobs on merit, and lets face it, if you can't compete with a foreigner working in their 2nd/3rd language doing an unskilled job then you need to have a word with yourself.

I know brickies and roofers who could earn £120-140 per day on site so £7.20PH is hardly likely to attract them.

BTW ever seen the state of 'built' houses in Bulgaria? Feckin' eye opener.

That's why we get all those nice regulations from the EU that you piss and moan about!

[Worthy4England]

In fairness, it is anecdotal. And may or may not be representative.

I seem to recall when we were discussing your mate Woodford's commissioned report that sector level problems and trade tariffs didn't amount to a "hill of beans" coz the macro-economics were broadly neutral. Sobackatya (that's Bulgarian that is!).

When we're talking about Brexit impacts, fcuk single sectors and any business for who the change in the status quo sends them to the wall, it's fine at the top level, when we're talking remain/current situation Big Norm the plumber giving up construction work because Vlad's asking ten quid a week less and isn't a slackass Monday to Friday because it's double bubble cash in hand on Saturday and Sunday is the centre of the universe?

Oh how I LoLed.

Anyhow. based on the above commentary we need a new headline "Brexit will lead to more homelessness on account of there being not enough houses built"

It's a lot more than £10 a week less matey.

We wouldn't need loads of extra homes but for the 3,000,000 extra intake over the last decade or so and the numbers still rising.

So there'd still be no jobs for them then? Do try and think this stuff through before rambling on.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

I may be being naive here, but don't we have a minimum wage? If so, then surely we enforce that and raise it to a level that is both sustainable and liveable? We can then let people compete for jobs on merit, and lets face it, if you can't compete with a foreigner working in their 2nd/3rd language doing an unskilled job then you need to have a word with yourself.

I know brickies and roofers who could earn £120-140 per day on site so £7.20PH is hardly likely to attract them.

BTW ever seen the state of 'built' houses in Bulgaria? Feckin' eye opener.

If they can earn £120-£140 per day then they aren't being edged out of work by Romanians being paid £50 a day are they? My question is why are the people mentioned by bw2 being edged out of work? I don't doubt they are, but by my reckoning £50 a day is less than the minimum wage.

[Prufrock]

In fairness, it is anecdotal. And may or may not be representative.

I seem to recall when we were discussing your mate Woodford's commissioned report that sector level problems and trade tariffs didn't amount to a "hill of beans" coz the macro-economics were broadly neutral. Sobackatya (that's Bulgarian that is!).

When we're talking about Brexit impacts, fcuk single sectors and any business for who the change in the status quo sends them to the wall, it's fine at the top level, when we're talking remain/current situation Big Norm the plumber giving up construction work because Vlad's asking ten quid a week less and isn't a slackass Monday to Friday because it's double bubble cash in hand on Saturday and Sunday is the centre of the universe?

Oh how I LoLed.

Anyhow. based on the above commentary we need a new headline "Brexit will lead to more homelessness on account of there being not enough houses built"

It's a lot more than £10 a week less matey.

We wouldn't need loads of extra homes but for the 3,000,000 extra intake over the last decade or so and the numbers still rising.

So there'd still be no jobs for them then? Do try and think this stuff through before rambling on.

This has cheered me up this morning

[Worthy4England]

Glad to have been of a small amount of assistance, but Hoboh does the main bits.

[bedwetter2]

In fairness, it is anecdotal. And may or may not be representative.

I seem to recall when we were discussing your mate Woodford's commissioned report that sector level problems and trade tariffs didn't amount to a "hill of beans" coz the macro-economics were broadly neutral. Sobackatya (that's Bulgarian that is!).

When we're talking about Brexit impacts, fcuk single sectors and any business for who the change in the status quo sends them to the wall, it's fine at the top level, when we're talking remain/current situation Big Norm the plumber giving up construction work because Vlad's asking ten quid a week less and isn't a slackass Monday to Friday because it's double bubble cash in hand on Saturday and Sunday is the centre of the universe?

Oh how I LoLed.

