Ken Anderson - Old Owner (Definitely. For Ever ..... )

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

EFL say they will review SSBWFC liquidation in September - haven't ruled out sanctions (e.g. points deduction).

We're going to be deducted points. Clear as day.

Well, we can only wait and see, but I remain considerably more optimistic than you on this one.

I mean this has been going on months, the EFL have been consulted, and KA is now saying that the winding up of SSBWFC is welcome news. It would be pretty poor from KA if that "welcome" news results in a points deduction. I would still like to see it explicitly said that a points deduction will not be happening however...

I don't understand the logic behind a points reduction for this. What would it punish that the club did, and what would it deter in future behavior of other clubs?

EFL/FA and logic don't go hand in hand. My bet is they think an example is needed to show they're being tough on 'rogue clubs/owners'.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

And bang on cue..........

https://www.bwfc.co.uk/news/2017/august ... chairman4/

He says "wherefore" when he means "wherewithal", and "pariahs" when he means "parasites".

I could make a link about people having a station above their ideas but, y'know, I'm busy on holiday.

Good luck to my club.

[BWFC_Insane]

Updated story by Iles. Holdsworth and Anderson at each other's throats again. Total and utter mess. Sounds like both have been obstacles in any sort of deal getting done. Cheers fellas.

http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/wa ... iquidated/

[nelson66]

Looks like Ken has hard balled Dean and will be buying shares this week for less than they were worth last week

Dean hasn't lost owt apart from a quid

Ken has gained an asset worth 10s of millions on the cheap

Who pays for this - we do - the fans

[bristol_Wanderer3]

Updated story by Iles. Holdsworth and Anderson at each other's throats again. Total and utter mess. Sounds like both have been obstacles in any sort of deal getting done. Cheers fellas.

http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/wa ... iquidated/

There is some pretty significant news in there. That there is a potential buyer of the club that is based in Bolton is surprising to me.

Sadly that article does make the possibility of a points deduction sound possible

[officer_dibble]

I can't see there being a local buyer. Just can't see it. It's a right fcking mess isn't it.

Iles better be right on tbis one or he should expect a call from Andersons lawyers! Paints him as a right villian.

[TonyDomingos]

And bang on cue..........

https://www.bwfc.co.uk/news/2017/august ... chairman4/

He says "wherefore" when he means "wherewithal", and "pariahs" when he means "parasites".

I could make a link about people having a station above their ideas but, y'know, I'm busy on holiday.

Good luck to my club.

"That is not to say that we are out of the woods, but we can say that we do see light at the end of the tunnel".

I could weep.

[LeverEnd]

I can't see there being a local buyer. Just can't see it. It's a right fcking mess isn't it.

Iles better be right on tbis one or he should expect a call from Andersons lawyers! Paints him as a right villian.

But he writes to the fans every week! He's all about transparency so can't be a villain!

From the updated BN story

The ‘third party’ has also been in contact with The Bolton News to give their version of events. Speaking via a spokesperson, it is claimed Mr Anderson asked for a non-refundable £500,000 to allow access to the club’s books and a total £5m by Monday morning.

"That offer was put to him on Friday and firmed up on Saturday,” the spokesperson continued.

“He then wanted £1m for staying in the Championship during the 2017/18 season and a further £4m if the club reached the Premier League in the next three seasons. This is for a business in which he owned 57.5 per cent of the shares, the whole 95 per cent having only been purchased for £1 in March last year.”

A second party also expressed a wish to buy the club and was introduced to Anderson via the same channels. They were unable to proceed with payment immediately but agreed to explore the possibility of a joint venture with the other potential purchaser.

The consortium claim a 72-hour delay was requested at the weekend to enable solicitors to move funds, which would have in turn prompted BluMarble to remove their winding-up petition, but that the offer was rejected by Mr Anderson.

Interested to see his response to that. Reads like he was offered the chance to give the club a stable future at a very tidy profit to himself and chose to jeopardise the club to wring extra cash. Now that's only one side of things of course. Let's see what his response is.

[bristol_Wanderer3]

So if KA wants £5m for his 57.5% stake, and it costs £7m (Blumarble debt including interest to date) to get DH's 37.5% from the liquidator (one assumes that could be neogtiated down), then 95% of the club is worth £12m tops, £13m if we stay up. This values the club at around £12.6m (£13.6m). With the club running at close to break even, Blumarble paid only around £10m of short term debt (PBP loan, and overdraft being the main items according to the last accounts), and some further long term debt payable to ED, this seems to be a fantastic deal when compared to other clubs.

