Ken Anderson - Old Owner (Definitely. For Ever ..... )

[BWFC_Insane]

Not worried about these themselves. The concern has to be that the deal between KA and DH has been unable to be completed. Still.

My suspicion is Blumarble are blocking it. I believe they have to approve change of share ownership. Iirc.

Someone with better knowledge of these things than myself might speculate as to why that might be. Ken playing hardball and refusing to repay Blumarble perhaps?

[Harry Genshaw]

I thought HMRC were the ones not to be trifled with and could close us down. Didn't they get very close last time but for some skillful legal work by our barrister?

[BWFC_Insane]

I thought HMRC were the ones not to be trifled with and could close us down. Didn't they get very close last time but for some skillful legal work by our barrister?

They aren't to be messed with. But I'm confident we could pay what ever is owed.

The issue really is resolving the ownership and sorting blumarble. Seems to be what Iles is saying too.

[Worthy4England]

Not worried about these themselves. The concern has to be that the deal between KA and DH has been unable to be completed. Still.

My suspicion is Blumarble are blocking it. I believe they have to approve change of share ownership. Iirc.

Someone with better knowledge of these things than myself might speculate as to why that might be. Ken playing hardball and refusing to repay Blumarble perhaps?

As long as you're not worried, I'll rest easy. I'm fairly sure we did this discussion before these further orders came out, just a couple of days back.
On what basis are you confident we can pay what we owe?

[BWFC_Insane]

Not worried about these themselves. The concern has to be that the deal between KA and DH has been unable to be completed. Still.

My suspicion is Blumarble are blocking it. I believe they have to approve change of share ownership. Iirc.

Someone with better knowledge of these things than myself might speculate as to why that might be. Ken playing hardball and refusing to repay Blumarble perhaps?

As long as you're not worried, I'll rest easy. I'm fairly sure we did this discussion before these further orders came out, just a couple of days back.
On what basis are you confident we can pay what we owe?

I listened to Iles do his facebook live thingy yesterday. Before these winding up orders were known about.

The big issue, is the blumarble one IMHO. As Iles says one of the very real possibilities after May 22nd court hearing (one of several) is that Blumarble own Deano's portion of the shares. Imagine that - 40% of the club owned by a finance company.

Iles has said several times that he believes Ken has investment ready to go, IF he can get a hold of DH's shares. Plus he will invest some of his own cash apparently at that point.

Given we are due TV money, due increased Championship earnings, ST sales etc, I'm confident (perhaps naively so) that even in the worst case we could borrow against that lot to pay the HMRC bills.

For me that is a bit of a sideshow. Blumarble is the major issue that seemingly is tough to resolve.

[Worthy4England]

The Deloitte's resignation said there was around £22m in costs that they couldn't see line of sight to us paying.

The Blumarble facility was £5m but we don't know if it's accruing default interest. But either way that's only going to be one component.

Of course time has moved on since the Deloitte's audit so we have no notion what's happened in the intervening period.

Given your normally cautious outlook, I'm surprised you're "all in" on this one being alright... It feels to me every bit as scarey as last year's if not more so.

[BWFC_Insane]

The Deloitte's resignation said there was around £22m in costs that they couldn't see line of sight to us paying.

The Blumarble facility was £5m but we don't know if it's accruing default interest. But either way that's only going to be one component.

Of course time has moved on since the Deloitte's audit so we have no notion what's happened in the intervening period.

Given your normally cautious outlook, I'm surprised you're "all in" on this one being alright... It feels to me every bit as scarey as last year's if not more so.

I'm not saying it'll be alright. I'm saying that no assurances can be given to any auditors until Ken owns the DH shares.

From that point on it is a question of trusting Ken (decide yourself). But until then, no sane person will invest with the looming prospect of a glorified loan shark owning nearly half the business by the end of this month.

Investment and salvation (again comes down to trust of Ken Anderson) depends on Ken striking this deal and preventing Blumarble from getting hold of the sports shield bwfc shares.

