The Politics Thread

[Hoboh]

Just another shining example of how to make our government look ridiculous.

You mean "our government making themselves look ridiculous" surely? This is self inflicted.

They lied, time and time again. And now are exposed. How anyone could vote for them after this is beyond me. But they will.

There really was no need to lie about targets, most reasonable people would be more than happy about a government doing something about ileagal immigrants, lousy judgement and fear of their own shadows is the May way and that IS the failure.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

There shouldn't be a target to deport as that could prejudice decisions. There should be targets to review a percentage of cases in a time period and the decision to deport or not lands where it should based on criteria, not targets.

[BWFC_Insane]

Just another shining example of how to make our government look ridiculous.

You mean "our government making themselves look ridiculous" surely? This is self inflicted.

They lied, time and time again. And now are exposed. How anyone could vote for them after this is beyond me. But they will.

There really was no need to lie about targets, most reasonable people would be more than happy about a government doing something about ileagal immigrants, lousy judgement and fear of their own shadows is the May way and that IS the failure.

Nobody supports targets for such things. People just want things to be processed properly.

[Hoboh]

Just another shining example of how to make our government look ridiculous.

You mean "our government making themselves look ridiculous" surely? This is self inflicted.

They lied, time and time again. And now are exposed. How anyone could vote for them after this is beyond me. But they will.

There really was no need to lie about targets, most reasonable people would be more than happy about a government doing something about ileagal immigrants, lousy judgement and fear of their own shadows is the May way and that IS the failure.

Nobody supports targets for such things. People just want things to be processed properly.

Really, maybe you and your pals in the Marxist party don't or haven't got a clue (cue Abbott) what to do but don't speak for everyone.
See how many would support a target of 100% of illegals removed.

[bedwetter2]

Just another shining example of how to make our government look ridiculous.

You mean "our government making themselves look ridiculous" surely? This is self inflicted.

They lied, time and time again. And now are exposed. How anyone could vote for them after this is beyond me. But they will.

There really was no need to lie about targets, most reasonable people would be more than happy about a government doing something about ileagal immigrants, lousy judgement and fear of their own shadows is the May way and that IS the failure.

Nobody supports targets for such things. People just want things to be processed properly.

Really, maybe you and your pals in the Marxist party don't or haven't got a clue (cue Abbott) what to do but don't speak for everyone.
See how many would support a target of 100% of illegals removed.

The significant problem being that there are estimated to be up to 1.2m illegals in the UK. Does anyone honestly believe that they can all be found and removed/returned to their country of origin? I know where I would look first - the 'hospitality sector'.

This and several previous governments have been both incompetent and negligent in stopping the flood. The legal immigrants who have come here must be fairly peed off to find that all the hoops they went through were for nought. All they needed to do was to charter a boat from a friendly Frenchman and land in a small harbour or on a beach in the night and make away like the illegals do. Allegedly.

Nothing works in this country. Particularly 'civil servants'. Not only in the Home Office but throughout government.

[Prufrock]

Just another shining example of how to make our government look ridiculous.

You mean "our government making themselves look ridiculous" surely? This is self inflicted.

They lied, time and time again. And now are exposed. How anyone could vote for them after this is beyond me. But they will.

There really was no need to lie about targets, most reasonable people would be more than happy about a government doing something about ileagal immigrants, lousy judgement and fear of their own shadows is the May way and that IS the failure.

Nobody supports targets for such things. People just want things to be processed properly.

Really, maybe you and your pals in the Marxist party don't or haven't got a clue (cue Abbott) what to do but don't speak for everyone.
See how many would support a target of 100% of illegals removed.

Sounds good mate. Let's have 0% waste and zero crimes too.

[TANGODANCER]

If only the solutions were all so simple and the questions could even be answered. If the countries of origin of the immigrants were governed and run decently there might well be no illegal imigrants and even fewer legals (or at the very least, a much reduced scenario) . They all want to escape war, famine, poverty and no forseeable hope for the future (oh aye, and maybe crime too) so they escape and head for somewhere where life is liveable and peace reigns...welcome to England. (Yes, there are other countries, but not as inviting as ours) Let's not have to shoulder the blame then for the misdemeanours of other countries for at least having a semblence of sanity and organisation that, however pathetic it appears at times is far preferable to leaving and taking residence elsewhere. Our national health service alone is a magnet to the multi-thousands already here. If you want to doubt it, come and live in Farnworth.

