Ken Anderson - Old Owner (Definitely. For Ever ..... )

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Ormsons farm is at the end of my street!

I'm sure it's been empty for the best part of a year but I'm nipping up asking to borrow a cup of sugar later!

[Lost Leopard Spot]

https://suite.endole.co.uk/insight/comp ... ldings-ltd

Right...

Clicking a few links there reveals that the only quoted director's only previous listed company was a "financial management" company "dissolved via compulsory strike-off".

According to other records from that company (https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/comp ... ng-history), Ms Khilji is a South African born in December 1981. Intriguingly but QUITE PROBABLY UNRELATEDLY (I shout this for the benefit of any lurking lawyers), the service address in that previous company was used by tens of thousands of companies for not always entirely positive reasons:
https://financefeeds.com/85-year-old-wo ... s-exposed/

Perhaps interestingly, the new company – address listed as a stone's throw from our stadium - has its "nature of business" listed as "Activities of real estate investment trusts".
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/11837653

Almost certainly interestingly, Ken mentioned a (Mr) Shilji before:
https://www.bwfc.co.uk/news/2017/august ... chairman7/

For the record, over the last couple of weeks Paul Aldridge has received several propositions through local councillor Cllr John Walsh and Alan Walsh on behalf of Mr Shabbir Khilji, a local businessman. Unfortunately, at no time has Mr Khilji been able to provide proof of his funds which would be acceptable to the EFL or myself. Indeed, having failed to produce any evidence of his funds, and at the eleventh hour last week, another person was introduced as having joined 'the consortium'. However, it was impossible to try and agree or finalise anything as there was still no evidence of sufficient available funds, despite numerous assurances that it would be provided.

But most interesting of all is the name "Gaspard". I've heard this before. I'm digging into it, when I can (this isn't my job).

The name Gaspard is a Spanish baby name. In Spanish the meaning of the name Gaspard is: Treasure.

[bristol_Wanderer3]

I'll just say this. Ken stands to make a lot more from liquidation than any other outcome. It would not surprise me at all to see the motion go uncontested tomorrow and we be given a winding up order.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

I'll just say this. Ken stands to make a lot more from liquidation than any other outcome. It would not surprise me at all to see the motion go uncontested tomorrow and we be given a winding up order.

And I'll state, once again, that that may well be an outcome in a few weeks time, but the EFL will be pressing behind the scenes for that Not to happen within the playing season. I reckon the EFL will have more influence on the judge than HMRC (purely because it makes no fxcking discernible difference to HMRC whether we get wound up in April or May).

[officer_dibble]

Liquidation, whilst not administration, will likely result in points deducted from next season? Ken’s legacy will continue...

[bristol_Wanderer3]

I'll just say this. Ken stands to make a lot more from liquidation than any other outcome. It would not surprise me at all to see the motion go uncontested tomorrow and we be given a winding up order.

And I'll state, once again, that that may well be an outcome in a few weeks time, but the EFL will be pressing behind the scenes for that Not to happen within the playing season. I reckon the EFL will have more influence on the judge than HMRC (purely because it makes no fxcking discernible difference to HMRC whether we get wound up in April or May).

Will the EFL be represented? If we don't commission Hilary Stonefrost then the motion will just go uncontested right?

[bristol_Wanderer3]

Liquidation, whilst not administration, will likely result in points deducted from next season? Ken’s legacy will continue...

I think we will have a few days after the winding up order is issued before the "event", appointment of an official receiver(?), is triggered for the points deduction to kick in under EFL rules?

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

From what I understand of it, liquidation isn't like administration, and it may be very dangerous to confuse the two. Dangerous on here; potentially fatal (for the club) if it's being done by the owner.

Again, from what understand of it, in layman's terms administration seeks to make the best of a bad job - refunding (in part) where possible, finding new owners, attempting to reset the business on a sure footing. Liquidation is last-rites, will-splitting stuff: who gets the flying ducks, who gets the Charles & Di teapot, who pays for the casket.

If we - and I use the word "we" at the furthest possible personal remove from our chairman – are using liquidation as a time-buyer, hoping it takes a week to organise the funeral, it's so incredibly dodgy as to bring pre-emptive tears to the eyes.

I completely and utterly understand well-meaning Watford fans warning us against Bassini. He may well be a disastrous new dad. But at the minute, it feels like our current daddy's turning off the life-support just to hear the beep and the sound of running nurses.

[officer_dibble]

I’m not confusing the two - merely making the point that I think EFL rules cover administration, not liquidation.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

I’m not confusing the two - merely making the point that I think EFL rules cover administration, not liquidation.

Fair enough, wasn't having a go Dibs. Will have a look at the rules

[bristol_Wanderer3]

From what I understand of it, liquidation isn't like administration, and it may be very dangerous to confuse the two. Dangerous on here; potentially fatal (for the club) if it's being done by the owner.