As it stands, that deal has not been done, and there are precious few signs it has, so it is worrying, very worrying. But remember when Deloitte signed of the accounts Ken and Dean were in open dispute. They couldn't even agree what % of the shares each owned.

I just think the Blumarble/shares ownership is the key to all of this. And the fact it hasn't been sorted and potentially we are a couple of weeks off being partially owned by Blumarble is the part that is concerning. IF that is resolved then it is over to Ken to sort the rest.

[Hoboh]

Maybe Blumarble would like to get their hands on the club?

The 'Blumarble stadium' anyone?

The 'problem' as I see it is Ken has not got enough financial clout to see the buggers off.

[BWFC_Insane]

Maybe Blumarble would like to get their hands on the club?

The 'Blumarble stadium' anyone?

The 'problem' as I see it is Ken has not got enough financial clout to see the buggers off.

Would you pay 6/7M to pay off someone else's loan?

[Hoboh]

Maybe Blumarble would like to get their hands on the club?

The 'Blumarble stadium' anyone?

The 'problem' as I see it is Ken has not got enough financial clout to see the buggers off.

Would you pay 6/7M to pay off someone else's loan?

Depends if I wanted a club or not, tbh I think I'd be seeing Holdsworth across a court room if he had not been honest and disclosed full facts in relation to the club but Blumarble would still need sorting first.

[Worthy4England]

The Dean/Ken thing is incidental in terms of "ownership" although it showed there was a mess - from an Accounting perspective they're just trying to ascertain what you've earned, what you've spent, what you're due to spend and whether you're likely to meet those commitments.

However we dress it up - they said £22m for the coming financial year - which we're actually nearly through - they couldn't see line of sight for.

Let's hypothesize that Ken/Blumarble/Deano all have a love in - £5m (£4m received into the Club and £1m to Sports Shield for "expenses") + accrued interest (figure stated in the Account) of "due debt" goes away - sorta, it's either paid off, written off or refinanced with Blumarble or refinanced with someone else.

£5.5m was due to Prescott Business Parks (this is now either past due or has been paid or renegotiated) - in fairness we seem to have some sort of relationship with them this was under negotiation in January.

£2m to Fildraw/Warby is out in 2018.

On top of that, they (our Directors) were predicting we'd make a loss of £11m for the season just ended - which is where the £22m is coming from...

If we have made a loss of £11m, what's paying for it?

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Wanderers release a statement:

C_iSIFfXoAEb7r5.jpg (35.84 KiB) Viewed 2106 times

(SCC is Special Catering Company, ie the piemen)

EDIT statement's now live on bwfc.co.uk

[Worthy4England]

Maybe Blumarble would like to get their hands on the club?

The 'Blumarble stadium' anyone?

The 'problem' as I see it is Ken has not got enough financial clout to see the buggers off.

Would you pay 6/7M to pay off someone else's loan?

£4m was stated in the Accounts as "coming into the Club"...£1m was "expenses"

If we take that at face value for a moment (as it was in the Accounts that Ken signed) - the only real question is whether it was a loan or a "gift"

[palindromeofbolton]

Wanderers release a statement:

C_iSIFfXoAEb7r5.jpg

(SCC is Special Catering Company, ie the piemen)

I don't think the Eastenders omnibus is going to get a look in for a few weeks with this little lot unfolding.

Not sure how much to be "reassured" by this statement, and how much it's just playing with semantics. The club and Burden Leisure may not have been issued with any petitions, but what about Sports Shield BWFC (or Inner Circle, if ownership of SSBWFC has legally passed to them)?

I suppose I'm saying: what about Blumarble and this 22 May date then?

[BWFC_Insane]

The Dean/Ken thing is incidental in terms of "ownership" although it showed there was a mess - from an Accounting perspective they're just trying to ascertain what you've earned, what you've spent, what you're due to spend and whether you're likely to meet those commitments.

However we dress it up - they said £22m for the coming financial year - which we're actually nearly through - they couldn't see line of sight for.

