European Second Referendum

[Prufrock]

It was supposed to be a warning against totalitarianism.

[Hoboh]

It was supposed to be a warning against totalitarianism.

Obviously you didn't read it or you wouldn't be so quick to sell your soul to the EU masters, totalitarianism under a different guise.

Have a cake Pru.

[Hoboh]

More than a dozen rebel MPs who helped Theresa May pass her plan and see off an attempt to delay the UK's departure date were branded a 'disgrace'.

Furious Remain-backing colleagues accused them of 'riding to the rescue' of the PM by propping up her Brexit policy. There were even calls from some Corbyn allies for veteran left-wingers including Dennis Skinner to be deselected.

I'm sure Dennis will be very worried about this

Suck it up remainers you ain't got the masses you claim you had behind you.

Anyone seen democratic Gina?

[Prufrock]

It was supposed to be a warning against totalitarianism.

Obviously you didn't read it or you wouldn't be so quick to sell your soul to the EU masters, totalitarianism under a different guise.

Have a cake Pru.

I have read it, that's why I know it's anti-totalitarian.

The EU is not perfect but to call it "totalitarian" is embarrassing hyperbole of the kind you decry why is remainers saying the world will end if we leave. And a bit of a kick to anyone who ever actually lived under totalitarianism. The USSR didn't have many referendums on leaving.

Also odd for you to start throwing in references to books written by self-proclaimed (dirty word alert) "socialists"

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Moaists! Stalinists! Leninists! Bakuninists! Trotskyists! Jong-Unists! Marxists! Molotovists!

Nobody's got a good word to say for them. Except Orwell, who warned us against them, by warning us against them, (whilst not actually making a reasoned argument for Socialism. Wonderful how the human mind works).

Orwellism, I'm all for it.

*barf*

"The passion for destruction is also a creative passion".... Barf barf barf...

[Enoch]

Of course I intended it primarily as a satire on the Russian revolution. But I did mean it to have a wider application in so much that I meant that that kind of revolution (violent conspiratorial revolution, led by unconsciously power-hungry people) can only lead to a change of masters. I meant the moral to be that revolutions only effect a radical improvement when the masses are alert and know how to chuck out their leaders as soon as the latter have done their job.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Of course I intended it primarily as a satire on the Russian revolution. But I did mean it to have a wider application in so much that I meant that that kind of revolution (violent conspiratorial revolution, led by unconsciously power-hungry people) can only lead to a change of masters. I meant the moral to be that revolutions only effect a radical improvement when the masses are alert and know how to chuck out their leaders as soon as the latter have done their job.

There's a wonderful parody where all the dead winners of every award over the last century get together in heaven for a celebratory meal, and none of them can agree to a seating arrangement.

[Hoboh]

It was supposed to be a warning against totalitarianism.

Obviously you didn't read it or you wouldn't be so quick to sell your soul to the EU masters, totalitarianism under a different guise.

Have a cake Pru.

I have read it, that's why I know it's anti-totalitarian.

The EU is not perfect but to call it "totalitarian" is embarrassing hyperbole of the kind you decry why is remainers saying the world will end if we leave. And a bit of a kick to anyone who ever actually lived under totalitarianism. The USSR didn't have many referendums on leaving.

Also odd for you to start throwing in references to books written by self-proclaimed (dirty word alert) "socialists"

No difference to the old monarchy or the new money elite or globalist well meaners.
Actually I like Orwell a lot.

Another cake Pru?

[Hoboh]

Lost the referendum, lost the delay tactical votes in Parliament the Gina Millers of this world wanted for 'democracy', just when are remainers going to stop foot stamping? like their masters in the EU it's only democracy when they win, they are beginning to look like little school girls screaming until someone takes notice.
Oh I forgot to add, those remainiacs outside of parliament everyday, do they actually do any work?

[BWFC_Insane]

Lost the referendum, lost the delay tactical votes in Parliament the Gina Millers of this world wanted for 'democracy', just when are remainers going to stop foot stamping? like their masters in the EU it's only democracy when they win, they are beginning to look like little school girls screaming until someone takes notice.
Oh I forgot to add, those remainiacs outside of parliament everyday, do they actually do any work?

Its not a war. People just want to avoid a disastrous no deal now. And the Commons has demonstrated there is a clear majority to stop that from happening. So if May hasn't reached an acceptable deal when she brings her motion back then Yvette Cooper's amendment will likely pass. But the point of it is to ensure we don't just crash out.

[Hoboh]

Lost the referendum, lost the delay tactical votes in Parliament the Gina Millers of this world wanted for 'democracy', just when are remainers going to stop foot stamping? like their masters in the EU it's only democracy when they win, they are beginning to look like little school girls screaming until someone takes notice.
Oh I forgot to add, those remainiacs outside of parliament everyday, do they actually do any work?

Its not a war. People just want to avoid a disastrous no deal now. And the Commons has demonstrated there is a clear majority to stop that from happening. So if May hasn't reached an acceptable deal when she brings her motion back then Yvette Cooper's amendment will likely pass. But the point of it is to ensure we don't just crash out.

Clear majority? wasn't it 8? in that case there was a huge majority voted to leave in the referendum!

But the point of it is to ensure we don't just crash out.

Rubbish you just want to remain and as for 'ruling out no deal' other than that in effect meaning remain by default, who the hell shows their hand in a game of poker? The EU are doing a decent job of toeing the line at the moment although Barnier was looking a little uncomfortable in a few interviews yesterday. Apparently 1 million German jobs may go under no deal, I'm sure they object to some tinkering with the backstop.