Again, from what understand of it, in layman's terms administration seeks to make the best of a bad job - refunding (in part) where possible, finding new owners, attempting to reset the business on a sure footing. Liquidation is last-rites, will-splitting stuff: who gets the flying ducks, who gets the Charles & Di teapot, who pays for the casket.

If we - and I use the word "we" at the furthest possible personal remove from our chairman – are using liquidation as a time-buyer, hoping it takes a week to organise the funeral, it's so incredibly dodgy as to bring pre-emptive tears to the eyes.

I completely and utterly understand well-meaning Watford fans warning us against Bassini. He may well be a disastrous new dad. But at the minute, it feels like our current daddy's turning off the life-support just to hear the beep and the sound of running nurses.

Absolutely. Liquidation = closing down, no more company, no more BWFC, no nothing. The receivers are called in and the assets are sold off. There would still be around a week to do "something" though, such as sell the club to a bidder who has the ready money, if a winding up order is issued tomorrow.

Most seem to believe an adjournment is likely. I don't see it personally, I think Ken gains massively by liquidating, and even if we don't get liquidated he puts massive time pressure on would be buyers to overpay, or at least to agree to terms that involve not looking to closely at the books, but I really, really want to be wrong. I wonder if Hilary is warming up?

[TonyDomingos]

I’m not confusing the two - merely making the point that I think EFL rules cover administration, not liquidation.

There's no point in the rules covering liquidation as there is no club from which to deduct points.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Take a deep breath, kids, we're going in. I've edited for (relative) brevity to excise irrelevance (eg teams relegated from Premier, promoted from National etc).


Meaning of terms
https://www.efl.com/-more/governance/ef ... --general/

‘Insolvency Act’ means the Insolvency Act 1986 and any statutory modification or re-enactment thereof for the time being in force.

‘Insolvency Event’ refers to any one of the following:

a) entering into a Company Voluntary Arrangement pursuant to Part 1 of the Insolvency Act, a Scheme of Arrangement with creditors under Part 26 of the 2006 Act, or any compromise agreement with its creditors as a whole;

b) the lodging of a Notice of Intention to Appoint an Administrator or Notice of Appointment of an Administrator at the Court in accordance with paragraph 26 or paragraph 29 of Schedule B1 to the Insolvency Act, an application to the Court for an Administration Order under paragraph 12 of Schedule B1 to the Insolvency Act (other than paragraph 12(1)(c)) or where an Administrator is appointed or an Administration Order is made (‘Administrator’ and ‘Administration Order’ having the meanings attributed to them respectively by paragraphs 1 and 10 of Schedule B1 to the Insolvency Act);

c) an Administrative Receiver (as defined by section 251 of the Insolvency Act), a Law of Property Act Receiver (appointed under section 109 of the Law of Property Act 1925) or any Receiver appointed by the Court under the Supreme Court Act 1981 or any other Receiver is appointed over any assets which, in the opinion of the Board is material to the Club’s ability to fulfil its obligations as a Member Club;

d) shareholders passing a resolution pursuant to section 84(1) of the Insolvency Act to voluntarily wind up;

e) a meeting of creditors is convened pursuant to section 95 or section 98 of the Insolvency Act;

f) a winding up order is made by the Court under section 122 of the Insolvency Act or a provisional liquidator is appointed under section 135 of the Insolvency Act;

g) ceasing or forming an intention to cease wholly or substantially to carry on business save for the purpose of reconstruction or amalgamation or otherwise in accordance with a scheme of proposals which have previously been submitted to and approved in writing by the Board;

h) being subject to any insolvency regime in any jurisdiction outside England and Wales which is analogous to the insolvency regimes detailed in paragraphs (a) to (g) above; and/or

i) have any proceeding or step taken or any court order in any jurisdiction made which has a substantially similar effect to any of the foregoing.

The meat
This is the really relevant section to our situation.
https://www.efl.com/-more/governance/ef ... he-league/

12.3
Sporting Sanctions

Introduction

The following Regulation provides for how sporting sanctions will be applied to Clubs when the Club, or any Group Undertaking, becomes subject to or suffers an Insolvency Event, and also makes provision for an appeals mechanism, but only on the grounds of ‘Force Majeure’.
By way of clarification the following are identified as circumstances which it is intended would be embraced under the category of ‘Force Majeure’. It is intended that this appeals process should be limited to circumstances which are deemed unforeseeable and unavoidable. In all these examples, each case would have to be considered on its own merits:
Club Income: In the event that a club suffers material adverse effects upon the loss of anticipated income streams which mean that it is unable to meet its liabilities as and when they fall due. This could only be grounds for appeal, however, if the loss occurs during the currency of a binding agreement (i.e. not upon expiry).
Default by another Club: In : circumstances where an insolvency event is caused by the default of another football club. Once again, however, for this to constitute legitimate grounds for appeal, the outstanding payments must be significant enough to have had a material and adverse effect upon the Club.

