The Politics Thread

[Enoch]

At least our parliament hasn't come to this yet!

Can only be a matter of time.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Soubry gets 'jostled' and democracy is in crisis. Farage gets physically attacked and that's all ok.
There are some tendentious hypocrites out there.

[Prufrock]

"Physically attacked"? Lol. Behave.

You are right that there's hypocrisy all over the shop, though. Corbynites up on a arms when he got egged note trying to distinguish that from a milkshake.

Right wingers who played down Corbyn now up in arms.

Chief hypocrite being Farridge himself who claimed the referendum had been won "without a bullet being fired" now talking about 'radicalised' Remainers.

Egging and milkshakes is pathetic and shouldn't happen but all this pearl-clutching from folk who couldn't care less about the political murder of a sitting MP can frankly get on f*cked.

[jimbo]

It’s just really a sad reflection of where we are politically at the moment. How anyone can think that Threatening anyone, sending them abusive messages, joking about raping them, throwing milkshakes at people who have a different opinion from you is just ridiculous.

Political rhetoric seems to have become more divisive post referendum, which obviously isn’t going to help such matters. Also people exist in their own little echo chambers - I’ve not seen one person I follow on Twitter condemning the Farage incident. Instead it’s being applauded, mocked and celebrated which again fuels a situation where people think acts like this are somehow justified.

[Hoboh]

It’s just really a sad reflection of where we are politically at the moment. How anyone can think that Threatening anyone, sending them abusive messages, joking about raping them, throwing milkshakes at people who have a different opinion from you is just ridiculous.

Political rhetoric seems to have become more divisive post referendum, which obviously isn’t going to help such matters. Also people exist in their own little echo chambers - I’ve not seen one person I follow on Twitter condemning the Farage incident. Instead it’s being applauded, mocked and celebrated which again fuels a situation where people think acts like this are somehow justified.

Ah, you see most of this type of thing is carried out by the pious lefties who infest twitter and other media yet according to our resident Marxist the right are always causing problems with violence, I seem to remember this type of thing being justified by him. Actually I would justify shooting the fcukers carrying out these wanton acts, how long before some leftie moron throws an acid riddled 'milk shake'?

[jimbo]

It’s just really a sad reflection of where we are politically at the moment. How anyone can think that Threatening anyone, sending them abusive messages, joking about raping them, throwing milkshakes at people who have a different opinion from you is just ridiculous.

Political rhetoric seems to have become more divisive post referendum, which obviously isn’t going to help such matters. Also people exist in their own little echo chambers - I’ve not seen one person I follow on Twitter condemning the Farage incident. Instead it’s being applauded, mocked and celebrated which again fuels a situation where people think acts like this are somehow justified.

Ah, you see most of this type of thing is carried out by the pious lefties who infest twitter and other media yet according to our resident Marxist the right are always causing problems with violence, I seem to remember this type of thing being justified by him. Actually I would justify shooting the fcukers carrying out these wanton acts, how long before some leftie moron throws an acid riddled 'milk shake'?

To be fair I’ve seen more condemnation and sensible reaction today.

Your comment just reads like a big conspiracy theory really, making an enormous generalisation and ignoring the swathes of far right material on social media. My point was how people surrounding themselves with the thoughts of similar thinking people can normalise such behaviour, and that’s an issue left and right.

As for the last line, a suitable retort could be ‘how long since a right wing moron shoots and stabs a left wing MP in the street?’.

[BWFC_Insane]

It’s just really a sad reflection of where we are politically at the moment. How anyone can think that Threatening anyone, sending them abusive messages, joking about raping them, throwing milkshakes at people who have a different opinion from you is just ridiculous.

Political rhetoric seems to have become more divisive post referendum, which obviously isn’t going to help such matters. Also people exist in their own little echo chambers - I’ve not seen one person I follow on Twitter condemning the Farage incident. Instead it’s being applauded, mocked and celebrated which again fuels a situation where people think acts like this are somehow justified.

Ah, you see most of this type of thing is carried out by the pious lefties who infest twitter and other media yet according to our resident Marxist the right are always causing problems with violence, I seem to remember this type of thing being justified by him. Actually I would justify shooting the fcukers carrying out these wanton acts, how long before some leftie moron throws an acid riddled 'milk shake'?

To be fair I’ve seen more condemnation and sensible reaction today.

Your comment just reads like a big conspiracy theory really, making an enormous generalisation and ignoring the swathes of far right material on social media. My point was how people surrounding themselves with the thoughts of similar thinking people can normalise such behaviour, and that’s an issue left and right.

As for the last line, a suitable retort could be ‘how long since a right wing moron shoots and stabs a left wing MP in the street?’.

Not in the street - but that has already happened.....

[Prufrock]

It was in the street wasn't it (and I think that's the point jimbo is making)?

[BWFC_Insane]

It was in the street wasn't it (and I think that's the point jimbo is making)?

You know what, you are right. I thought it was inside....

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Lest we forget. This shit ain't new...

inejiro-asanuma-assassination.jpg (48.88 KiB) