Should Phil Parkinson be sacked?

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

OK, I'll put it in a different way. Do you think we should always play defensively? Did you agree with the team he picked at Burton? Would you like to see Bolton always play that way, regardless of opponents? Do you regard us a "rank, rank outsiders" for a match at Burton?

Again: it's not binary. There are games in which we should play defensively. I thoroughly enjoyed the 0-0 at Norwich, because they were several places above us and expected to win. But if we do it all the time, it becomes a joyless chore. Can you imagine schlepping all that way to East Anglia to watch "what we have, we hold" against a Norwich side who'd been in the bottom two all season and whose recent home record was W1 D4 L13?

[BWFC_Insane]

OK, I'll put it in a different way. Do you think we should always play defensively? Did you agree with the team he picked at Burton? Would you like to see Bolton always play that way, regardless of opponents? Do you regard us a "rank, rank outsiders" for a match at Burton?

Again: it's not binary. There are games in which we should play defensively. I thoroughly enjoyed the 0-0 at Norwich, because they were several places above us and expected to win. But if we do it all the time, it becomes a joyless chore. Can you imagine schlepping all that way to East Anglia to watch "what we have, we hold" against a Norwich side who'd been in the bottom two all season and whose recent home record was W1 D4 L13?

We should play in whatever way is effective. I don't particularly care if we grind out 0-0's and 1-0's all season if we're good at it.

Its frustrating when it doesn't work, but in the premiership under Sam we played some ugly stuff that looked awful when we had bad runs.

I don't really buy into style of play at all. Make us effective on the budget you've got. Often that means, dogs of war and block everything. But make it work.

The issue at Burton was he picked cowards when we needed lions. I'm sure he knows that now too.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

It's not about "style of play" in that I'm not saying we should play like Brazil 70 in those games. I'm saying we should look to win them rather than not to lose them. That to me seems to be a fundamental issue. It's clearly either a communication problem (one way or the other!) or we'll just never reach an understanding.

"The issue at Burton was he picked cowards when we needed lions. I'm sure he knows that now too."

That's one issue, which can be placed "on" the players but can also be placed "on" the bloke who picked them. Another is that he picked defensive full-backs and three defensive midfielders (playing one supposedly at No.10) against a team who've been almost record-breakingly shit at home. If there's a coward there, it's Parkinson. If he stays on, I hope to God he's learned from it.

[BWFC_Insane]

It's not about "style of play" in that I'm not saying we should play like Brazil 70 in those games. I'm saying we should look to win them rather than not to lose them. That to me seems to be a fundamental issue. It's clearly either a communication problem (one way or the other!) or we'll just never reach an understanding.

"The issue at Burton was he picked cowards when we needed lions. I'm sure he knows that now too."

That's one issue, which can be placed "on" the players but can also be placed "on" the bloke who picked them. Another is that he picked defensive full-backs and three defensive midfielders (playing one supposedly at No.10) against a team who've been almost record-breakingly shit at home. If there's a coward there, it's Parkinson. If he stays on, I hope to God he's learned from it.

See I think it all becomes a bit binary. I'm sure he didn't pick a team to not try and win. I suspect he picked one that he thought would be solid, compete in midfield and play from there. It didn't work out. And he did get it wrong.

But as ever, there were times Allardyce did similar here, and it went wrong. Nobody gets it right all the time.

It is such a fine line. Little's inability to defend cost us on Sunday. Had we only managed a 2-2 I've no doubt some fans would be saying "should have played Flanagan".

I want him to build a team that is good at whatever we try and do. But primarily I want him to have the chance to build, not just clutch at straws as they pass by in the wind and hope he catches enough to thatch a roof.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

See I think it all becomes a bit binary. I'm sure he didn't pick a team to not try and win. I suspect he picked one that he thought would be solid, compete in midfield and play from there. It didn't work out. And he did get it wrong.

But as ever, there were times Allardyce did similar here, and it went wrong. Nobody gets it right all the time.

It is such a fine line. Little's inability to defend cost us on Sunday. Had we only managed a 2-2 I've no doubt some fans would be saying "should have played Flanagan".

I want him to build a team that is good at whatever we try and do. But primarily I want him to have the chance to build, not just clutch at straws as they pass by in the wind and hope he catches enough to thatch a roof.

I'm not saying he wasn't trying to win at Burton. I'm saying he was trying to do it in an unnecessarily cowardly way. And a very wrong way. It was a huge huge match and he got it cataclysmically wrong. That shouldn't be forgotten in the understandable elation.

I don't think many were crying out for Flanagan, but I do think that had Albi not scored that winner (after missing several chances), thousands might have said Alf should have played from the start. Very fine margins indeed.

Lovely straw metaphor, and I agree – just about. He's had a very hard row to hoe, and in a way it would be a great shame for him if he was turfed just as we got (some) money to spend. But likesay, bigger issues are at stake "upstairs".

[BWFC_Insane]

See I think it all becomes a bit binary. I'm sure he didn't pick a team to not try and win. I suspect he picked one that he thought would be solid, compete in midfield and play from there. It didn't work out. And he did get it wrong.

But as ever, there were times Allardyce did similar here, and it went wrong. Nobody gets it right all the time.

It is such a fine line. Little's inability to defend cost us on Sunday. Had we only managed a 2-2 I've no doubt some fans would be saying "should have played Flanagan".

I want him to build a team that is good at whatever we try and do. But primarily I want him to have the chance to build, not just clutch at straws as they pass by in the wind and hope he catches enough to thatch a roof.

I'm not saying he wasn't trying to win at Burton. I'm saying he was trying to do it in an unnecessarily cowardly way. And a very wrong way. It was a huge huge match and he got it cataclysmically wrong. That shouldn't be forgotten in the understandable elation.

I don't think many were crying out for Flanagan, but I do think that had Albi not scored that winner (after missing several chances), thousands might have said Alf should have played from the start. Very fine margins indeed.

Lovely straw metaphor, and I agree – just about. He's had a very hard row to hoe, and in a way it would be a great shame for him if he was turfed just as we got (some) money to spend. But likesay, bigger issues are at stake "upstairs".

Yep - the ownership needs sorting. I have a feeling nothing is happening quickly, these things usually take a long old time.

I think as a manager I place man management and motivation and keeping things together, higher than tactics or team selections, which I think are generally hugely overblown by fans. Burton was clearly a mistake. Not arguing otherwise. But I don't think Allardyce has had the career he has (or Sir Alex for that matter) because they are tactical geniuses. Few managers really impact in that way. They were good because they had the knack of keeping players onside and getting the results when it counted. It is a skill that our managers since Allardyce have all lacked. There was scant evidence the players were really playing for them. Parky is the first where I believe that generally the players want to play for him. We had a wobble. But the wobble wasn't terminal.

[Prufrock]

See I think it all becomes a bit binary. I'm sure he didn't pick a team to not try and win. I suspect he picked one that he thought would be solid, compete in midfield and play from there. It didn't work out. And he did get it wrong.

But as ever, there were times Allardyce did similar here, and it went wrong. Nobody gets it right all the time.

It is such a fine line. Little's inability to defend cost us on Sunday. Had we only managed a 2-2 I've no doubt some fans would be saying "should have played Flanagan".

I want him to build a team that is good at whatever we try and do. But primarily I want him to have the chance to build, not just clutch at straws as they pass by in the wind and hope he catches enough to thatch a roof.

I'm not saying he wasn't trying to win at Burton. I'm saying he was trying to do it in an unnecessarily cowardly way. And a very wrong way. It was a huge huge match and he got it cataclysmically wrong. That shouldn't be forgotten in the understandable elation.

I don't think many were crying out for Flanagan, but I do think that had Albi not scored that winner (after missing several chances), thousands might have said Alf should have played from the start. Very fine margins indeed.

Lovely straw metaphor, and I agree – just about. He's had a very hard row to hoe, and in a way it would be a great shame for him if he was turfed just as we got (some) money to spend. But likesay, bigger issues are at stake "upstairs".

Yep - the ownership needs sorting. I have a feeling nothing is happening quickly, these things usually take a long old time.

I think as a manager I place man management and motivation and keeping things together, higher than tactics or team selections, which I think are generally hugely overblown by fans. Burton was clearly a mistake. Not arguing otherwise. But I don't think Allardyce has had the career he has (or Sir Alex for that matter) because they are tactical geniuses. Few managers really impact in that way. They were good because they had the knack of keeping players onside and getting the results when it counted. It is a skill that our managers since Allardyce have all lacked. There was scant evidence the players were really playing for them. Parky is the first where I believe that generally the players want to play for him. We had a wobble. But the wobble wasn't terminal.

Agree with the ownership point; I'll plait fog if it's done before the summer window ends.

Disagree big time with the rest. Fans are far too keen to see tactics as numbers on a page with their own attributes; however they are vital.

Sam and Ferguson both very good tacticians. Sam's big three positives were: signing strategy; sport science; and all that POMO stuff. The final one is tactical and hugely important to our success. We used to batter teams into submission by winning every knock-down, every second ball. That was the point of all that "fines for shooting from outside the box" play off SKD stuff. That's tactical.

Big difference between Ferguson and Wenger was that Ferguson had a tactical brain and adapted. He learned from getting played off the pitch in Europe every year, was one of the first to play with 5 in midfield. Wenger just did what had always worked.

Tactics without the players are not enough, and much better players will usually beat worse regardless of tactics; however, in any league structure huge gulfs in quality are relatively rare and so tactical savvy is very important. The difference in tactical brain behind Sam (who would play SKD wide right if we were up against Evra for example), versus Owen Coyle, "Muamba is coming off on 60 regardless" is stark.

I have sympathy for Parky. For most of the time he has been here the team has picked itself and so he's had to go with 4-5-1 then 3-5-2. January was the first time our squad got better (thought he first XI got worse) and it becomes harder to juggle that. He'd gone from Little or Darby (Little, clearly, every time) to Little or Flanagan (depends). Makes it tougher because now fans with hindsight have a stick to beat you with.

There are many many factors that go into a team's performance though, one of them is attitude. Sounds like we got that horrendously wrong at Burton (and initially at Barnsley) and that part of that probably comes from the conservative team selection. He has to learn that some games away from home you have to try to win. I think Parky has done a good job, a very good job, and wholeheartedly deserves to stay. Our away record is a disgrace though, and I think attitude plays a big part in that.

[BWFC_Insane]

See I think it all becomes a bit binary. I'm sure he didn't pick a team to not try and win. I suspect he picked one that he thought would be solid, compete in midfield and play from there. It didn't work out. And he did get it wrong.

But as ever, there were times Allardyce did similar here, and it went wrong. Nobody gets it right all the time.

It is such a fine line. Little's inability to defend cost us on Sunday. Had we only managed a 2-2 I've no doubt some fans would be saying "should have played Flanagan".

I want him to build a team that is good at whatever we try and do. But primarily I want him to have the chance to build, not just clutch at straws as they pass by in the wind and hope he catches enough to thatch a roof.

I'm not saying he wasn't trying to win at Burton. I'm saying he was trying to do it in an unnecessarily cowardly way. And a very wrong way. It was a huge huge match and he got it cataclysmically wrong. That shouldn't be forgotten in the understandable elation.

I don't think many were crying out for Flanagan, but I do think that had Albi not scored that winner (after missing several chances), thousands might have said Alf should have played from the start. Very fine margins indeed.

Lovely straw metaphor, and I agree – just about. He's had a very hard row to hoe, and in a way it would be a great shame for him if he was turfed just as we got (some) money to spend. But likesay, bigger issues are at stake "upstairs".

Yep - the ownership needs sorting. I have a feeling nothing is happening quickly, these things usually take a long old time.

I think as a manager I place man management and motivation and keeping things together, higher than tactics or team selections, which I think are generally hugely overblown by fans. Burton was clearly a mistake. Not arguing otherwise. But I don't think Allardyce has had the career he has (or Sir Alex for that matter) because they are tactical geniuses. Few managers really impact in that way. They were good because they had the knack of keeping players onside and getting the results when it counted. It is a skill that our managers since Allardyce have all lacked. There was scant evidence the players were really playing for them. Parky is the first where I believe that generally the players want to play for him. We had a wobble. But the wobble wasn't terminal.

Agree with the ownership point; I'll plait fog if it's done before the summer window ends.

Disagree big time with the rest. Fans are far too keen to see tactics as numbers on a page with their own attributes; however they are vital.

Sam and Ferguson both very good tacticians. Sam's big three positives were: signing strategy; sport science; and all that POMO stuff. The final one is tactical and hugely important to our success. We used to batter teams into submission by winning every knock-down, every second ball. That was the point of all that "fines for shooting from outside the box" play off SKD stuff. That's tactical.

Big difference between Ferguson and Wenger was that Ferguson had a tactical brain and adapted. He learned from getting played off the pitch in Europe every year, was one of the first to play with 5 in midfield. Wenger just did what had always worked.

Tactics without the players are not enough, and much better players will usually beat worse regardless of tactics; however, in any league structure huge gulfs in quality are relatively rare and so tactical savvy is very important. The difference in tactical brain behind Sam (who would play SKD wide right if we were up against Evra for example), versus Owen Coyle, "Muamba is coming off on 60 regardless" is stark.

I have sympathy for Parky. For most of the time he has been here the team has picked itself and so he's had to go with 4-5-1 then 3-5-2. January was the first time our squad got better (thought he first XI got worse) and it becomes harder to juggle that. He'd gone from Little or Darby (Little, clearly, every time) to Little or Flanagan (depends). Makes it tougher because now fans with hindsight have a stick to beat you with.

There are many many factors that go into a team's performance though, one of them is attitude. Sounds like we got that horrendously wrong at Burton (and initially at Barnsley) and that part of that probably comes from the conservative team selection. He has to learn that some games away from home you have to try to win. I think Parky has done a good job, a very good job, and wholeheartedly deserves to stay. Our away record is a disgrace though, and I think attitude plays a big part in that.

Yeah it again is a bit binary and this time my fault. That is sort of what I meant in that tactics aren't a simple "lets play X instead of Y" or lets go with a back 3....it's usually more the overall attention to detail. Individual games are rarely IMO changed by a tactical decision, there are of course times they are.

And I agree, the issue with the Barnsley and Burton teams was probably emphasis. There isn't anything wrong going away from home with a combative setup designed to be solid. But in both cases the opposition would be in our faces too, and Parky picked players who wouldn't deal well with that and left us short of outlets. It needed a tweak and it got one at Barnsley.

Bolton fans used to moan a lot about Sam's reliance on POMO - fine example when he was instructing Okocha to trott across and take long throws...but Sam worked on the basis that short throws often end up losing possession anyway so you might as well get it in the box and lose it, with the chance that you can win the second ball and create a chance directly. That sort of attention to detail and planning was ahead of its time, but everyone is doing that now, working out their best chance to score etc....


I think its just simplistic to say "play a different team and we'd win" and use that as an example of poor tactical ability. Parky is absolutely no Mourinho, but the league winners have a manager who plays the same way, week in week out (by admission) and will never change. Parky has shown enough flexibility under tricky circumstances to be classed as more than passable on a tactical basis. No manager will get it right all the time.

[bristol_Wanderer3]

If (not suggesting we necessarily should) we were looking to make a change, Paul Hurst from Shrewsbury would be another name to throw into the ring. Having watched them last night for the third time in recent times, he has done really well there on a bottom half budget, and with a lot of players he has bought from non-league and L2. They are both strong and no-nonsense and enterprising at the same time, and always compact and organized. And he seems really calm and assured. Jon Nolan looks a really good number 10 type too who could play in the Championship.

[BWFC_Insane]

If (not suggesting we necessarily should) we were looking to make a change, Paul Hurst from Shrewsbury would be another name to throw into the ring. Having watched them last night for the third time in recent times, he has done really well there on a bottom half budget, and with a lot of players he has bought from non-league and L2. They are both strong and no-nonsense and enterprising at the same time, and always compact and organized. And he seems really calm and assured. Jon Nolan looks a really good number 10 type too who could play in the Championship.

If we're replacing Parky, we replace him with someone proven at this level or higher. Not someone from down the food chain who is a total risk. We've tried that and not found it successful.

[Prufrock]

Have we?! Last few appointments prior to PP we've gone for a "name" rather than someone who's shown they can do the job in similar circumstances. If we were to get rid, someone with a track record of working with no money would be far more important to me than a "track record" of managing in the Championship, whatever that means.

Oh no, how will I adapt to exactly the same game with slightly better players.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

If I was Ken Anderson, I'd appoint the manager who came through a mass interview selection process. You would need, of course, a seriously constrained set of questions to put to the candidates... But, really, I'd fling it wide open, and be pleased if eight million worldwide applicants took part.

[TANGODANCER]

The fact that we are showing interest in players might tend to make me believe Parky will be staying.Surely the club (Ken) won't be operating without consulting him? I'd think the priority would be to get the manager in place first job, unless of course a confirmed interest puts a stop on that decision ?

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

The fact that we are showing interest in players might tend to make me believe Parky will be staying.Surely the club (Ken) won't be operating without consulting him? I'd think the priority would be to get the manager in place first job, unless of course a confirmed interest puts a stop on that decision ?

I wouldn't leap to that conclusion, TD. For a start, the interest we're showing in players is just rumoured. If we were to get investment (or a takeover) from somebody rich, we might not be scratching around for injury=prone thirtysomethings like McGoldrick.

