creeeeeeeekeeeeeet

[Worthy4England]

The cynic in me thinks that SA are already trying to pad this one out.

Something that just made me grin was Stokes being described as 'medium pace'. He'd deffo have me running away

Isn't that usually when the bowler heads round the wicket to cut out the escape route?

[Bruce Rioja]

The cynic in me thinks that SA are already trying to pad this one out.

Something that just made me grin was Stokes being described as 'medium pace'. He'd deffo have me running away

Isn't that usually when the bowler heads round the wicket to cut out the escape route?

Bowlers / Goalkeepers. 4ucking mental, mate

[Bruce Rioja]

We need a wicket, btw.

[Worthy4England]

The cynic in me thinks that SA are already trying to pad this one out.

Something that just made me grin was Stokes being described as 'medium pace'. He'd deffo have me running away

Isn't that usually when the bowler heads round the wicket to cut out the escape route?

Bowlers / Goalkeepers. 4ucking mental, mate

I'd refute mental - they're generally quite calculating (bowlers)

Outside of out and out short pitched stuff, the ideal for bunnies, is hitting that gap between the top of the pad and the bottom of the thigh pad. Umpire can't call you for scaring the bunny. That limits mobility so the Yorker to the boot is coming next to try and cause further lack of mobility. Once the rabbit's been immobilized, then you can come round the wicket at 'em. Their natural inclination (to step away to leg) is then no longer a viable plan.

[Bruce Rioja]

Moeen Ali is such a wonderful cricketer, yet never seems to get mentioned with the greats. It puzzles me.

[Worthy4England]

Moeen Ali is such a wonderful cricketer, yet never seems to get mentioned with the greats. It puzzles me.

His bowling lets him down a bit - especially if you have only one spinner slot. He averages 35 with the bat and 42 with the ball. If you compare to a Botham (33 with bat and 28 with ball) or Flintoff (31 with the bat and 32 with the ball), he's there with the batting, but a way off bowling.

He's certainly better than he's often given credit for, though.

[Bruce Rioja]

Stunning catch by Stokes, and the vital wicket of de Kock. Our fielding positions have been top notch.

[Bruce Rioja]

Moeen Ali is such a wonderful cricketer, yet never seems to get mentioned with the greats. It puzzles me.

His bowling lets him down a bit - especially if you have only one spinner slot. He averages 35 with the bat and 42 with the ball. If you compare to a Botham (33 with bat and 28 with ball) or Flintoff (31 with the bat and 32 with the ball), he's there with the batting, but a way off bowling.

He's certainly better than he's often given credit for, though.

See, this statistic of 'took however many wickets', against who and where in the batting line up? All well and good seeing off the tail against someone crap. It's like Rooney claiming to be England's leading goalscorer. Bobby Charlton (a midfielder lest we forget) didn't get to score penalties against San Marino.

[Bruce Rioja]

And here's a thing - If Alastair Cook turns round to Root and says "I think we should do this", what happens?

[Worthy4England]

Moeen Ali is such a wonderful cricketer, yet never seems to get mentioned with the greats. It puzzles me.

His bowling lets him down a bit - especially if you have only one spinner slot. He averages 35 with the bat and 42 with the ball. If you compare to a Botham (33 with bat and 28 with ball) or Flintoff (31 with the bat and 32 with the ball), he's there with the batting, but a way off bowling.

He's certainly better than he's often given credit for, though.

See, this statistic of 'took however many wickets', against who and where in the batting line up? All well and good seeing off the tail against someone crap. It's like Rooney claiming to be England's leading goalscorer. Bobby Charlton (a midfielder lest we forget) didn't get to score penalties against San Marino.

Yeah but, no but. An average, over time is an average against all batting whether you've come on early to pin the openers down or late to try and polish off the tail. The reality is they get an average of 420 against Moeen and 280 against Beefy. They also score a run an over faster against Ali than both Beefy and Freddie. So not only do they get more, they get them quicker leaving them more time to bowl you out.