[BWFC_Insane]

Just another shining example of how to make our government look ridiculous.

You mean "our government making themselves look ridiculous" surely? This is self inflicted.

They lied, time and time again. And now are exposed. How anyone could vote for them after this is beyond me. But they will.

There really was no need to lie about targets, most reasonable people would be more than happy about a government doing something about ileagal immigrants, lousy judgement and fear of their own shadows is the May way and that IS the failure.

Nobody supports targets for such things. People just want things to be processed properly.

Really, maybe you and your pals in the Marxist party don't or haven't got a clue (cue Abbott) what to do but don't speak for everyone.
See how many would support a target of 100% of illegals removed.

Targets lead us to things like Windrush. Where was public opinion there? People want cases to be dealt with on an individual basis. Not just lumping loads together and getting rid of them for a "target". The windrush lot were all "illegals". Yet nobody, not one person (apart from perhaps the direct descendants of Enoch Powell) wanted them sent back....

Public opinion is not on your side. People want there to be a judgement applied in each case. You can't do that under the hammer of targets. It is nonsense. It would be like telling a court they need to find at least 50% of the defendants guilty each month....

[Lost Leopard Spot]

The windrush lot were all "illegals".

Wrong.
The law changed in 1973. Those that came over before that and have continuous residence were and are legal. Most of the furore around the "Windrush lot" surrounds the treatment as illegal immigrants for some that claim to be legal - some can prove residency and are legal, some cannot and therefore deemed illegal.

[BWFC_Insane]

The windrush lot were all "illegals".

Wrong.
The law changed in 1973. Those that came over before that and have continuous residence were and are legal. Most of the furore around the "Windrush lot" surrounds the treatment as illegal immigrants for some that claim to be legal - some can prove residency and are legal, some cannot and therefore deemed illegal.

Ok, fair enough. The point is that few have appetite to see them deported. Whether legal (and unable to prove it) or illegal or whatever. But targets and quotas don't take that into account do they? That is why, targets and quotas are meaningless. Targets for dealing with things efficiently and coming to the right decision absolutely. But that is what the measure should be.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

The windrush lot were all "illegals".

Wrong.
The law changed in 1973. Those that came over before that and have continuous residence were and are legal. Most of the furore around the "Windrush lot" surrounds the treatment as illegal immigrants for some that claim to be legal - some can prove residency and are legal, some cannot and therefore deemed illegal.

Ok, fair enough. The point is that few have appetite to see them deported. Whether legal (and unable to prove it) or illegal or whatever. But targets and quotas don't take that into account do they? That is why, targets and quotas are meaningless. Targets for dealing with things efficiently and coming to the right decision absolutely. But that is what the measure should be.

I was merely pointing out an error of statement. I have no opinion as to whether targets and quotas are meaningless within this particular context.

[Hoboh]

Just another shining example of how to make our government look ridiculous.

You mean "our government making themselves look ridiculous" surely? This is self inflicted.

They lied, time and time again. And now are exposed. How anyone could vote for them after this is beyond me. But they will.

There really was no need to lie about targets, most reasonable people would be more than happy about a government doing something about ileagal immigrants, lousy judgement and fear of their own shadows is the May way and that IS the failure.

Nobody supports targets for such things. People just want things to be processed properly.

Really, maybe you and your pals in the Marxist party don't or haven't got a clue (cue Abbott) what to do but don't speak for everyone.
See how many would support a target of 100% of illegals removed.

Targets lead us to things like Windrush. Where was public opinion there? People want cases to be dealt with on an individual basis. Not just lumping loads together and getting rid of them for a "target". The windrush lot were all "illegals". Yet nobody, not one person (apart from perhaps the direct descendants of Enoch Powell) wanted them sent back....

Public opinion is not on your side. People want there to be a judgement applied in each case. You can't do that under the hammer of targets. It is nonsense. It would be like telling a court they need to find at least 50% of the defendants guilty each month....

You mean anti-Semite, anti any one coloured who ain't in the Marxist party ranks type of public opinion?

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Just read an article in the Times by Simon Nixon that espouses us to follow the Estonian model of having a digital ID. It makes perfect sense, and would at one stroke eliminate any future Windrush scandals, and indeed illegals in the economy full stop. The fact only Estonia has established one is a stain on modern society (although Sweden, Denmark, and India are progressing to a full digital ID).

