We are (hopefully) staying up: the opposition

[TANGODANCER]

A couple of notes from the King of the Specsavers rose-tinted optical aids department... You may disagree as you will, and as ever I don't expect solid answers because I doubt there are any, but.........

You don't need to be a season ticket holder or to have watched every game since Nicky Hunt leathered the ball hopefully forth to face a few home truths. Let's put the rose-tinters away for this season and accept a few facts. As a football club we're now very small potatoes outside the parish boundaries of Breightmet, Kearsley, Howfen and Astley Bridge in the year of Our Lord 2018. Nobody fears us in the slightest, thanks mainly not just to football, but to several years of financial mishandling, poor management, greedy agents and players who thought they were better than they actually were (backed up by the lack of world-beating deeds of derring do from anyone bar a half-dozen who once wore the White shirt and have since faded away like supermarket flowers once they left the store, or have had careers ended by injury) Marvin Sordell scoring is achievement? Gary Madine not scoring is news? We have no choice but to hope and (maybe even pray if you think we matter in the grand scheme of it all) that fortune and a couple of decent refs see us over the great escape barbed wire at least for now. Due mainly to the rose by any other name still being a rose, football is all about money; not sport, not skill, not loyalty not pride, but plenty brass in the bank and that's the biggest "No shxt Sherlock" since discovering he wasn't real.

Okay, if you accept this as fact, unless a Russian oligarcch, an American candy magnate or the Aga Khan of the millenium era come along desperate to put money somewhere other than the bank, what happens next? . Ken has started digging a small tunnel based on some ecomomic wrangling, a starvation diet of Jags and Bentley and a firm belief in his own methods, but should Parky be tempted away if the miracle happens, where do we go from here? As a business we're about as successful as a salesman selling Bibles in Mecca and but for our youth endeavours we have less to be "Oh Be Joyful about today since Duttons were taken over by Whitbred. Where does the reality really lie?

Come on you Whites.....Quo Vadis?

[BWFC_Insane]

A couple of notes from the King of the Specsavers rose-tinted optical aids department... You may disagree as you will, and as ever I don't expect solid answers because I doubt there are any, but.........

You don't need to be a season ticket holder or to have watched every game since Nicky Hunt leathered the ball hopefully forth to face a few home truths. Let's put the rose-tinters away for this season and accept a few facts. As a football club we're now very small potatoes outside the parish boundaries of Breightmet, Kearsley, Howfen and Astley Bridge in the year of Our Lord 2018. Nobody fears us in the slightest, thanks mainly not just to football, but to several years of financial mishandling, poor management, greedy agents and players who thought they were better than they actually were (backed up by the lack of world-beating deeds of derring do from anyone bar a half-dozen who once wore the White shirt and have since faded away like supermarket flowers once they left the store, or have had careers ended by injury) Marvin Sordell scoring is achievement? Gary Madine not scoring is news? We have no choice but to hope and (maybe even pray if you think we matter in the grand scheme of it all) that fortune and a couple of decent refs see us over the great escape barbed wire at least for now. Due mainly to the rose by any other name still being a rose, football is all about money; not sport, not skill, not loyalty not pride, but plenty brass in the bank and that's the biggest "No shxt Sherlock" since discovering he wasn't real.

Okay, if you accept this as fact, unless a Russian oligarcch, an American candy magnate or the Aga Khan of the millenium era come along desperate to put money somewhere other than the bank, what happens next? . Ken has started digging a small tunnel based on some ecomomic wrangling, a starvation diet of Jags and Bentley and a firm belief in his own methods, but should Parky be tempted away if the miracle happens, where do we go from here? As a business we're about as successful as a salesman selling Bibles in Mecca and but for our youth endeavours we have less to be "Oh Be Joyful about today since Duttons were taken over by Whitbred. Where does the reality really lie?

Come on you Whites.....Quo Vadis?

Indeed TD. One of the best posts on here in recent times.

We are hoping that someone with some money takes us over or offers investment because without that the future is at best more of the same. And that is the harsh reality of football in 2018. Especially when you get yourselves in the financial wormhole we managed to.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

That's great, good for you, but not everyone is the same. It doesn't make people snobs.

I'd genuinely rather finish, say 8th in the Champo, spending all season pushing and hoping for play-offs, getting it down on the front foot looking a threat, than finish 2nd under Tony Pulis. It's not an ideology; I'd rather long ball then get relegated, and I'd probably take that 2nd if it were in league 1. But there are many things that people want and is isn't snobbery to want "good" football.