[BWFC_Insane]

Lost the referendum, lost the delay tactical votes in Parliament the Gina Millers of this world wanted for 'democracy', just when are remainers going to stop foot stamping? like their masters in the EU it's only democracy when they win, they are beginning to look like little school girls screaming until someone takes notice.
Oh I forgot to add, those remainiacs outside of parliament everyday, do they actually do any work?

Its not a war. People just want to avoid a disastrous no deal now. And the Commons has demonstrated there is a clear majority to stop that from happening. So if May hasn't reached an acceptable deal when she brings her motion back then Yvette Cooper's amendment will likely pass. But the point of it is to ensure we don't just crash out.

Clear majority? wasn't it 8? in that case there was a huge majority voted to leave in the referendum!

But the point of it is to ensure we don't just crash out.

Rubbish you just want to remain and as for 'ruling out no deal' other than that in effect meaning remain by default, who the hell shows their hand in a game of poker? The EU are doing a decent job of toeing the line at the moment although Barnier was looking a little uncomfortable in a few interviews yesterday. Apparently 1 million German jobs may go under no deal, I'm sure they object to some tinkering with the backstop.

I want to remain. I think its clear many MPs do too. I also think its clear they are realising that there is not a majority for a clear path to remaining. Therefore I think they are working to protect the country from no deal.

May has already in secret told her cabinet that a no deal exit is off the table.

Parliament has had a vote that shows there is no majority for "no deal". IF there isn't a deal that can be signed up to then the majority view is that we delay until there is. You are going to have to accept that because it is clear that parliament wants a deal and will take steps to try and prevent no deal.

The idea that we can bluff the EU is ridiculous they know we are desperate for a deal. They know there is no political will here for no deal. Even the likes of Rees Mogg have admitted a deal is hugely preferable. I think the genuinely would push for no deal MPs number less than 30 now.

And before you kick off, I want to stay. I think leaving is a disaster. But I also realise that in the real world staying isn't a viable option anymore. So we need to get a deal and leave. And I don't think a long delay helps anyone. But the chances of doing what is required by the end of March are getting slimmer by the day. Remember the initial deadline for 21st January for withdrawal agreement to be approved by Parliament was set to allow just enough time to pass the remaining pieces of legistlation necessary through the commons. At the time the 21st was considered the "absolutely latest date where there was time left to pass the legislation". We know are in the last day of January and who knows when a withdrawal agreement bill will pass?

[Enoch]

May has already in secret told her cabinet that a no deal exit is off the table.

.
Nice of her to copy you in.

[BWFC_Insane]

May has already in secret told her cabinet that a no deal exit is off the table.

.
Nice of her to copy you in.

She made sure it leaked into the national press.....I didn't need a cc.....

[Hoboh]

Invoking article 50 meant leaving the EU, deal or no deal, the vast majority of MP's voted for this.
I want a deal, I would accept Mays deal with tweaks just so long as we are outside of EU interfering and not paying a fortune towards their federalist wet dreams.

[BWFC_Insane]

Invoking article 50 meant leaving the EU, deal or no deal, the vast majority of MP's voted for this.
I want a deal, I would accept Mays deal with tweaks just so long as we are outside of EU interfering and not paying a fortune towards their federalist wet dreams.

But its clear that no deal is a disaster for just about everybody. Only a tiny, tiny percentage of MPs would accept it. So we can delay A50 if we need to in order to secure a deal. I don't think May's deal is very good but like you say I think with some tweaks is where we land. And its better than the frightening no deal. I fervently believe what we have is the best deal possible and we'll regret this. And I'll happily say "I told you so" in the future. But right now I think there needs to be political compromise to avoid a no deal scenario and as much as I think it stinks, I'd hold my nose - if she can get the changes required (and a statement that reflects a very close FTA following transition) and accept it.

[Hoboh]

The whole point is no deal cannot come off the table otherwise remain is the default option and that flys in the face of the referendum result.
Removing no deal is a ploy by remainiacs to do exactly that, remain.
May and her cronies Ballsed up the deal and I am ecstatic she will soon be gone, one of the worst PM's ever but to be fair to her remainiacs have hampered negotiations all along with their petulant foot stamping all through, they don't like not getting their own way or no.
No deal will not happen neither we nor the EU want that in reality, having said that now is not the point we throw in the towel.

[BWFC_Insane]

The whole point is no deal cannot come off the table otherwise remain is the default option and that flys in the face of the referendum result.
Removing no deal is a ploy by remainiacs to do exactly that, remain.
May and her cronies Ballsed up the deal and I am ecstatic she will soon be gone, one of the worst PM's ever but to be fair to her remainiacs have hampered negotiations all along with their petulant foot stamping all through, they don't like not getting their own way or no.
No deal will not happen neither we nor the EU want that in reality, having said that now is not the point we throw in the towel.

In effect no deal was confirmed to be a non-option after the Spelman amendment won the day.

[BWFC_Insane]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFVxVeujxIQ

Hadn't seen this before. But this 100%. Its hard to find someone who speaks the moderate truth. Thanks James. I will listen to your show from now on.

[Hoboh]

The whole point is no deal cannot come off the table otherwise remain is the default option and that flys in the face of the referendum result.
Removing no deal is a ploy by remainiacs to do exactly that, remain.
May and her cronies Ballsed up the deal and I am ecstatic she will soon be gone, one of the worst PM's ever but to be fair to her remainiacs have hampered negotiations all along with their petulant foot stamping all through, they don't like not getting their own way or no.
No deal will not happen neither we nor the EU want that in reality, having said that now is not the point we throw in the towel.

In effect no deal was confirmed to be a non-option after the Spelman amendment won the day.

You referring to a non binding amendment?
That's straw clutching a touch.