Although KA & PP will have been discussing possible transfer targets, a more immediate problem may be which players to release and which to retain. Again that could be left a while but not too long as under contract law we have to offer players contracts or release them by the third Saturday in May (NB clubs in play-offs get extensions). And these decisions can be made in between managers; I'll never forget that tucked right at the bottom of the Bolton News back page story introducing our new manager Bruce Rioch was the news that Mike Jeffery had been released.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

If (not suggesting we necessarily should) we were looking to make a change, Paul Hurst from Shrewsbury would be another name to throw into the ring. Having watched them last night for the third time in recent times, he has done really well there on a bottom half budget, and with a lot of players he has bought from non-league and L2. They are both strong and no-nonsense and enterprising at the same time, and always compact and organized. And he seems really calm and assured. Jon Nolan looks a really good number 10 type too who could play in the Championship.

If we're replacing Parky, we replace him with someone proven at this level or higher. Not someone from down the food chain who is a total risk. We've tried that and not found it successful.

Have we?! Last few appointments prior to PP we've gone for a "name" rather than someone who's shown they can do the job in similar circumstances. If we were to get rid, someone with a track record of working with no money would be far more important to me than a "track record" of managing in the Championship, whatever that means.

Oh no, how will I adapt to exactly the same game with slightly better players.

Been thinking about this. I know what BWFCi means (I was certainly glad when Barnsley took a flyer on Morais) but IMO it's an overstated need to "know the division". And apparently a lot of clubs agree, given the CVs they approved:

Champions Wolves’ Nuno Espirito Santo hadn’t managed a single game in this division.
5th-placed Boro’s Tony Pulís hadn’t managed in it since 2007.
7th-placed Preston’s Alex Neil is 36, so he can hardly be castigated for only having nine months’ Champo experience when they hired him last summer; he nudged them up from finishing 11th twice to 7th this time.
8th-placed Millwall’s Neil Harris hadn’t managed in it at all (although he’d been caretaker when Millwall went down).
9th-placed Brentford’s Dean Smith hadn’t managed above the third tier when he joined the Bees, who’ve subsequently been finished in the top 10 three consecutive times.
10th-placed Sheffield United’s Chris Wilder hadn’t managed above the third tier before this season.
11th-placed Bristol City’s Lee Johnson is 36 and hadn’t managed above the third tier when the Robins hired him (at the age of 34).
Further down, Leeds boss Paul Heckingbottom’s only second-tier experience was with Barnsley. Norwich’s Daniel Farke and Sheffield Wednesday’s Jos Luhukay had none whatsoever.

The right man is the right man. Looking at this year's clubs, the managers drenched in tier-two savvy aren't exactly sailing. Obviously Neil Warnock (who's managed 560 games in this division) did well, but other old hands not so. Mick McCarthy (446 games) got the flick. Ian Holloway (452) got the flick. Nigel Clough (305) went down. Chris Coleman (135) went down AND got the flick. Steve Bruce (260) will be under enormous pressure if he doesn’t go up. Knowing the division didn’t save Simon Grayson at Sunderland, Garry Monk at Boro, Carlos Carvalhal at Wednesday, Mark Warburton at Forest or Steve Cotterill at Birmingham.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

If (not suggesting we necessarily should) we were looking to make a change, Paul Hurst from Shrewsbury would be another name to throw into the ring. Having watched them last night for the third time in recent times, he has done really well there on a bottom half budget, and with a lot of players he has bought from non-league and L2. They are both strong and no-nonsense and enterprising at the same time, and always compact and organized. And he seems really calm and assured. Jon Nolan looks a really good number 10 type too who could play in the Championship.

If we're replacing Parky, we replace him with someone proven at this level or higher. Not someone from down the food chain who is a total risk. We've tried that and not found it successful.

Have we?! Last few appointments prior to PP we've gone for a "name" rather than someone who's shown they can do the job in similar circumstances. If we were to get rid, someone with a track record of working with no money would be far more important to me than a "track record" of managing in the Championship, whatever that means.

Oh no, how will I adapt to exactly the same game with slightly better players.