12.3.1
If any Club becomes subject to or suffers an Insolvency Event, that Club shall be deducted 12 points.

12.3.2
If a Group Undertaking of a Club becomes subject to or suffers an Insolvency Event, then the Board shall have the power to impose upon the Club a deduction of 12 points scored or to be scored in the League Competition. In exercising this power the Board shall have regard to all the circumstances of the case and to:
a) such of the provisions of the Insolvency Act, the Competition Act 1998 and the Enterprise Act 2002 as are relevant and then in force;
b) the need to protect the integrity and continuity of the League Competition;
c) the reputation of The League and the need to promote the game of association football generally; and
d) the relationship between the Club and the Group Undertaking.

12.3.3
Subject to the provisions of Regulation 12.3.4 below, where the Club becomes subject to or suffers an Insolvency Event, or the Board impose a deduction in accordance with Regulation 12.3.2:
a) during the Normal Playing Season but prior to 5.00pm on the fourth Thursday in March, the points deduction shall apply immediately;
b) during the Normal Playing Season but after 5.00pm on the fourth Thursday in March, Regulation 12.3.4 shall apply; and
c) outside the Normal Playing Season, the points deduction shall apply in respect of the following Season such that the Club starts that Season on minus 12 points (including in the National League if appropriate).

12.3.4
Where the circumstances set out in Regulation 12.3.3(b) apply and at the end of that Season, having regard to the number of championship points awarded (ignoring any potential deduction):
a) the Club would be relegated in accordance with Regulation 10.1.2(b) or 7.7, the points deduction will apply in the next following Season (including in the National League if appropriate); or
b) the Club would not be relegated as aforesaid, the points deduction will apply in that Season and Regulation 10.1.2(b) or 7.7 will then apply (if appropriate) following imposition of the points deduction.

12.3.5
For the avoidance of doubt, where a Club and/or Group Undertaking is subject to more than one of the procedures in Regulation 12.3.1 above during a process of compromising creditors (for example Administration followed by a Company Voluntary Arrangement), the Club shall only be deducted one set of 12 points, such deduction to apply with effect from the first Insolvency Event.

(...)

12.3.8
For the purpose of this Regulation 12.3:
a) where an Insolvency Event is taken or suffered other than on a Business Day (as defined by the Insolvency Rules 1986 as amended from time to time) then for the purposes of determining the timing of any points deduction only the Insolvency Event will be deemed to have occurred on the immediately preceding Business Day; and
b) if a Company Voluntary Arrangement is approved, then approval of that Company Voluntary Arrangement shall be deemed to have been given at the date of the first meeting of creditors called to consider that Company Voluntary Arrangement, and not the date of any adjourned meeting of creditors or the meeting of shareholders.

12.3.9
The League shall serve the Club with written notice of the points deduction (the ‘Notice’). Article 50 shall apply as to the timing of receipt of such Notice.

12.3.10
A Club may appeal:

• a) against a decision of the Board to impose a points deduction arising from an Insolvency Event of a Group Undertaking under Regulation 12.3.2; and/or
  b) against an automatic deduction of points imposed where a Club, Premier League club or National League Club suffers an Insolvency Event under Regulations 12.3.1, 12.3.6 or 12.3.7 respectively,

but only on the ground that the relevant Insolvency Event(s) arose solely as a result of a Force Majeure event (‘Sporting Sanctions Appeal’).

12.3.11
For the purposes of this Regulation 12.3, a ‘Force Majeure’ event shall be an event that, having regard to all of the circumstances, was caused by and resulted directly from circumstances, other than normal business risks, over which the Club and/or Group Undertaking (as the case may be) could not reasonably be expected to have control and its Officials had used all due diligence to avoid the happening of that event.

12.3.12
Any Sporting Sanctions Appeal must be in writing and be received by The League at its registered office no later than seven days after The League serves the Notice. The Sporting Sanctions Appeal must contain a statement setting out the grounds of appeal and provide copies of any documentation upon which the Club intends to rely in support of the Sporting Sanctions Appeal.

12.3.13
The Club must also lodge with The League, at the same time as the Sporting Sanctions Appeal, a deposit of £5,000 in respect of the costs of the Sporting Sanctions Appeal.

12.3.14
Upon receipt of the Sporting Sanctions Appeal The League shall refer the matter to the League Arbitration Panel in accordance with the provisions of Section 9 of these Regulations, supplemented by the provisions of this Regulation 12.3, and in the event of any conflict between Section 9 and this Regulation, this Regulation shall prevail.