I personally think that anyone who genuinely thinks like that should find another hobby. In fact as much as you've said that I don't believe you.

You loved being in the premiership and Europe under Allardyce. When Spurs/West Ham fans said exactly the same you just have.

I'm quite enjoying seeing the likes of Stoke and Southampton fans realise what happens when you get bored of your "boring football managers" and "go for it". Going well for them. Meanwhile the bloke Southampton fans hounded out for being "negative and dour" is in the top half of the premiership. Mind, I've no doubt Southampton fans are happier where they are, so long as they're playing nice football....under Mark Hughes now....oh......

And I think that if you think there's no difference for a fan in watching a team managed by Tony Pulis and one by Pep Guiadiola so long as the results are the same then you're missing something fundamental and brilliant about football. I'm gracious though, so I'll let you keep your hobby.

A few other points:

1) I think 'short passing and 70% possession'=good football is too simplistic. I don't think it can be defined in a paragraph, but high-tempo, front-foot at pace and with control is a good start. That would not cover lumping Wheater and Beevers up top and twatting it at them but it does cover lots of different styles. I reject entirely the idea that the football under Allardyce, particularly for the first few years we started to punch above our weight, was not entertaining. It was shit at times but any team play badly sometimes, and it got a bit too functional by the end, but I did not just love it because we were getting into Europe. That team, with Okocha in his pomp, Djorkaeff early on and then Campo, Hierro, Stelios, Diouf and Speed was a joy to watch at times. It wasn't tiki taka, but it was a lot more controlled and deliberate that smash it at Davies and see what happens. We'd box teams in and build pressure and make chances.

2) the extent to which I'd sacrifice results for entertainment depends on the context. As I said, I'd sacrifice entertainment to get out of League 1. I picked 2nd in my example above on purpose too as I'd probably sacrifice it to win something. I'd probably sacrifice it to get into Europe again. I wouldn't sacrifice it just to finish 13th again in a league we're never going to win, or to get into that league in the first place.

3)I've never had any quibble with Spurs fans or West Ham fans who want to watch good football. Where they have been ridiculous across the years is when they try to use "good football" as some sort of moral victory. I'd rather finish 8th being entertaining than 2nd not, but I wouldn't argue in that case that we somehow "deserved" to finish 2nd. Lots of the West Ham/Spurs stuff was also nonsense: they were shit without being any good to watch, and no-one wants that. It was sour grapes after they lost. I'm not interested in telling anyone else their team is less worthy because I don't care for their style, that isn't up to me. I just want my lot to have a go, and get me off my seat.

4) I did argue in the past that we should stay up at all costs, and I thought the decision to rest players for Wigan made sense at the time. Then we got relegated and football carried on and I realised that way of thinking is part of the Brand Premiership that Sky are so good at selling. Who cares if you don't enjoy it, if you throw away a chance to make history, to win a trophy, to possibly see Bolton in a European final, in Manchester (Rangers in the semis...). No it's best you make sure you're in the Prem again next year, you might even get 12th.

5) You're enjoying seeing Southampton and Stoke struggle, I think it's deeply sad. Even less than when we were there, no-one can compete with the top 6 anymore. You spend a few years scrapping to stay up and play the big boys and then before you know it you're playing for corners in a home game against Watford hoping to nick a 1-0 so you can do it all again next year.

Nope, not for me. As I say, I'm not an idealist. I broadly agree with DSB's Hierarchy of Needs above, with the caveat that "success" is hard to define and depends on context.

The point though, is that people are entitled to want to be entertained when they watch football, and they aren't worse fans, or snobs, or not 'getting' it because scrapping a 1-0 off a set-piece for 9 months is less than appealing.

Yes. That^, all of that.

[TANGODANCER]

I'm thinking (quietly) to myself that beloved Chairman Ken might be advised to go easy on the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune at this moment in time. They're already descending with force upon ye dressing tent and it might be best to let Parky earn his wage without adding to said missiles. A little encouragement might fare better on the battle front. Historians might recall we once hung ye Earl of Derby outside the Man and Scythe. Folk don't forget things like that.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

L Barnsley 1-0 Sheff Utd (Gardner 25')

[jmjhb]

Sheff Utd having a stinker. That last min equaliser knocked their confidence.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

L Barnsley 1-1 Sheff Utd (Fleck 57')

[jmjhb]

Blades winning now.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

L Barnsley 1-2 Sheff Utd (Clarke 65')

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

L Barnsley 2-2 Sheff U (McBurnie 74')

Think that's his ninth in 11 games or something

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

L Barnsley (Bradshaw 88') 3-2 Sheff U

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

L Barnsley (Bradshaw 88') 3-2 Sheff U

FT Barnsley 3-2 Sheff U.

