Would it have been better/cheaper to redevelop Burnden Park?

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Re: Would it have been better/cheaper to redevelop Burnden P

Post by Prufrock » Mon Feb 13, 2017 10:09 am

Our current average ticket price (I assume that's the average figure paid per arse-on-seat, so lowered by kids and season ticket holders) is less than £9 isn't it, and was last year in the Champo too. Even generously upping that to £10 (for the Prem, though inflation means I wouldn't be surprised if they weren't that much higher then. Plus I'm sure we had those £49 kids season tickets for a few years then), and generously assuming 25 home games per season, that's [an extra 1k on the attendance per week] only an extra £250k a season. Or about 6 months of Darren Pratley.

F*ck it, double that and it's barely £10m since we moved to the 'Bok. Considering we've spent most of the time since in the Premiership that's f*ck all in the scheme of things, even with some pretty generous maths.
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Re: Would it have been better/cheaper to redevelop Burnden P

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Feb 13, 2017 10:30 am

I think the issue at the time, was clear, we couldn't feasibly redevelop Burnden nor did it make sense when a business case was examined.

The move made sense. The issues as I see them were three fold

1) We didn't get what was expected for the sale of Burnden land.

2) The cost of the stadium - we paid a premium price for a premium design. Others built far bigger stadiums for less than the "Reebok" cost.

3) The model when all this was planned, mid 90's was that commercial revenue from the hotel, events, offices and corporate stuff would provide additional useful revenue for the club. This was at a time when football costs were still manageable and that additional revenue would be significant. However, over the next decade football costs skyrocketed and the additional commercial income wouldn't make all that much difference. Also that revenue fluctuated (as you'd expect from any events centre) and at times was more a drain than it was a benefit, given staff and running costs.

All in all, we don't need half the facilities the ground provides (now) and certainly don't need the ground to look like a spaceship or whatever when viewed aerially.

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Re: Would it have been better/cheaper to redevelop Burnden P

Post by Prufrock » Mon Feb 13, 2017 11:03 am

Aye, but we've been to the brink and back at least once since. Not like the cost of building it has been a factor for donkeys. At the very worst it's an extra £x ED will never see again, though I suspect it went well before that.
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Re: Would it have been better/cheaper to redevelop Burnden P

Post by nelson66 » Mon Feb 13, 2017 11:56 am

reebok cost £25mil for a 28,000 seater stadium
stadium of light was built at the same time - cost £15mil to build a 48,000 seater stadium
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Re: Would it have been better/cheaper to redevelop Burnden P

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Feb 13, 2017 12:29 pm

nelson66 wrote:reebok cost £25mil for a 28,000 seater stadium
stadium of light was built at the same time - cost £15mil to build a 48,000 seater stadium
£35M for Reebok!

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Re: Would it have been better/cheaper to redevelop Burnden P

Post by Hoboh » Mon Feb 13, 2017 12:41 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
nelson66 wrote:reebok cost £25mil for a 28,000 seater stadium
stadium of light was built at the same time - cost £15mil to build a 48,000 seater stadium
£35M for Reebok!
Aye, it started at 25 and rapidly rocketed, Not very good with money ain't BWFC should see Worthy he's saved loads :mrgreen:

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Re: Would it have been better/cheaper to redevelop Burnden P

Post by Bruce Rioja » Mon Feb 13, 2017 1:11 pm

nelson66 wrote:reebok cost £25mil for a 28,000 seater stadium
stadium of light was built at the same time - cost £15mil to build a 48,000 seater stadium
Hang on, hang on. They built the SoL and then added to it.
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Re: Would it have been better/cheaper to redevelop Burnden P

Post by nelson66 » Mon Feb 13, 2017 1:15 pm

i just remember querying the cost to myself when the Macbok was being built - as i recall that dunderland built a stadium with a 50% more capaciity than ours for 2/3rds of the cost

tbh ..... its all irrelevant now as whats done is done
and we do have a great stadium

I nicked my £figures from wikipedia
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Re: Would it have been better/cheaper to redevelop Burnden P

Post by Worthy4England » Mon Feb 13, 2017 1:41 pm

£23m for SoL, according to this

http://www.sirbobmurray.com/45/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

On the capacity thing, we (BWFC) took the decision to provide a lot more leg room per seat than just about anywhere else - fairly sure it was at least 50% more than other places were using as standard....(I know this coz I sup with the bloke that worked on the architect team). There was a complication around evacuation routes for the corner sections iirc too.

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Re: Would it have been better/cheaper to redevelop Burnden P

Post by nelson66 » Mon Feb 13, 2017 2:02 pm

we might be deep in the doo....... but at least we have a great stadium (for the time being)
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Re: Would it have been better/cheaper to redevelop Burnden P

Post by dave the minion » Mon Feb 13, 2017 2:51 pm

nelson66 wrote:reebok cost £25mil for a 28,000 seater stadium
stadium of light was built at the same time - cost £15mil to build a 48,000 seater stadium

Apropos of nothing, of course, but new Wembley cost today's equivalent of £947m (Jesus Wept!) for an up-to 90,000 seat stadium.