Southampton, and West Brom have recently been sold for sums reported to be £150m - £200m. Notts Forest are reported to have had an offer of £50m refused for the club before accepting an offer from the current Greek owner. One assumes those clubs were relatively debt free, but still in comparison we look a very attractive proposition imho.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

A fantastic profit for KA you mean. It's cost him 50p plus a few very short term loans that were repaid. Of course, he might have put some money in for that we don't know about yet, but I don't think anywhere near approaching those figures. We also don't know what money might be being paid to himself, Lee and the missus yet. I remain very cynical...

[BWFC_Insane]

So if KA wants £5m for his 57.5% stake, and it costs £7m (Blumarble debt including interest to date) to get DH's 37.5% from the liquidator (one assumes that could be neogtiated down), then 95% of the club is worth £12m tops, £13m if we stay up. This values the club at around £12.6m (£13.6m). With the club running at close to break even, Blumarble paid only around £10m of short term debt (PBP loan, and overdraft being the main items according to the last accounts), and some further long term debt payable to ED, this seems to be a fantastic deal when compared to other clubs.

Southampton, and West Brom have recently been sold for sums reported to be £150m - £200m. Notts Forest are reported to have had an offer of £50m refused for the club before accepting an offer from the current Greek owner. One assumes those clubs were relatively debt free, but still in comparison we look a very attractive proposition imho.

I didn't read it as Ken wanting £5M for his 57.5% stake. I read it as Ken wanting money to let a potential investor (buyer of Holdsworths 37.5%) view the accounts and then a £5M cash injection into the business.

Ken's 57.5% wasn't up for grabs in the court process, it was the SSBWFC 37.5% that was being discussed.

Ken may well be prepared to sell his, but my reading of it was someone wanted to buy the 37.5% and to do so Ken asked for a fee to read the accounts and a guarantee of cash injection into the business. I suspect the demands were somewhat lower than is stated, and possibly more proof of future funding. Both sides are trying to make the other look the villain.

[LeverEnd]

If the £500k a look story is true it's outrageous. Those accounts have been an absolute mess for years, and Transparent Ken has kept them well under wraps from everyone including legal bodies.
Who would risk chucking half a million away like that?

[bristol_Wanderer3]

So if KA wants £5m for his 57.5% stake, and it costs £7m (Blumarble debt including interest to date) to get DH's 37.5% from the liquidator (one assumes that could be neogtiated down), then 95% of the club is worth £12m tops, £13m if we stay up. This values the club at around £12.6m (£13.6m). With the club running at close to break even, Blumarble paid only around £10m of short term debt (PBP loan, and overdraft being the main items according to the last accounts), and some further long term debt payable to ED, this seems to be a fantastic deal when compared to other clubs.

Southampton, and West Brom have recently been sold for sums reported to be £150m - £200m. Notts Forest are reported to have had an offer of £50m refused for the club before accepting an offer from the current Greek owner. One assumes those clubs were relatively debt free, but still in comparison we look a very attractive proposition imho.

I didn't read it as Ken wanting £5M for his 57.5% stake. I read it as Ken wanting money to let a potential investor (buyer of Holdsworths 37.5%) view the accounts and then a £5M cash injection into the business.

Ken's 57.5% wasn't up for grabs in the court process, it was the SSBWFC 37.5% that was being discussed.

Ken may well be prepared to sell his, but my reading of it was someone wanted to buy the 37.5% and to do so Ken asked for a fee to read the accounts and a guarantee of cash injection into the business. I suspect the demands were somewhat lower than is stated, and possibly more proof of future funding. Both sides are trying to make the other look the villain.

You may be right but the BEN article does say "A second party also expressed a wish to buy the club". Surely It would say something like "the 37.5% of the club that was available" or similar if it was just referring to SSBWFC's chunk?? We will find out soon enough because the spokesman representing one of the potential buyers states that they will be back to negotiate in the next 48hrs.

[TANGODANCER]

Admittedly being ignorant of the wheelings and dealings of high finance (and also admitting I'm only here about Bolton Wanderers football team), I'm grateful for the explanations and view of those who do know the score. I just wonder how much of all this is actually about the club, and how much about personal grabology? Holdworth was at least an ex footballer with limited means, who seemed to want, via a huge mortgage to buy the club as such, ie a football club. Ken Holdsworth, an entrepeneur business man did have his own funds but is playing monopoly based around business plans, expansion and investment that involves banks and investors in business and promoting his own ends. Accepting that football can't exist without finance and we've already had one massive fortune owed to Eddie Davies written off ( would there even still be a Bolton Wanderers but for him?), and that we are still in debt, under an embargo, suffering from injury problems in the skeleton staff we still have and going to court more times than a compulsive shop-lifter, the fact remains that a succession of bad management somewhere has turned a once solid good club into football's poor relation. All this in conjunction with the fact that the club itself is six miles away from the town, ( a town that doesn't appear to know its next move apart from knocking things down) and still claiming to be a "big club" when the fact is, we aren't a big club at all and unless a miracle happens we'll soon be another housing estate or car park for the next Normid. I really have to hope that somewhere amongst it all somebody actually knows what they're doing. My fingers are permanently crossed.