Let's hypothesize that Ken/Blumarble/Deano all have a love in - £5m (£4m received into the Club and £1m to Sports Shield for "expenses") + accrued interest (figure stated in the Account) of "due debt" goes away - sorta, it's either paid off, written off or refinanced with Blumarble or refinanced with someone else.

£5.5m was due to Prescott Business Parks (this is now either past due or has been paid or renegotiated) - in fairness we seem to have some sort of relationship with them this was under negotiation in January.

£2m to Fildraw/Warby is out in 2018.

On top of that, they (our Directors) were predicting we'd make a loss of £11m for the season just ended - which is where the £22m is coming from...

If we have made a loss of £11m, what's paying for it?

Investors. As I said if you go back a long way Ken said his plan was to bring investors in (debt based and equity based) once he had control. I was told a while ago, by someone fairly reliable that there is Chinese investment lined up ready to go. Think Iles hinted on his facebook live a few times recently along those lines too!

Nobody is investing in a club that might be part owned by loan sharks. It seems Ken isn't either, but I suspect the game he's playing is trying to get BM out the picture for as little as possible. He may fancy a court agreeing with him rather than settling pre-court. Very risky for the club like, but then easy to say when I'd not have to find the £6M!

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

I'm no financial expert, but I can picture a world in which Ken has investment lined up but needs to keep it quiet, play the poverty card to try to beat Blumarble down. Tell them we've got Bill Gates on the phone asking where to send his cheque and suddenly we're liable for much more usurious terms.

[BWFC_Insane]

Maybe Blumarble would like to get their hands on the club?

The 'Blumarble stadium' anyone?

The 'problem' as I see it is Ken has not got enough financial clout to see the buggers off.

Would you pay 6/7M to pay off someone else's loan?

Depends if I wanted a club or not, tbh I think I'd be seeing Holdsworth across a court room if he had not been honest and disclosed full facts in relation to the club but Blumarble would still need sorting first.

Being real a minute, Ken may well end up having to pay them off if he wants the shares. I'm sure he's taking legal advice. But I'm also guessing he may see another way, which could be hoping the 22nd hearing is not conclusive, the matter drags on and he can agree a deal (e.g. restructured payments, later payments etc) that suits him better.

I'm not being funny but we all know he's not in this as a lifelong fan. So he's going to want to make money out of it.

[LeverEnd]

He's said the club owes them, so accepted liability for the debt. I think he's playing poker on how much he has to give them to make them bugger off.
The loan will be on ridiculously high interest terms and they'll want to screw him for every penny, especially since promotion.
I'm.guessing he's disputing those terms (which he didn't agree to) as unfair and hoping a court agrees with him.
Unfortunately everything else will be on hold until these Blumarble cnuts are sorted.
Ken's background is dubious to say the least but I'll back him.over predatory loan sharks like these any day. Increasingly makes Deano look clueless, but that may be unfair as I don't know all the details.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

I think he's playing poker on how much he has to give them to make them bugger off.
The loan will be on ridiculously high interest terms

I agree, and in actuarial terms there's a balance there. If the savings made by hard-balling are smaller than the interest accruing at Wonga levels, then we're only punishing our own bottom line.

[BWFC_Insane]

He's said the club owes them, so accepted liability for the debt. I think he's playing poker on how much he has to give them to make them bugger off.
The loan will be on ridiculously high interest terms and they'll want to screw him for every penny, especially since promotion.
I'm.guessing he's disputing those terms (which he didn't agree to) as unfair and hoping a court agrees with him.
Unfortunately everything else will be on hold until these Blumarble cnuts are sorted.
Ken's background is dubious to say the least but I'll back him.over predatory loan sharks like these any day. Increasingly makes Deano look clueless, but that may be unfair as I don't know all the details.

Just to be clear, Blumarble are taking sports shield BWFC to court. Ken won't be there (other than in the visitors seats). As he doesn't own sports shield BWFC yet.