I'm not being critical of him particularly - I think he's a very good cricketer - but you asked why he wasn't mentioned with the greats, and I reckon it's because his bowling ain't good enough.

[TANGODANCER]

119-1 at close and that means 216 ahead. Steady as she goes looking the maxim. Keep it up lads.

[Prufrock]

Moeen Ali is such a wonderful cricketer, yet never seems to get mentioned with the greats. It puzzles me.

His bowling lets him down a bit - especially if you have only one spinner slot. He averages 35 with the bat and 42 with the ball. If you compare to a Botham (33 with bat and 28 with ball) or Flintoff (31 with the bat and 32 with the ball), he's there with the batting, but a way off bowling.

He's certainly better than he's often given credit for, though.

See, this statistic of 'took however many wickets', against who and where in the batting line up? All well and good seeing off the tail against someone crap. It's like Rooney claiming to be England's leading goalscorer. Bobby Charlton (a midfielder lest we forget) didn't get to score penalties against San Marino.

Yeah but, no but. An average, over time is an average against all batting whether you've come on early to pin the openers down or late to try and polish off the tail. The reality is they get an average of 420 against Moeen and 280 against Beefy. They also score a run an over faster against Ali than both Beefy and Freddie. So not only do they get more, they get them quicker leaving them more time to bowl you out.

I'm not being critical of him particularly - I think he's a very good cricketer - but you asked why he wasn't mentioned with the greats, and I reckon it's because his bowling ain't good enough.

If he was playing in a better team would he have to bowl? Got in for his spinning but worth it without?

Anyway, got to be winning from here. Solid first session to keep the scoreboard going, then let the middle order have their fun then chuck em inn just before tea.

[BWFC_Insane]

Moeen Ali is such a wonderful cricketer, yet never seems to get mentioned with the greats. It puzzles me.

His bowling lets him down a bit - especially if you have only one spinner slot. He averages 35 with the bat and 42 with the ball. If you compare to a Botham (33 with bat and 28 with ball) or Flintoff (31 with the bat and 32 with the ball), he's there with the batting, but a way off bowling.

He's certainly better than he's often given credit for, though.

See, this statistic of 'took however many wickets', against who and where in the batting line up? All well and good seeing off the tail against someone crap. It's like Rooney claiming to be England's leading goalscorer. Bobby Charlton (a midfielder lest we forget) didn't get to score penalties against San Marino.

Yeah but, no but. An average, over time is an average against all batting whether you've come on early to pin the openers down or late to try and polish off the tail. The reality is they get an average of 420 against Moeen and 280 against Beefy. They also score a run an over faster against Ali than both Beefy and Freddie. So not only do they get more, they get them quicker leaving them more time to bowl you out.

I'm not being critical of him particularly - I think he's a very good cricketer - but you asked why he wasn't mentioned with the greats, and I reckon it's because his bowling ain't good enough.

Broadly I agree worthy. Ali is a spinner who can take wickets on a turning pitch in the right conditions. But he's not exactly setting the world alight otherwise. He's a limited bowler. However, what I would say is comparing stats of a spinner in the modern game to Botham is probably a bit unfair. All but the very best one or two in the world get knocked around the park every now and again.

[Bruce Rioja]

Hmmm - not quite as confident now. 145 / 5. The lead's still around 250, but the wicket's dying.

[Worthy4England]

Atishoo, atishoo we all fall down.

[Bruce Rioja]

Atishoo, atishoo we all fall down.

Incredible isn't it?! There was talk of the declaration this morning

[TANGODANCER]

The plan didn't go according to....then. Interesting is the buzz word now....

[Bruce Rioja]

The plan didn't go according to....then. Interesting is the buzz word now....

Indeed. I honestly can't decide who's in the better position.

[Worthy4England]

Well runs on the board means they have to get 'em... Over 300 won't be a stroll... (or shouldn't be)

Time for Moeen to spin them out in the fourth innings.

[Worthy4England]

There's only around 30 occasions in circa 2000 tests that >300 has been successfully chased...