Brexit or Britin

[Hoboh]

I'm finding it hard to believe (although I shouldn't really) that the UK components are so very ready ( almost overnight) to believe that they can just stick passport control cabins up on the borders of their respective camps and become suddenly independent selling kilts and bottled Guinness. . It's our combined futures we're talking about here, not the European Cup.

Er, you mean the way these components voted differently to England and have their combined futures affected by the result?

Being part of the UK in the EU was part of the y'know, vow, the deal, the terms and conditions outlined shortly before that vote. Any Scottish voter who went for No because of the talk of Independence threatening Scotland's position in the EU is going to be scratching his head at this moment.

I'm not really sure what Tango is on about - but the prospect of border controls is a very real one on that soon-to-be new EU/non-EU border between NI and the ROI... how exactly will we/they stop people crossing at will with goods or people traffic? surly not a return to the roadblocks that will remind people of the troubles? The vote we had yesterday suggests that we are indeed very ready to do the thing he sounds so incredulous about...

I honestly think little will change in regard of the border in Ireland, the rules may change but stuff will continue across all the minor roads like it always has done, even at the height of the troubles.
A lad I once worked with did three tours on the Irish border and basically said if it wasn't weapons they turned a blind eye to everything else, including waggon loads of fuel.

[Lord Kangana]

You're not quite getting this are you?

Let me help.

1) No troops, legally carry stuff across the border
2) Er, nope.

[Hoboh]

You're not quite getting this are you?

Let me help.

1) No troops, legally carry stuff across the border
2) Er, nope.

Eh? listening to folk from remain you would think barbed wire fences and mass border patrols.

You aren't getting it, project fear is DEAD!

[TANGODANCER]

I'm finding it hard to believe (although I shouldn't really) that the UK components are so very ready ( almost overnight) to believe that they can just stick passport control cabins up on the borders of their respective camps and become suddenly independent selling kilts and bottled Guinness. . It's our combined futures we're talking about here, not the European Cup.

Er, you mean the way these components voted differently to England and have their combined futures affected by the result?

Being part of the UK in the EU was part of the y'know, vow, the deal, the terms and conditions outlined shortly before that vote. Any Scottish voter who went for No because of the talk of Independence threatening Scotland's position in the EU is going to be scratching his head at this moment.

I used the word "combined" on purpose J. What will happen or is needed I know not, politics just isn't my thing, except that seperatism surely isn't the answer. Do we really need a glorified Celtic and Rangers, Northern Ireland and the Republic situation as the United Kingdom regardless of the reasons. I voted out for the same reason I voted Conservative at the last election, because it seemed the best option and, in the case of this election to escape Brussels control which people far more informed than me stated we needed to do. I was a lifelong Labour voter but saw Cameron as experienced and without any serious opposition in the brains department of the Labour government. Not even really sure why he's resigned as, being the Prime Minister the country's needs and not his own should have been the priority regardless of the referendum result. He's made it a personal issue when he should have stood up and said, "okay, I'll do all I can to make the people's decision work" In that respect I feel more than a little let down.

[TANGODANCER]

I'm not really sure what Tango is on about - but the prospect of border controls is a very real one on that soon-to-be new EU/non-EU border between NI and the ROI... how exactly will we/they stop people crossing at will with goods or people traffic? surly not a return to the roadblocks that will remind people of the troubles? The vote we had yesterday suggests that we are indeed very ready to do the thing he sounds so incredulous about...

If you try very hard, I'm sure you could manage at least one day in your life without feeding your obsessive desire of using my posts or name to feed your demeaning sarcasm. Do try....

[Harry Genshaw]

I really can't stand Farage, but I've seen so many people on Twitter regurgitating the garbage that is his interview concerning the NHS not getting the £350m.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know Farage never even made that claim. It was Vote Leave who were making that claim and had it plastered on their bus etc. So until Boris and Gove come out and say it isn't happening then it's a completely moot point.

It's like holding Jeremy Corbyn responsible for a claim that David Cameron made.

I do still expect them to back-peddle on the promise, because we all know that the actual net value (after we get funding back) is about half of that amount. Whether the remaining amount will end up at the NHS or not I really don't know. I hope it does because I want to see them at least partially deliver on that promise.

Well he was very quick to point it out after the result. Perhaps, you know, considering he clearly saw it as a bogus claim, in the interests of honesty he might have said so before the vote....

given he was pretty much ostracised by the LEAVE campaign, I can't see it would have had much effect. that claim was on BORIS'S bus...

Actually I don't think it was. The bus is about to be rebadged and used by Will Young on tour oddly! I saw a piece on the beeb today - it never said "We will spend £350m on the NHS" - not that Farage, who isn't in the government could make that promise anyway

[thebish]

You're claiming it wasn't on Boris's bus?