Anyhow. based on the above commentary we need a new headline "Brexit will lead to more homelessness on account of there being not enough houses built"

No it ain't.
You really should take up a new job in keeping with your analytical skills; politics perhaps.
Big Norm (it's Big Wayne, for your information) did not give up construction work; construction work gave up Big Wayne. Laid off by a large or regional construction company in 2008 or 9 when the economy got distinctly chilly he kept applying for jobs to suit his skills elsewhere but found out that Carillion, Balfour Beatty, Skanska et al had laid off 150k people like him. The housebuilders stopped building houses around the same time due to lack of demand so laying off a further 150K. He gave up on remaining in construction and became a shelf-stacker at Asda as an interim job.
After a while he got a supervisor role and Big Wayne started to think "this is better than working in cold and muddy conditions". He is happy now and has moved a bit further up the ladder whilst doing a bit of moonlight plumbing to supplement his income.
Construction has not recovered from the shock to the system in 2008/9 and output is still lower than it was in 2006 despite inflation in the intervening period. The large construction companies reorganised their business models to be less reliant on the UK market. The smaller companies largely dependent upon house building and renovation had little alternative but to employ imports as so many people in the UK had left the sector. The immigrants taking the vacated jobs are numerous and are competing with each other thus driving down rates (the minimum wage does not apply if they are employed as sub-contractor on fixed prices per week).
Neil Woodford has a better rep than you in economics and you shouldn't dis him

[bedwetter2]

I may be being naive here, but don't we have a minimum wage? If so, then surely we enforce that and raise it to a level that is both sustainable and liveable? We can then let people compete for jobs on merit, and lets face it, if you can't compete with a foreigner working in their 2nd/3rd language doing an unskilled job then you need to have a word with yourself.

I know brickies and roofers who could earn £120-140 per day on site so £7.20PH is hardly likely to attract them.

BTW ever seen the state of 'built' houses in Bulgaria? Feckin' eye opener.

If they can earn £120-£140 per day then they aren't being edged out of work by Romanians being paid £50 a day are they? My question is why are the people mentioned by bw2 being edged out of work? I don't doubt they are, but by my reckoning £50 a day is less than the minimum wage.

Please see below. Or above

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

I may be being naive here, but don't we have a minimum wage? If so, then surely we enforce that and raise it to a level that is both sustainable and liveable? We can then let people compete for jobs on merit, and lets face it, if you can't compete with a foreigner working in their 2nd/3rd language doing an unskilled job then you need to have a word with yourself.

I know brickies and roofers who could earn £120-140 per day on site so £7.20PH is hardly likely to attract them.

BTW ever seen the state of 'built' houses in Bulgaria? Feckin' eye opener.

If they can earn £120-£140 per day then they aren't being edged out of work by Romanians being paid £50 a day are they? My question is why are the people mentioned by bw2 being edged out of work? I don't doubt they are, but by my reckoning £50 a day is less than the minimum wage.

Please see below. Or above

Thanks.

I still think the system is at fault. There is demand for houses to be built, lots of them, but the housebuilders don't want to build lots of them. Government policy is at fault, as they could easily ensure the houses get built and provide the jobs lost in 2008. Lets not forget how much prices have gone up since then due to lack of affordable supply. Immigration hasn't helped, but government policy for a long time has far more to answer for.

[bedwetter2]

I may be being naive here, but don't we have a minimum wage? If so, then surely we enforce that and raise it to a level that is both sustainable and liveable? We can then let people compete for jobs on merit, and lets face it, if you can't compete with a foreigner working in their 2nd/3rd language doing an unskilled job then you need to have a word with yourself.

I know brickies and roofers who could earn £120-140 per day on site so £7.20PH is hardly likely to attract them.

BTW ever seen the state of 'built' houses in Bulgaria? Feckin' eye opener.

That's why we get all those nice regulations from the EU that you piss and moan about!

Ha ha. Do you really believe that Building Regs are policed in the same way as the UK in Spain or Portugal, never mind Bulgaria or Romania? Bribery is a way of life in those advanced new members of the EU. Wait until Turkey gets in.