12.3.15
The League shall, immediately upon receipt of the Sporting Sanctions Appeal, instruct a firm of independent accountants to carry out a review of the activities of the Club and/or any Group Undertaking for the purposes of preparing an independent report into the circumstances surrounding and leading up to the relevant Insolvency Event(s). The Club shall meet the costs of preparation of that report in any event. The report shall be provided to the Club, the League Arbitration Panel and The League. The League Arbitration Panel shall take into account the contents of that report when determining whether the insolvency proceedings arose solely as a result of a Force Majeure event.

12.3.16
The League Arbitration Panel shall hear any Sporting Sanctions Appeal within 21 days of the lodgement of the Sporting Sanctions Appeal.

12.3.17
The Club shall bear the burden of proof in relation to the matters set out in the Sporting Sanctions Appeal on the balance of probabilities.

12.3.18
The League Arbitration Panel shall have the power to:
a) confirm the deduction of 12 points; or
b) set aside the deduction of 12 points and substitute a deduction of such lower number of points as it shall deem appropriate; or
c) order that there shall be no sanction at all.

12.3.19
Any costs incurred by any party in proceedings brought before the League Arbitration Panel shall be met by the Club in any event and shall be considered as a sum due to The League for the purposes of Article 48.

FFP
I believe this is the only mention of "liquidation" anywhere in the EFL rules. Arm's-length. Like your aunt saying the word "lesbian".
https://www.efl.com/-more/governance/ef ... gulations/

2.4 The following items may be the subject of an application for treatment as a Permitted Exceptional Item under these Rules by a Championship Club:
(...)
2.4.5 Exceptional bad debts
(...)
2.5 By way of further illustration in the event a Championship Club suffers a material loss through, say, its major contracted sponsor being unable to fulfil its financial obligations under that contract or where a material bad debt arises through the liquidation of another football club both these items would be covered by 2.4.5 above.

[bristol_Wanderer3]

Yes not sure the EFL need so many rules around liquidation. General business considerations are perhaps the most relevant?

Once the Court has issued a winding up order there is nothing that can be done to stop the company from being completely liquidated. However, there is a short period of time during which you can take action to prevent the order from being issued. When a creditor or HMRC issues a winding up petition to the Court it is reviewed and if approved it is then issued to the insolvent company. After receiving the petition the insolvent company then has 7 days to do one of four things:

Pay all debts owed to the petitioner (whoever is petitioning to liquidate your company, whether it be HMRC or another creditor).

Arrange and propose a Company Voluntary Arrangement (CVA) to come to an agreement with the petitioner. Such an arrangement could allow you to repay the debt gradually over a period of up to 5 years, while also letting your company escape liquidation.

Obtain an Administration Order to have the company put into Administration, during which a licensed Insolvency practitioner would be appointed as an administrator to evaluate and sell some of the company’s assets. During a Court-order Administration all legal actions are stayed, which means the Court will not issue the winding up order against your company.

Dispute the debt. In order for this to be an option there has to be substantial proof that the debt Claim is unfair or inaccurate. This is a serious allegation against the creditor known as “abuse of court process.”

https://www.realbusinessrescue.co.uk/wi ... g-up-order

[Jim_McDonuts]

stopped reading at nailed on -12p deduction. Ouch

[Harry Genshaw]

I’m not confusing the two - merely making the point that I think EFL rules cover administration, not liquidation.

There's no point in the rules covering liquidation as there is no club from which to deduct points.

Meaning we start in North West Counties division two as AFC Bolton but with no points deduction?

[TonyDomingos]

I’m not confusing the two - merely making the point that I think EFL rules cover administration, not liquidation.

There's no point in the rules covering liquidation as there is no club from which to deduct points.

Meaning we start in North West Counties division two as AFC Bolton but with no points deduction?

It wouldn't be "we". It would be a different entity.

[Bruce Rioja]

Am I the only one finding this Howard thing on WW a bit weird now.
Been banging on for days that 4.30pm today was the big moment
Yesterday dripped out that 'somehow' Keneth's convinced the beak that because he was out at his mum's he didn't get the letter from the Bahraini royals' lawyers, so now can't do this share thing.

I mean, it just all sounds absolute bollocks and compounds the ongoing bloody lunacy.

Starting to wonder whether this Howard character is 1)ST & 2)Gaspard - in the immortal words of the inimitable Messr John Joseph Lydon, "ever get the feeling you've been had?"

"cheated", Jim. "Ever get the feeling you've been cheated"?

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Usual caveat with Nixon – I know not everybody thinks he's worth listening to...

Has Ken blinked?

[Bruce Rioja]

Bassini sorting his act out is far from positive news.