The Politics Thread

[Lost Leopard Spot]

I am absolutely not having this crap that 'the man in the street' cannot understand politics. Bullshit.
Two things:
1. Europe is shitting itself at the prospect of losing our contribution to its budget - hence the artificial importance of the Irish backstop/border bullshit.
If we walked out with a True No Deal, the Irish backstop/border issue would be so subsumed in other issues it would be meaningless.
2. They weren't 'All Lies'. The figures themselves still are relevant.Indeed May has even signed up to provide the "NHS Supplement" no matter what.
But, more importantly, we're leaving but not leaving and therefore still paying into the monstrous European budget not because politicians or voters cannot work out what is going on, but because more than half the elected bloody representatives refuse to enact legislation that the electorate wants.
It wouldn't be such a clusterfxck if (for example) Patrick fxckMcloughlan actually voted in parliament in line with his constituents' desires.

Nobody knows what was voted for. At the time plenty of leavers were saying ‘leave doesn’t necessarily mean we leave the EEA and CU’. So I would say nobody knew what Brexit meant. Even a year after the vote nobody knew.

The negotiations have been botched beyond all belief by the most incompetent government in living memory. It’s embarrassing and their party is breaking apart.

However, whilst I disagree fundamentally on every level with Brexit I do have some sympathy with your view. The government doesn’t believe in Brexit and therefore won’t deliver it. I agree with May’s reasoning but she hasn’t had the balls to come out and say ‘this is for the best suck it up’. So it’s left to fester and everything she does is to save her political skin not for the good of us.

However when you have Brexiteer Raab saying he didn’t know how important the channel border was for trade - I think you basically sum up that nobody involved in proposing or supporting Brexit had the slightest handle on the complexities involved. Let alone the ‘man on the street’. In fact listening to various phone in’s it’s quite obvious that many who voted didn’t understand the basics of how international trade works now. Let alone how Brexit could impact on it.

What I put to you is, given the government can’t and won’t deliver anything to please anyone. And given Parliament is in gridlock. Is a second vote not the best chance of achieving what you want? Giving the government a clear mandate and instruction for a no deal Brexit? I see the risk for you is the vote goes the other way. But at least then the public could finally put this to bed.

I’ve not been in favour of another vote but now even if the opinions are ‘May’s deal’ or ‘No deal’ at least the public could give a verdict and hopefully end this horrendous charade forever.

You've "Put it to me".
I think the latest thread answers that.

[BWFC_Insane]

I am absolutely not having this crap that 'the man in the street' cannot understand politics. Bullshit.
Two things:
1. Europe is shitting itself at the prospect of losing our contribution to its budget - hence the artificial importance of the Irish backstop/border bullshit.
If we walked out with a True No Deal, the Irish backstop/border issue would be so subsumed in other issues it would be meaningless.
2. They weren't 'All Lies'. The figures themselves still are relevant.Indeed May has even signed up to provide the "NHS Supplement" no matter what.
But, more importantly, we're leaving but not leaving and therefore still paying into the monstrous European budget not because politicians or voters cannot work out what is going on, but because more than half the elected bloody representatives refuse to enact legislation that the electorate wants.
It wouldn't be such a clusterfxck if (for example) Patrick fxckMcloughlan actually voted in parliament in line with his constituents' desires.

Nobody knows what was voted for. At the time plenty of leavers were saying ‘leave doesn’t necessarily mean we leave the EEA and CU’. So I would say nobody knew what Brexit meant. Even a year after the vote nobody knew.

The negotiations have been botched beyond all belief by the most incompetent government in living memory. It’s embarrassing and their party is breaking apart.

However, whilst I disagree fundamentally on every level with Brexit I do have some sympathy with your view. The government doesn’t believe in Brexit and therefore won’t deliver it. I agree with May’s reasoning but she hasn’t had the balls to come out and say ‘this is for the best suck it up’. So it’s left to fester and everything she does is to save her political skin not for the good of us.

However when you have Brexiteer Raab saying he didn’t know how important the channel border was for trade - I think you basically sum up that nobody involved in proposing or supporting Brexit had the slightest handle on the complexities involved. Let alone the ‘man on the street’. In fact listening to various phone in’s it’s quite obvious that many who voted didn’t understand the basics of how international trade works now. Let alone how Brexit could impact on it.

What I put to you is, given the government can’t and won’t deliver anything to please anyone. And given Parliament is in gridlock. Is a second vote not the best chance of achieving what you want? Giving the government a clear mandate and instruction for a no deal Brexit? I see the risk for you is the vote goes the other way. But at least then the public could finally put this to bed.

I’ve not been in favour of another vote but now even if the opinions are ‘May’s deal’ or ‘No deal’ at least the public could give a verdict and hopefully end this horrendous charade forever.

You've "Put it to me".
I think the latest thread answers that.

Apologies. I’d not seen that thread. Only way this mess resolves itself. Might as well make half the people happy rather than leave everyone disgruntled and angry.

[Enoch]

It's a bit like losing a football match to a deflection in the 94th minute and demanding a rematch because there wasn't much to choose between the two sides and anyway a couple of our best players were injured and the ref made a few bad decisions and the grass was too long and blah f*cking blah....

It was a simple question, in or out. Most said out so come out and get on with what you can do instead of keep bleating on about what you can't do.

F*cking half empty types, like a stone round your neck.

[BWFC_Insane]

It's a bit like losing a football match to a deflection in the 94th minute and demanding a rematch because there wasn't much to choose between the two sides and anyway a couple of our best players were injured and the ref made a few bad decisions and the grass was too long and blah f*cking blah....

It was a simple question, in or out. Most said out so come out and get on with what you can do instead of keep bleating on about what you can't do.

F*cking half empty types, like a stone round your neck.

Except it’s absolutely nothing like that. Leavers aren’t happy with the proposed deal and neither are remainers. And parliament are split 3 or 4 ways so potentially no deal can survive.

This isn’t about winning and losing. Currently everyone is losing.

[Enoch]

You're not half empty, you've got a f*cking hole in the bottom.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Labour! The political party I've spent most of my life voting for! What the fxck has gone wrong with them?
I've just learnt, and this isn't a joke, that Labour MP Jess Phillips has demanded that schools teach girls about orgasm..This would "break down the power imbalance between men and women".
Right. Yup... I learnt all about the power imbalance when I first had an orgasm (untaught by teachers, parents, or any other fxcker). If girlys need to be 'taught' about 'orgasms' maybe they aren't actually capable of having them... Mine were pretty spontaneous, natural, there in the moment sort of experiences. It wasn't quite the same as 7x7=49... So what does 5x66 equal...

[TANGODANCER]

Labour! The political party I've spent most of my life voting for! What the fxck has gone wrong with them? I've just learnt, and this isn't a joke, that Labour MP Jess Phillips has demanded that schools teach girls about orgasm..

And this is a member of Parliament? Who the xxxx does she think she is? Best get used to it Spots, we live in a world we no longer understand. Wonder how this person, er creature would have gone on with "Nitty Nora" and the "Cough" doctor in primary schools? Orgams? a lad in the senior class (14 year olds) at our school got a right caning for having a line drawing of a pair of bazooms in his possession and the Catholic Church banned Johnny Ray's pop record "Such a night" because it was "suggestive".. Orgasms! just saying the word was sinful, and there was no way I'd have used it at home. Childhood should be a time of innocence and enjoyment, not saving up spends for a week end in Amsterdam. They grow up soon enough, too soon in lots of cases.

[Prufrock]

She's literally a lawmaker. As a job. And sex education is massively important. I doubt she's on about teaching it to 7 year olds. Sex is massively confusing and never off the brain of teenagers. I wish we'd had more proper talks about it when I was a teenager.

[TANGODANCER]

She's literally a lawmaker. As a job. And sex education is massively important. I doubt she's on about teaching it to 7 year olds. Sex is massively confusing and never off the brain of teenagers. I wish we'd had more proper talks about it when I was a teenager.

After having read her history I just laughed and passed on. St Georgina, the champion of the female cause.(If they actually need one since we have a queen, a female P.M and in my own case, a wife, three grown daughters and four female grand children.) The good lady herself has no teenage daughters to worry about, she may not be quite so vociferous possibly on the topic if she had. If sex and female orgasms is her focus as an M.P, little wonder politics are so screwed up. Kids are more in need of parental guidance on right and wrong than sex education in the orgasm sense, like not getting pregnant and taking precautions until they are actually old enough and stable enough to support children. Sex is a part of life, not a way of it and parental guidance is the massively important aspect in it all.. She's hardly setting a great example in that, is she?

[Enoch]

And sex education is massively important.

I never got any! Where do I get my claim form?