[Lord Kangana]

You're not quite getting this are you?

Let me help.

1) No troops, legally carry stuff across the border
2) Er, nope.

Eh? listening to folk from remain you would think barbed wire fences and mass border patrols.

You aren't getting it, project fear is DEAD!

So the border will still be open without restriction? A simple yes or no would do.

[Harry Genshaw]

You're claiming it wasn't on Boris's bus?

I am. It didn't say "we'll spend £350m on the nhs"

[Armchair Wanderer]

[BWFC_Insane]

You're claiming it wasn't on Boris's bus?

I am. It didn't say "we'll spend £350m on the nhs"

The leave poster said 'Lets give our NHS the £350m the EU takes every week'

That is pretty clear.

[Harry Genshaw]

You're claiming it wasn't on Boris's bus?

I am. It didn't say "we'll spend £350m on the nhs"

The leave poster said 'Lets give our NHS the £350m the EU takes every week'

That is pretty clear.

The leave bus didn't. I hadn't seen the poster!

Still wasn't something Farage could promise since he wasn't/isn't /never will be in government

[BWFC_Insane]

I'm finding it hard to believe (although I shouldn't really) that the UK components are so very ready ( almost overnight) to believe that they can just stick passport control cabins up on the borders of their respective camps and become suddenly independent selling kilts and bottled Guinness. . It's our combined futures we're talking about here, not the European Cup.

Er, you mean the way these components voted differently to England and have their combined futures affected by the result?

Being part of the UK in the EU was part of the y'know, vow, the deal, the terms and conditions outlined shortly before that vote. Any Scottish voter who went for No because of the talk of Independence threatening Scotland's position in the EU is going to be scratching his head at this moment.

I used the word "combined" on purpose J. What will happen or is needed I know not, politics just isn't my thing, except that seperatism surely isn't the answer. Do we really need a glorified Celtic and Rangers, Northern Ireland and the Republic situation as the United Kingdom regardless of the reasons. I voted out for the same reason I voted Conservative at the last election, because it seemed the best option and, in the case of this election to escape Brussels control which people far more informed than me stated we needed to do. I was a lifelong Labour voter but saw Cameron as experienced and without any serious opposition in the brains department of the Labour government. Not even really sure why he's resigned as, being the Prime Minister the country's needs and not his own should have been the priority regardless of the referendum result. He's made it a personal issue when he should have stood up and said, "okay, I'll do all I can to make the people's decision work" In that respect I feel more than a little let down.

Separatism isn't your thing yet you wanted to leave the EU?

I mean Westminster is quite possibly Scotland's version of the EU. Being run by people they don't elect and don't want. Have you thought of that?

Also what choice did Cameron have? Told everyone how disastrous he believed leaving would be. He could then hardly stay on and pretend he believes he can make it ok. One of the few decisions I really respect him for making. Could have hung around and clung on but made a decent decision. Ultimately he had little choice, was just a question of when.

[TANGODANCER]

Separatism isn't your thing yet you wanted to leave the EU?

I mean Westminster is quite possibly Scotland's version of the EU. Being run by people they don't elect and don't want. Have you thought of that? Also what choice did Cameron have? Told everyone how disastrous he believed leaving would be. He could then hardly stay on and pretend he believes he can make it ok. One of the few decisions I really respect him for making. Could have hung around and clung on but made a decent decision. Ultimately he had little choice, was just a question of when.

Do be realistic mate. There's just a real difference in splitting the UK apart than cutting ourselves off from Brussels and the rest which the referendum was all about. "Make sure you have your passport ready for a day trip to Pwlleli or Aberystwyth" or
" Massive queues at Gretna Green border control as Scottish Custom workers hold a one day strike" . Splendid.

[bobo the clown]

I think there's a version of the EU there'd be an overwhelming majority for. Basically a trading block with the eu keeping it's neb out of everything that wasn't standardisation, and free movement limited to travel and maybe freedom to move permanently if you already had a job offer/ sponsor.

I think plenty of remainers myself included would want that as the ideal, but thought we couldn't get it and would be better off in as now than completely out.

I think plenty of leavers would want that as the ideal but thought that either: voting out would get us that, or, we couldn't get it and would be better off completely out than in as now.

Only problem is I don't think there's a hope in hell the EU will go for that (which it's a shame as there'll be a hell of a wobble now in France, Holland Greece and more).

Nevertheless there is a conversation that Boris' people are or will have very soon along the lines of "So you have Cameron f*ck all because you thought we'd stay. Fancy changing your mind?".

In the absence of their surprise agreement, or 2008 style armageddon in the UK alone, we're leaving, and folk need to stop signing daft petitions. I don't like it either, but we lost. What's happens if there's another referendum and remain win and leave start a petition?