Been thinking about this. I know what BWFCi means (I was certainly glad when Barnsley took a flyer on Morais) but IMO it's an overstated need to "know the division". And apparently a lot of clubs agree, given the CVs they approved:

Champions Wolves’ Nuno Espirito Santo hadn’t managed a single game in this division.
5th-placed Boro’s Tony Pulís hadn’t managed in it since 2007.
7th-placed Preston’s Alex Neil is 36, so he can hardly be castigated for only having nine months’ Champo experience when they hired him last summer; he nudged them up from finishing 11th twice to 7th this time.
8th-placed Millwall’s Neil Harris hadn’t managed in it at all (although he’d been caretaker when Millwall went down).
9th-placed Brentford’s Dean Smith hadn’t managed above the third tier when he joined the Bees, who’ve subsequently been finished in the top 10 three consecutive times.
10th-placed Sheffield United’s Chris Wilder hadn’t managed above the third tier before this season.
11th-placed Bristol City’s Lee Johnson is 36 and hadn’t managed above the third tier when the Robins hired him (at the age of 34).
Further down, Leeds boss Paul Heckingbottom’s only second-tier experience was with Barnsley. Norwich’s Daniel Farke and Sheffield Wednesday’s Jos Luhukay had none whatsoever.

The right man is the right man. Looking at this year's clubs, the managers drenched in tier-two savvy aren't exactly sailing. Obviously Neil Warnock (who's managed 560 games in this division) did well, but other old hands not so. Mick McCarthy (446 games) got the flick. Ian Holloway (452) got the flick. Nigel Clough (305) went down. Chris Coleman (135) went down AND got the flick. Steve Bruce (260) will be under enormous pressure if he doesn’t go up. Knowing the division didn’t save Simon Grayson at Sunderland, Garry Monk at Boro, Carlos Carvalhal at Wednesday, Mark Warburton at Forest or Steve Cotterill at Birmingham.

Guardiola, Mourinho, Klopp, etc.
How many knew anything at all about the league they managed in (i.e. The Premiership) before being first appointed to an English club?
It matters nothing what they know about a division, it's how good they are that counts.
We should be looking abroad to second division clubs in Argentina/Germany/Spain etc or Premier division managers from Norway/Denmark/Serbia etc.
Scottish managers have been proportionately more successful in English divisions than English managers for example.
We need to break the mould and be forward thinking [sic].

[BWFC_Insane]

If (not suggesting we necessarily should) we were looking to make a change, Paul Hurst from Shrewsbury would be another name to throw into the ring. Having watched them last night for the third time in recent times, he has done really well there on a bottom half budget, and with a lot of players he has bought from non-league and L2. They are both strong and no-nonsense and enterprising at the same time, and always compact and organized. And he seems really calm and assured. Jon Nolan looks a really good number 10 type too who could play in the Championship.

If we're replacing Parky, we replace him with someone proven at this level or higher. Not someone from down the food chain who is a total risk. We've tried that and not found it successful.

Have we?! Last few appointments prior to PP we've gone for a "name" rather than someone who's shown they can do the job in similar circumstances. If we were to get rid, someone with a track record of working with no money would be far more important to me than a "track record" of managing in the Championship, whatever that means.

Oh no, how will I adapt to exactly the same game with slightly better players.

Been thinking about this. I know what BWFCi means (I was certainly glad when Barnsley took a flyer on Morais) but IMO it's an overstated need to "know the division". And apparently a lot of clubs agree, given the CVs they approved:

Champions Wolves’ Nuno Espirito Santo hadn’t managed a single game in this division.
5th-placed Boro’s Tony Pulís hadn’t managed in it since 2007.
7th-placed Preston’s Alex Neil is 36, so he can hardly be castigated for only having nine months’ Champo experience when they hired him last summer; he nudged them up from finishing 11th twice to 7th this time.
8th-placed Millwall’s Neil Harris hadn’t managed in it at all (although he’d been caretaker when Millwall went down).
9th-placed Brentford’s Dean Smith hadn’t managed above the third tier when he joined the Bees, who’ve subsequently been finished in the top 10 three consecutive times.
10th-placed Sheffield United’s Chris Wilder hadn’t managed above the third tier before this season.
11th-placed Bristol City’s Lee Johnson is 36 and hadn’t managed above the third tier when the Robins hired him (at the age of 34).
Further down, Leeds boss Paul Heckingbottom’s only second-tier experience was with Barnsley. Norwich’s Daniel Farke and Sheffield Wednesday’s Jos Luhukay had none whatsoever.