[Peter Thompson]

If the £500k a look story is true it's outrageous. Those accounts have been an absolute mess for years, and Transparent Ken has kept them well under wraps from everyone including legal bodies.
Who would risk chucking half a million away like that?

I've been one of KA's biggest supporters since he got involved with the club, but I have to agree in regards to this 'so called' £1/2M just to look at the books - if its true (and it may not be) then he's out of order and just putting obstacles in front of any prospective/interested parties just for the sake of it, asking for proof of funding and a level of investment from day one is one thing but asking for this amount just to look at the books is wrong, and if we get a points deduction or other sanctions because of his 'greed' then he'll get serious stick from the fans.

He's helped out with the cash flow loans to keep us going, which is great and commendable - but its not like he has stated that once Holdsworth's out of the picture he's got a £5M war chest for PP to use, so he's being a bit hypercritical IMO.

Unless he (KA) does something quickly and buys the remaining shares or brings in his own business partner / investment, then I seriously believe that he could lose face with many fans and this will happen quicker than people think - they will turn on him....if we get a points deduction then he'll get dogs abuse from the fans - unless he can prove that what Iles wrote yesterday is wrong.

[BWFC_Insane]

If the £500k a look story is true it's outrageous. Those accounts have been an absolute mess for years, and Transparent Ken has kept them well under wraps from everyone including legal bodies.
Who would risk chucking half a million away like that?

I've been one of KA's biggest supporters since he got involved with the club, but I have to agree in regards to this 'so called' £1/2M just to look at the books - if its true (and it may not be) then he's out of order and just putting obstacles in front of any prospective/interested parties just for the sake of it, asking for proof of funding and a level of investment from day one is one thing but asking for this amount just to look at the books is wrong, and if we get a points deduction or other sanctions because of his 'greed' then he'll get serious stick from the fans.

He's helped out with the cash flow loans to keep us going, which is great and commendable - but its not like he has stated that once Holdsworth's out of the picture he's got a £5M war chest for PP to use, so he's being a bit hypercritical IMO.

Unless he (KA) does something quickly and buys the remaining shares or brings in his own business partner / investment, then I seriously believe that he could lose face with many fans and this will happen quicker than people think - they will turn on him....if we get a points deduction then he'll get dogs abuse from the fans - unless he can prove that what Iles wrote yesterday is wrong.

As I've been saying for a long time, the fight between Deano and Ken is bad for the club. Neither are putting the club first here. A club first outlook would have been Dean backing down and allowing Ken to buy the shares and deal with the loan. And Ken paying fair money for it. Seems neither were prepared to do that, and thus, have both been willing to gamble the club's future. Ken presumably to cut a cheap deal, Deano to spite Ken.

As fans it is impossible to know which side has the club at heart more, what is clear is that Ken is more capable of running it on some sort of basis. I fear the league will look for every opportunity to punish us, and a points deduction for SSBWFC's liquidation has always been possible. With the league refusing to rule that out yesterday (despite having had two weeks to study that possibility) it does make me fear the worst. And that deduction would end our season.

[dave the minion]

it would end our season, but in doing that so early in the season, would it also not make us cannon fodder for most teams and therefore be unfair on the league as a whole - I could see anyone we played before the points deduction complaining (not that we have taken many points of anyone!!!)?

[Lost Leopard Spot]