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[TANGODANCER]

Barnsley sticking three past Sheffield...didn't expect that at all....

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

ICYMI: Not a great day.

FT Barnsley 3-2 Sheff U
FT Birmingham 1-1 Burton
FT Derby 3-0 Bolton
FT Hull 4-0 QPR
FT Leeds 1-1 Sunderland
FT Reading 1-0 Preston

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[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Just noticed that in 2012 we were relegated after thinking we were fairly safe in March: we won one of the last eight... against Villa.

We've now won one of our last eight... against Villa.

[GhostoftheBok]

Just noticed that in 2012 we were relegated after thinking we were fairly safe in March: we won one of the last eight... against Villa.

We've now won one of our last eight... against Villa.

By that reckoning we an expect to be relegated and then drop through the lower division too. Oh joy

[DJBlu]

Plenty more twists and turns in the last 5 games. We'll beat Millwall and Wolves whilst drawing at Barnsley. That's how it's been. Turn up for the big games and think we'll walk all over the teams around us.

Birmingham and Barnsley have hit a little bit of form. Reading have turned a corner which means they'll all lose their next games.

[Harry Genshaw]

^ this is my worry. Birmingham Barnsley and Reading have all picked up a bit lately. Even Sunderland have scored 4 in a game.

I can see us beating Millwall and Forest both 1-0 but at best we'd get draws at Barnsley and Burton

[BWFC_Insane]

Our fundamental problem is we aren't scoring nearly enough goals. We never have this season, but in the games since Madine left we're well, well under 1 goal per game. As I kept saying the wins over Bristol City and Villa were not ones you can repeat week in week out. There were specific circumstances (BC were playing their worst spell of the season and the weather caught Villa out) that helped us sneak 1-0's. But the goal against BC was a wonder run and strike. The goal against Villa a mis-hit corner. We can try and stay in games and try to repeat that, but you need a lot to go for you. The opposition has to fail to create much and/or take their chances. And you need something to break your way at the right time. I said it even after those wins, we haven't without Madine found a way of being able to repeatedly get on the front foot and find ways of winning games. And we've tried a lot of different things.

Our best hope is Ameobi, he's the one player that can get the ball and do something. But he's inconsistent and Birmingham bottled him up the other night well. Basically I'd say if you stop Ameobi we've patently got nothing to hurt teams.

Its a real tough situation because naturally you might say play the attacking full backs in a 4 to overlap and give us the wider options as the wingers cut in. Attacking wise that improves us, but we know that Robinson especially makes us more likely to concede chances and if the other team scores....we're dead and buried.

I think Parky should consider putting Little back in, he works well with Ameobi. And playing Robinson down the left flank in place of Buckley. Robinson's pace might be the outlet we need. I know playing an extra defender in an attacking role will get Parky all sorts of flak. But we're at the point where we need to find a way to get behind teams and Buckley isn't going to do that. Robinson might just. And Little and Ameobi can work together to stretch teams the other side.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

^ this is my worry. Birmingham Barnsley and Reading have all picked up a bit lately. Even Sunderland have scored 4 in a game.

I can see us beating Millwall and Forest both 1-0 but at best we'd get draws at Barnsley and Burton

Reading have picked up results, and that is OBVIOUSLY the most important thing, but they have been astonishingly fortunate to do so. In three games under Paul Clement, they've had two efforts on target and gained six points from them.

At home to QPR they were outshot 27 to 5, but Ollie's idiots only got three on target; at home to Preston they were outshot 17 to 5, but again only three of their visitors' attempts were accurate. In the middle, they went to Villa and were frankly battered: 28 attempts to 4, 13 to zero on target.

Across the three games I make it a total of 14 efforts v 72, two on target v 19. You can't keep that sort of run up for long, as Birmingham found out under Cotterill, and sadly we seem to be doing of late – but I don't think we've had a run that bad. Their remaining fixtures are Fulham A, Sunderland H, Sheff Wed A, Ipswich H.