[Montreal Wanderer]

Labour! The political party I've spent most of my life voting for! What the fxck has gone wrong with them? I've just learnt, and this isn't a joke, that Labour MP Jess Phillips has demanded that schools teach girls about orgasm..

And this is a member of Parliament? Who the xxxx does she think she is? Best get used to it Spots, we live in a world we no longer understand. Wonder how this person, er creature would have gone on with "Nitty Nora" and the "Cough" doctor in primary schools? Orgams? a lad in the senior class (14 year olds) at our school got a right caning for having a line drawing of a pair of bazooms in his possession and the Catholic Church banned Johnny Ray's pop record "Such a night" because it was "suggestive".. Orgasms! just saying the word was sinful, and there was no way I'd have used it at home. Childhood should be a time of innocence and enjoyment, not saving up spends for a week end in Amsterdam. They grow up soon enough, too soon in lots of cases.

Over 60 years ago I looked up the word 'masturbation' in my one-volume Oxford dictionary. The definition was 'Bodily self-pollution' which didn't leave me much wiser.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Labour! The political party I've spent most of my life voting for! What the fxck has gone wrong with them? I've just learnt, and this isn't a joke, that Labour MP Jess Phillips has demanded that schools teach girls about orgasm..

And this is a member of Parliament? Who the xxxx does she think she is? Best get used to it Spots, we live in a world we no longer understand. Wonder how this person, er creature would have gone on with "Nitty Nora" and the "Cough" doctor in primary schools? Orgams? a lad in the senior class (14 year olds) at our school got a right caning for having a line drawing of a pair of bazooms in his possession and the Catholic Church banned Johnny Ray's pop record "Such a night" because it was "suggestive".. Orgasms! just saying the word was sinful, and there was no way I'd have used it at home. Childhood should be a time of innocence and enjoyment, not saving up spends for a week end in Amsterdam. They grow up soon enough, too soon in lots of cases.

Over 60 years ago I looked up the word 'masturbation' in my one-volume Oxford dictionary. The definition was 'Bodily self-pollution' which didn't leave me much wiser.

There's the problem right there Monty, because Masturbation is bodily self pollution. The word you should have looked up was wank! Even Onanism would have provided more enlightenment....

[Hoboh]

I am absolutely not having this crap that 'the man in the street' cannot understand politics. Bullshit.
Two things:
1. Europe is shitting itself at the prospect of losing our contribution to its budget - hence the artificial importance of the Irish backstop/border bullshit.
If we walked out with a True No Deal, the Irish backstop/border issue would be so subsumed in other issues it would be meaningless.
2. They weren't 'All Lies'. The figures themselves still are relevant.Indeed May has even signed up to provide the "NHS Supplement" no matter what.
But, more importantly, we're leaving but not leaving and therefore still paying into the monstrous European budget not because politicians or voters cannot work out what is going on, but because more than half the elected bloody representatives refuse to enact legislation that the electorate wants.
It wouldn't be such a clusterfxck if (for example) Patrick fxckMcloughlan actually voted in parliament in line with his constituents' desires.

Nobody knows what was voted for. At the time plenty of leavers were saying ‘leave doesn’t necessarily mean we leave the EEA and CU’. So I would say nobody knew what Brexit meant. Even a year after the vote nobody knew.

The negotiations have been botched beyond all belief by the most incompetent government in living memory. It’s embarrassing and their party is breaking apart.

However, whilst I disagree fundamentally on every level with Brexit I do have some sympathy with your view. The government doesn’t believe in Brexit and therefore won’t deliver it. I agree with May’s reasoning but she hasn’t had the balls to come out and say ‘this is for the best suck it up’. So it’s left to fester and everything she does is to save her political skin not for the good of us.

However when you have Brexiteer Raab saying he didn’t know how important the channel border was for trade - I think you basically sum up that nobody involved in proposing or supporting Brexit had the slightest handle on the complexities involved. Let alone the ‘man on the street’. In fact listening to various phone in’s it’s quite obvious that many who voted didn’t understand the basics of how international trade works now. Let alone how Brexit could impact on it.

What I put to you is, given the government can’t and won’t deliver anything to please anyone. And given Parliament is in gridlock. Is a second vote not the best chance of achieving what you want? Giving the government a clear mandate and instruction for a no deal Brexit? I see the risk for you is the vote goes the other way. But at least then the public could finally put this to bed.