You've more or less described the EEC Pru. An entity I voted to be in and would still.

The EU however. Quite a different thing.

[Worthy4England]

Can we just get on and leave, please? Debate done. We need people to deliver on their promises and move on. I want Boris/Gove in positions of power so they can execute what they promised. I'd like Farage in some capacity to represent "the working man". I really wouldn't want it to confuse the next election on the basis "It's nearly sorted bit it'll take another 5 years to filter through and the reason it's not happened yet is the EU is screwing us"

[Hoboh]

Both Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton stressed the endurance of a special relationship with the UK and their respect for its decision, but hinted at challenges ahead.

“Yesterday’s vote speaks to the ongoing changes and challenges that are raised by globalisation,” said Obama during a trip to Silicon Valley, revealing he had called David Cameron and Angela Merkel to discuss the referendum and Britain’s “orderly transition” out of the EU.

“Our first task has to be to make sure that the economic uncertainty created by these events does not hurt working families here in America,” said Clinton, the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee, in a lukewarm statement.

In an apparent swipe at the presumptive Republican nominee, Donald Trump, who welcomed Brexit during a visit to Scotland, Clinton added: “This time of uncertainty only underscores the need for calm, steady, experienced leadership.

“It also underscores the need for us to pull together to solve our challenges as a country, not tear each other down.”

Later, a senior state department official told the Guardian: “This is obviously not the outcome that either of our governments wanted but it’s democracy and so we’re moving on. We have to. It’s just too important not to. The relationship’s too important, the issues that we’re working with the UK on are too vital.

“You name it: Afghanistan, Ukraine, Syria, the Asia-Pacific region. The Brits are such a key partner on so many issues that it’s just too important to allow this to derail a lot of that cooperation.”

Referring to the secretary of state, John Kerry, the official added: “The secretary’s demeanour this morning was focused and he made it very clear in the morning staff meeting that it’s over, the decision’s been made and we’re moving on. We’re going to approach this in a calm, deliberate, measured manner and that was his entire demeanour this morning.

“He was very clear that we have to stay calm on this and he also said we have to recognise that this will be a potentially lengthy process here. There’s no reason to get panicked about it or to get overly excited about it.”

Sate department spokesperson John Kirby said Kerry had spoken with British foreign secretary Philip Hammond.

“Nothing’s going to change about the deep and abiding relationship we have with the UK, which is a special relationship,” Kirby told reporters. “We’re going to continue to work hard with the UK and the EU as they work through what this decision means across an array of specific issues. We absolutely, fully respect the will of the British people here.”

I thought we were going to get chopped off at the knee if we left according to remain?

Give it a couple of days and the world will settle down, would not surprise me in the least if the Euro takes a pounding soon.
More so when Greek debt and the spending black hole emerges, it'll be reet.

[Hoboh]

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Some people just cannot get over losing can they?

Just been reading about some of the young complaining about a 'bunch of pensioners' doing this to us, if they got off their lazy butts and voted it may have made a difference, I also read some of the feck* turned up at Glastonbury thinking there would be a polling station there.
Some of the tools want an independent London as well, is it any wonder the older generations take no notice of the molly coddled half wits?

[BWFC_Insane]

Separatism isn't your thing yet you wanted to leave the EU?

I mean Westminster is quite possibly Scotland's version of the EU. Being run by people they don't elect and don't want. Have you thought of that? Also what choice did Cameron have? Told everyone how disastrous he believed leaving would be. He could then hardly stay on and pretend he believes he can make it ok. One of the few decisions I really respect him for making. Could have hung around and clung on but made a decent decision. Ultimately he had little choice, was just a question of when.

Do be realistic mate. There's just a real difference in splitting the UK apart than cutting ourselves off from Brussels and the rest which the referendum was all about. "Make sure you have your passport ready for a day trip to Pwlleli or Aberystwyth" or
" Massive queues at Gretna Green border control as Scottish Custom workers hold a one day strike" . Splendid.

There might be to you, but imagine you are Scottish and for decades have been under a government for the most part you never voted for and can do nothing about. Do you not see why they may feel the way they do?

I like you want the UK to stay as one but I can very clearly see why some Scots have the issue they do. I don't agree with Sturgeon's separatist policies. But I do respect her and feel she speaks to the voters who elected her immeasurably better than anyone at Westminster does.

[Harry Genshaw]

Can we just get on and leave, please? Debate done. We need people to deliver on their promises and move on. I want Boris/Gove in positions of power so they can execute what they promised. I'd like Farage in some capacity to represent "the working man". I really wouldn't want it to confuse the next election on the basis "It's nearly sorted bit it'll take another 5 years to filter through and the reason it's not happened yet is the EU is screwing us"

Why rush?

Isn't it in all our interests to leave when it suits us, with the best deal possible?.