The right man is the right man. Looking at this year's clubs, the managers drenched in tier-two savvy aren't exactly sailing. Obviously Neil Warnock (who's managed 560 games in this division) did well, but other old hands not so. Mick McCarthy (446 games) got the flick. Ian Holloway (452) got the flick. Nigel Clough (305) went down. Chris Coleman (135) went down AND got the flick. Steve Bruce (260) will be under enormous pressure if he doesn’t go up. Knowing the division didn’t save Simon Grayson at Sunderland, Garry Monk at Boro, Carlos Carvalhal at Wednesday, Mark Warburton at Forest or Steve Cotterill at Birmingham.

Firstly Wolves - with their resources, different kettle of fish. Not comparable.

Secondly, Pulis fits into the category of a manager who a) knows what he's doing b) has an extensive track record of proven success in English football.

The rest, yes, but how many of those kind of gambles don't work out? Its like picking a name out of a hat and hoping. We did it with Allardyce, perhaps brilliantly or brilliantly lucky. Who cares? But then Freedman and Coyle immediately show that just picking up the hot young thing down the food chain is more often folly than brilliance.

In our situation as it stands, it demands considerable experience and a huge amount of desire and will.

[BWFC_Insane]

If (not suggesting we necessarily should) we were looking to make a change, Paul Hurst from Shrewsbury would be another name to throw into the ring. Having watched them last night for the third time in recent times, he has done really well there on a bottom half budget, and with a lot of players he has bought from non-league and L2. They are both strong and no-nonsense and enterprising at the same time, and always compact and organized. And he seems really calm and assured. Jon Nolan looks a really good number 10 type too who could play in the Championship.

If we're replacing Parky, we replace him with someone proven at this level or higher. Not someone from down the food chain who is a total risk. We've tried that and not found it successful.

Have we?! Last few appointments prior to PP we've gone for a "name" rather than someone who's shown they can do the job in similar circumstances. If we were to get rid, someone with a track record of working with no money would be far more important to me than a "track record" of managing in the Championship, whatever that means.

Oh no, how will I adapt to exactly the same game with slightly better players.

Been thinking about this. I know what BWFCi means (I was certainly glad when Barnsley took a flyer on Morais) but IMO it's an overstated need to "know the division". And apparently a lot of clubs agree, given the CVs they approved:

Champions Wolves’ Nuno Espirito Santo hadn’t managed a single game in this division.
5th-placed Boro’s Tony Pulís hadn’t managed in it since 2007.
7th-placed Preston’s Alex Neil is 36, so he can hardly be castigated for only having nine months’ Champo experience when they hired him last summer; he nudged them up from finishing 11th twice to 7th this time.
8th-placed Millwall’s Neil Harris hadn’t managed in it at all (although he’d been caretaker when Millwall went down).
9th-placed Brentford’s Dean Smith hadn’t managed above the third tier when he joined the Bees, who’ve subsequently been finished in the top 10 three consecutive times.
10th-placed Sheffield United’s Chris Wilder hadn’t managed above the third tier before this season.
11th-placed Bristol City’s Lee Johnson is 36 and hadn’t managed above the third tier when the Robins hired him (at the age of 34).
Further down, Leeds boss Paul Heckingbottom’s only second-tier experience was with Barnsley. Norwich’s Daniel Farke and Sheffield Wednesday’s Jos Luhukay had none whatsoever.

The right man is the right man. Looking at this year's clubs, the managers drenched in tier-two savvy aren't exactly sailing. Obviously Neil Warnock (who's managed 560 games in this division) did well, but other old hands not so. Mick McCarthy (446 games) got the flick. Ian Holloway (452) got the flick. Nigel Clough (305) went down. Chris Coleman (135) went down AND got the flick. Steve Bruce (260) will be under enormous pressure if he doesn’t go up. Knowing the division didn’t save Simon Grayson at Sunderland, Garry Monk at Boro, Carlos Carvalhal at Wednesday, Mark Warburton at Forest or Steve Cotterill at Birmingham.

Guardiola, Mourinho, Klopp, etc.
How many knew anything at all about the league they managed in (i.e. The Premiership) before being first appointed to an English club?
It matters nothing what they know about a division, it's how good they are that counts.
We should be looking abroad to second division clubs in Argentina/Germany/Spain etc or Premier division managers from Norway/Denmark/Serbia etc.
Scottish managers have been proportionately more successful in English divisions than English managers for example.
We need to break the mould and be forward thinking [sic].

All three managers you mention were at the very top end of the game and had proven their ability before coming here. And also went to clubs able to provide them top end budgets to recruit as they saw fit. Totally and utterly different ball game.