I’ve not been in favour of another vote but now even if the opinions are ‘May’s deal’ or ‘No deal’ at least the public could give a verdict and hopefully end this horrendous charade forever.

I know exactly what I voted for, a non federal independent country, like most others. Not a country dictated to by an appointed drunk!

[Enoch]

I know exactly what I voted for, a non federal independent country, like most others.

The half empties will never accept it.

[BWFC_Insane]

I know exactly what I voted for, a non federal independent country, like most others.

The half empties will never accept it.

Yes you are right. Everyone knew exactly what version of Brexit they were voting for and understood the full implications. That's why everyone was very well prepared for the negotiations, no Brexiteer predicted we'd have the full trade agreement done in 12 months, and everyone was full warned about the risks presented to trade and the Irish border.....oh.....

People voted for something they didn't understand because they swallowed some nonsense about sovereignty oh and blue passports. Meanwhile the very basic "withdrawal agreement" the thing we were told would take a matter of months at absolute worst, by many brexiteers and then we'd stitch the EU up with a trade deal within a year is STILL not resolved.

It is very easy to find a selection of Brexit voters who all misunderstood what they voted for. Simply because there was no clarity.

And to claim that there was a single definition by using a definition that is meaningless, as Hoboh has, really highlights this.

We already were a non federal independent country. That is an absolute fact. Clearly he doesn't even understand that.

[Hoboh]

I know exactly what I voted for, a non federal independent country, like most others.

The half empties will never accept it.

Yes you are right. Everyone knew exactly what version of Brexit they were voting for and understood the full implications. That's why everyone was very well prepared for the negotiations, no Brexiteer predicted we'd have the full trade agreement done in 12 months, and everyone was full warned about the risks presented to trade and the Irish border.....oh.....

People voted for something they didn't understand because they swallowed some nonsense about sovereignty oh and blue passports. Meanwhile the very basic "withdrawal agreement" the thing we were told would take a matter of months at absolute worst, by many brexiteers and then we'd stitch the EU up with a trade deal within a year is STILL not resolved.

It is very easy to find a selection of Brexit voters who all misunderstood what they voted for. Simply because there was no clarity.

And to claim that there was a single definition by using a definition that is meaningless, as Hoboh has, really highlights this.

We already were a non federal independent country. That is an absolute fact. Clearly he doesn't even understand that.

I know you are not an idiot so stop acting like one, independent? You mean like the calls going out for a EU army? Bang goes your independence there matey. All the calls from the appointees and little Napoleon are for ever closer ties, the EU central bank is talking about setting universal interest rates, VAT and tax rates, all points you chose to overlook and you call me simplistic? Sounds very much like the pathway to federalism to me.

[Prufrock]

What do you think federalism means?

[Prufrock]

Anyway, it's all fine now.

[BWFC_Insane]

I know exactly what I voted for, a non federal independent country, like most others.

The half empties will never accept it.

Yes you are right. Everyone knew exactly what version of Brexit they were voting for and understood the full implications. That's why everyone was very well prepared for the negotiations, no Brexiteer predicted we'd have the full trade agreement done in 12 months, and everyone was full warned about the risks presented to trade and the Irish border.....oh.....

People voted for something they didn't understand because they swallowed some nonsense about sovereignty oh and blue passports. Meanwhile the very basic "withdrawal agreement" the thing we were told would take a matter of months at absolute worst, by many brexiteers and then we'd stitch the EU up with a trade deal within a year is STILL not resolved.

It is very easy to find a selection of Brexit voters who all misunderstood what they voted for. Simply because there was no clarity.

And to claim that there was a single definition by using a definition that is meaningless, as Hoboh has, really highlights this.

We already were a non federal independent country. That is an absolute fact. Clearly he doesn't even understand that.

I know you are not an idiot so stop acting like one, independent? You mean like the calls going out for a EU army? Bang goes your independence there matey. All the calls from the appointees and little Napoleon are for ever closer ties, the EU central bank is talking about setting universal interest rates, VAT and tax rates, all points you chose to overlook and you call me simplistic? Sounds very much like the pathway to federalism to me.

Calls for. Which means those things weren't actually happening. "Pathway to federalism". Again some people might have wanted that.

Anyhow, are you happy with "the deal"?

[Hoboh]

deal?

At least appeaser May will end up jobless and even less significant, if that is at all possible.

You should be happy mate your Marxist chums might well get in, I suppose the one saving grace is they won't want to be tied to the EU because it will interfere with their interventionist polices like nationalisation.