[Montreal Wanderer]

Just read an article in the Times by Simon Nixon that espouses us to follow the Estonian model of having a digital ID. It makes perfect sense, and would at one stroke eliminate any future Windrush scandals, and indeed illegals in the economy full stop. The fact only Estonia has established one is a stain on modern society (although Sweden, Denmark, and India are progressing to a full digital ID).

The Digital ID and Authentication Council of Canada has been working on this since 2012. It is not a simple process and I haven't seen an enddate target yet. If you want it start soon!

[Hoboh]

I await with baited breath the views from our resident Marxist about this massive swing in the local elections to the labour comrades.
Even a brand new party, Kearsley and Farnworth first obliterated the labour candidate so much for public opinion eh?
Couldn't even drag out the new found sympathetic voters in that foreign city London. Maybe they thought they might be asked for ID?

[BWFC_Insane]

I await with baited breath the views from our resident Marxist about this massive swing in the local elections to the labour comrades.
Even a brand new party, Kearsley and Farnworth first obliterated the labour candidate so much for public opinion eh?
Couldn't even drag out the new found sympathetic voters in that foreign city London. Maybe they thought they might be asked for ID?

The results are what you'd expect. A Tory party in total chaos and disillusionment claiming a good night on the basis it wasn't a disastrous wipeout. An impotent Labour party unable to ever really take advantage of the worst government in living memory.

It is status quo. And will remain that way until either the Tories or Labour undergo significant reform. A GE would again be nip and tuck with likely no overall majority either way.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

I await with baited breath the views from our resident Marxist about this massive swing in the local elections to the labour comrades.
Even a brand new party, Kearsley and Farnworth first obliterated the labour candidate so much for public opinion eh?
Couldn't even drag out the new found sympathetic voters in that foreign city London. Maybe they thought they might be asked for ID?

The results are what you'd expect. A Tory party in total chaos and disillusionment claiming a good night on the basis it wasn't a disastrous wipeout. An impotent Labour party unable to ever really take advantage of the worst government in living memory.

It is status quo. And will remain that way until either the Tories or Labour undergo significant reform. A GE would again be nip and tuck with likely no overall majority either way.

You haven't lived long enough if you think this government is the worst in living memory.

[BWFC_Insane]

I await with baited breath the views from our resident Marxist about this massive swing in the local elections to the labour comrades.
Even a brand new party, Kearsley and Farnworth first obliterated the labour candidate so much for public opinion eh?
Couldn't even drag out the new found sympathetic voters in that foreign city London. Maybe they thought they might be asked for ID?

The results are what you'd expect. A Tory party in total chaos and disillusionment claiming a good night on the basis it wasn't a disastrous wipeout. An impotent Labour party unable to ever really take advantage of the worst government in living memory.

It is status quo. And will remain that way until either the Tories or Labour undergo significant reform. A GE would again be nip and tuck with likely no overall majority either way.

You haven't lived long enough if you think this government is the worst in living memory.

An odd phrase. I was a child in the 70's and funnily enough not following politics all that much!

I guess I could make an argument that Thatcher's was the worst in living memory seeing as she single-handedly set about destroying the Northern communities I grew up in. Certainly did the most damage. But she was competently evil, rather than just inept and also evil.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Hardly an odd phrase. Thatcher's government was at least one of many that were much worse than this government. And it was within living memory. Your reputation for hyperbole is well founded.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

...also I see that the EU once more restates that the Irish have a veto over a trade deal. Well whoopy fxcking-doo.
If they veto one we'll have both a hard Brexit and a hard border. At which point the EU and the Irish can go fxck themselves as it'll be their doing.

There is not far from here a border that I've crossed many times, over fifty in fact. On one side is a country that is a member of the EU, EFTA, and is in the Eurozone. The other country is not. There is no customs union or customs partnership between them. Both are members of Schengen and the European Space Agency, but only one of them is a member of Euratom. There is no hard border between them, indeed if you blink you can quite easily miss the fact there is a border there at all. (Can you guess where this mythical border is?).

Also, Barnier et al is continuing his harassment over passporting and the City, claiming that Paris or Hamburg or Somewhereelseineurope can take over where the City leaves off. Really? The City has been formulated and nurtured since the early 1600s. It cannot be replicated by Europe even if the wanted to. In fact Europe will be the first of the economies to suffer if they go down that route. Good luck with that Barnier.