Even in Guardiola's case a lot of City fans wanted him out after a poor first season there where clearly he hadn't adjusted his style to English football.

The idea that there are loads of great managers lurking in lower league foreign football is absurd. Totally absurd. There of course will be the odd gem, but finding them is like a needle in a haystack.

[TANGODANCER]

Dave Wheater has announced his support for Parky in today's Bolton News:

http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/wa ... Wanderers/

[Lost Leopard Spot]

If (not suggesting we necessarily should) we were looking to make a change, Paul Hurst from Shrewsbury would be another name to throw into the ring. Having watched them last night for the third time in recent times, he has done really well there on a bottom half budget, and with a lot of players he has bought from non-league and L2. They are both strong and no-nonsense and enterprising at the same time, and always compact and organized. And he seems really calm and assured. Jon Nolan looks a really good number 10 type too who could play in the Championship.

If we're replacing Parky, we replace him with someone proven at this level or higher. Not someone from down the food chain who is a total risk. We've tried that and not found it successful.

Have we?! Last few appointments prior to PP we've gone for a "name" rather than someone who's shown they can do the job in similar circumstances. If we were to get rid, someone with a track record of working with no money would be far more important to me than a "track record" of managing in the Championship, whatever that means.

Oh no, how will I adapt to exactly the same game with slightly better players.

Been thinking about this. I know what BWFCi means (I was certainly glad when Barnsley took a flyer on Morais) but IMO it's an overstated need to "know the division". And apparently a lot of clubs agree, given the CVs they approved:

Champions Wolves’ Nuno Espirito Santo hadn’t managed a single game in this division.
5th-placed Boro’s Tony Pulís hadn’t managed in it since 2007.
7th-placed Preston’s Alex Neil is 36, so he can hardly be castigated for only having nine months’ Champo experience when they hired him last summer; he nudged them up from finishing 11th twice to 7th this time.
8th-placed Millwall’s Neil Harris hadn’t managed in it at all (although he’d been caretaker when Millwall went down).
9th-placed Brentford’s Dean Smith hadn’t managed above the third tier when he joined the Bees, who’ve subsequently been finished in the top 10 three consecutive times.
10th-placed Sheffield United’s Chris Wilder hadn’t managed above the third tier before this season.
11th-placed Bristol City’s Lee Johnson is 36 and hadn’t managed above the third tier when the Robins hired him (at the age of 34).
Further down, Leeds boss Paul Heckingbottom’s only second-tier experience was with Barnsley. Norwich’s Daniel Farke and Sheffield Wednesday’s Jos Luhukay had none whatsoever.

The right man is the right man. Looking at this year's clubs, the managers drenched in tier-two savvy aren't exactly sailing. Obviously Neil Warnock (who's managed 560 games in this division) did well, but other old hands not so. Mick McCarthy (446 games) got the flick. Ian Holloway (452) got the flick. Nigel Clough (305) went down. Chris Coleman (135) went down AND got the flick. Steve Bruce (260) will be under enormous pressure if he doesn’t go up. Knowing the division didn’t save Simon Grayson at Sunderland, Garry Monk at Boro, Carlos Carvalhal at Wednesday, Mark Warburton at Forest or Steve Cotterill at Birmingham.

Guardiola, Mourinho, Klopp, etc.
How many knew anything at all about the league they managed in (i.e. The Premiership) before being first appointed to an English club?
It matters nothing what they know about a division, it's how good they are that counts.
We should be looking abroad to second division clubs in Argentina/Germany/Spain etc or Premier division managers from Norway/Denmark/Serbia etc.
Scottish managers have been proportionately more successful in English divisions than English managers for example.
We need to break the mould and be forward thinking [sic].

All three managers you mention were at the very top end of the game and had proven their ability before coming here. And also went to clubs able to provide them top end budgets to recruit as they saw fit. Totally and utterly different ball game.

Even in Guardiola's case a lot of City fans wanted him out after a poor first season there where clearly he hadn't adjusted his style to English football.

The idea that there are loads of great managers lurking in lower league foreign football is absurd. Totally absurd. There of course will be the odd gem, but finding them is like a needle in a haystack.

Is it fxck absurd, totally absurd! What a dickhead statement.
That's like saying that just a few years ago it would be absurd looking for footballing gems in places like Senegal, Algeria, Gambia, Ivory Coast, Nigeria, Togo and Ghana. Who'd'a thunk it, eh, how absurd, totally absurd.