Just saying, thats all..........
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Re: Would it have been better/cheaper to redevelop Burnden P

Post by Prufrock » Mon Feb 13, 2017 3:19 pm

I don't see what difference it would have made.

Bok is waaaaay better than most of the identikit modern out-of-town stadiums.
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Re: Would it have been better/cheaper to redevelop Burnden P

Post by bristol_Wanderer3 » Mon Feb 13, 2017 3:28 pm

Did we have to pay all the £25m-35m for the Reebok?

Generally the advantage of moving to a new out of town stadium linked with a retail park is that the big retail companies and land developers contribute to the cost of the stadium. I always thought this was a significant reason we moved??

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Re: Would it have been better/cheaper to redevelop Burnden P

Post by Worthy4England » Mon Feb 13, 2017 4:04 pm

A glance at the Bolton Wanderers Football and Athletic Company Limited seem to show "assets in construction" @ £19.9m for 1997 and a further £10m in relation to the 1998 additions. The totals cost was given at £30.1m (which I think included the hotel etc.

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Re: Would it have been better/cheaper to redevelop Burnden P

Post by TANGODANCER » Mon Feb 13, 2017 4:18 pm

Just an observation, but policing a town centre football stadium today ( given where we are currently) might well cause a massive amount of money and be beyond the police facilities. There are few town centre pubs left to cope with the demand for a pre-match/after match pint compared to when Burnden was alive and kicking. Supposing we had developed the old Manny Road stadium, could the town cope with traffic, parking and opposition needs?
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Re: Would it have been better/cheaper to redevelop Burnden P

Post by Rjs37 » Mon Feb 13, 2017 8:45 pm

officer_dibble wrote:Who would buy the football ground?
Wigan? They've already bought our training ground :D

But seriously Reebok is the better option by far. The town centre is terrible these days.

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Re: Would it have been better/cheaper to redevelop Burnden P

Post by boltonboris » Wed Feb 15, 2017 12:17 pm

Rjs37 wrote:
officer_dibble wrote:Who would buy the football ground?
Wigan? They've already bought our training ground :D

But seriously Reebok is the better option by far. The town centre is terrible these days.
Possibly part due to a lack of footfall of 20,000 or so people every other Saturday?

Or more likely - A massive lack of investment from the council
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Re: Would it have been better/cheaper to redevelop Burnden P

Post by TANGODANCER » Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:24 pm

boltonboris wrote:
Rjs37 wrote:
officer_dibble wrote:Who would buy the football ground?
Wigan? They've already bought our training ground :D

But seriously Reebok is the better option by far. The town centre is terrible these days.
Possibly part due to a lack of footfall of 20,000 or so people every other Saturday? Or more likely - A massive lack of investment from the council
Or both. Never mind. we;ll soon have an interchange, whatever it's all about. Who's going to come to Bolton except for a pastie, a moblie phone or new nails, a tatoo and a false tan.? Football, well, they can always bypass us and go to Horwich.. :wink:

Edit, gee I'm selling us short, we do a nice lin e in pawn shops and cashconverters...
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Re: Would it have been better/cheaper to redevelop Burnden P

Post by Hoboh » Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:01 am

TANGODANCER wrote:
boltonboris wrote:
Rjs37 wrote:
officer_dibble wrote:Who would buy the football ground?
Wigan? They've already bought our training ground :D

But seriously Reebok is the better option by far. The town centre is terrible these days.
Possibly part due to a lack of footfall of 20,000 or so people every other Saturday? Or more likely - A massive lack of investment from the council
Or both. Never mind. we;ll soon have an interchange, whatever it's all about. Who's going to come to Bolton except for a pastie, a moblie phone or new nails, a tatoo and a false tan.? Football, well, they can always bypass us and go to Horwich.. :wink:

Edit, gee I'm selling us short, we do a nice line in pawn shops and cashconverters...
And on the edge of town retail parks :wink:

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Re: Would it have been better/cheaper to redevelop Burnden P

Post by Aanvalluh » Sat Mar 11, 2017 11:51 am

TANGODANCER wrote:
Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:24 pm
boltonboris wrote:
Rjs37 wrote:
officer_dibble wrote:Who would buy the football ground?
Wigan? They've already bought our training ground :D

But seriously Reebok is the better option by far. The town centre is terrible these days.
Possibly part due to a lack of footfall of 20,000 or so people every other Saturday? Or more likely - A massive lack of investment from the council
Or both. Never mind. we;ll soon have an interchange, whatever it's all about. Who's going to come to Bolton except for a pastie, a moblie phone or new nails, a tatoo and a false tan.? Football, well, they can always bypass us and go to Horwich.. :wink:

Edit, gee I'm selling us short, we do a nice lin e in pawn shops and cashconverters...
...and a bet.

No idea what the Stadium of Light's like, but the £25m (or whatever) for the Reecron would have included the land for the massive car parks which have the potential to bring in the readies - after all it's costs about the cost of the car to park there.

Although I'm assuming (a) Bolton W own that land and (b) they get the income from it??

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