I've been reading up on this to try and make sense of what's going on. From what I can see the following has occurred:
Sports Shield got Eddie's (95%) shares for a £1 on the basis that Deano could prove that he could run the club for a year. [I don't know who the other 5% shares are/were owned by].
Sport Shield apparently got into difficulties keeping the club running and drafted in Ken Anderson and Inner Circle for 50% of the 95% shares. Later on, because sports Shield wasn't contributing to the upkeeep of the club, Inner Circle obtained more shares from Sport Shield, making the split 37.5-57.5 in favour of Inner Circle and Ken Anderson.
Subsequent to that Sport Shield took out a loan of £5million from a loan co called Blu Marble with 24% interest repayments, therefore owing at present something like £7mill as a short term loan [ my diggings haven't revealed what this dosh was used for - although one article seemed to be stating that Deano trousered one million and the other four million went towards club upkeep]. This loan was apparently taken out by Sport Shield with no reference to Inner Circle or any board meeting and the loan solely negotiated by Deano, who however seems somehow to have arranged it with club collateral.
Sport Shield defaulted on the repayment and Blu Marble demanded their money back. Sport Shield has been wound up as a result.
Andrew Hosking has been appointed as the liquidator holding the 37.5% share for insolvency firm Quantuma. Quantuma by law must raise as much money as possible and Blu Marble will be getting the proceeds of any sale of the shares. BluMarble could also demand assets from Bolton Wanderers in the form of land, ground, player sales, or equipment (including computers and kitchen sinks) to make up any shortfall that the sale of 37,5 of BW shares don't raise towards ~£7mill.
Ken Anderson is lumbered with whoever (if anybody) wants to buy the shares as co-owners. However if the ground and/or players are sold nobody would be particularly keen to invest money into shares of a potentially groundless/playerless club, therefore devaluing the potential sale value of the shares and hastening the likelihood of the ground/players actually being sold to satisfy the finance company (Blu Marble's) investment.

Have I got all this right? What a fxcking mess?

[BWFC_Insane]

Broadly LLS, broadly. But a few details not quite right (as far as I understand - which is not much).

Sports shield agreed a deal with Eddie and initially Deano had another "silent partner" involved. However, that partner pulled out at the last minute so Ken, who had been advising Dean Holdsworth on the deal stepped in to acquire half of the available shares (5% are fan owned) for his company inner circle investments. It was clear that originally Holdsworth expected to be figurehead of the club and chairman (he'd already stated he'd be chairman) however, after Ken stepped in, he announced himself as chairman and Dean H was relegated to the background. It then became apparent the two had fallen out, big time. It should be noted that as far as we know Ken hasn't paid anything for half the club, as he made a promise of funding to keep the club running - but the BM loan was used initially then Ken provided short term loans as detailed below. I think this is one of the issues between the two men.

Soon Ken claimed to have acquired extra shares in the club, something Holdsworth at the time disputed - this was noted as a dispute in the 2015 accounts. Further issues appeared too. Holdsworth claimed he'd kept his part of the deal and Anderson was not permanently investing anything. Whereas Anderson claims Holdsworth had taken a million pounds out for himself, and that he (Ken) was the only person providing temporary funding for the club as Holdsworth was refusing.

In essence Ken has loaned the club money on a short term basis but gets in back, sans interest. He's not taking a salary, or so he claims. Deano acquired a loan with no risk to himself. But did use most of that loan to keep the club running. Clearly Ken has forced Deano out.

The BM loan is secured against club assets, but I believe their claim on those assets begins next March if it isn't repaid yet. That is why they took SSBWFC to court as they defaulted on repayments in March of this year when due. The club assets come into question if loan isn't repaid in full by March or an alternative agreement reached.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Broadly LLS, broadly. But a few details not quite right (as far as I understand - which is not much).

Sports shield agreed a deal with Eddie and initially Deano had another "silent partner" involved. However, that partner pulled out at the last minute so Ken, who had been advising Dean Holdsworth on the deal stepped in to acquire half of the available shares (5% are fan owned) for his company inner circle investments. It was clear that originally Holdsworth expected to be figurehead of the club and chairman (he'd already stated he'd be chairman) however, after Ken stepped in, he announced himself as chairman and Dean H was relegated to the background. It then became apparent the two had fallen out, big time. It should be noted that as far as we know Ken hasn't paid anything for half the club, as he made a promise of funding to keep the club running - but the BM loan was used initially then Ken provided short term loans as detailed below. I think this is one of the issues between the two men.

Soon Ken claimed to have acquired extra shares in the club, something Holdsworth at the time disputed - this was noted as a dispute in the 2015 accounts. Further issues appeared too. Holdsworth claimed he'd kept his part of the deal and Anderson was not permanently investing anything. Whereas Anderson claims Holdsworth had taken a million pounds out for himself, and that he (Ken) was the only person providing temporary funding for the club as Holdsworth was refusing.

In essence Ken has loaned the club money on a short term basis but gets in back, sans interest. He's not taking a salary, or so he claims. Deano acquired a loan with no risk to himself. But did use most of that loan to keep the club running. Clearly Ken has forced Deano out.

The BM loan is secured against club assets, but I believe their claim on those assets begins next March if it isn't repaid yet. That is why they took SSBWFC to court as they defaulted on repayments in March of this year when due. The club assets come into question if loan isn't repaid in full by March or an alternative agreement reached.

Thanks, that's filled in a lot of gaps I had.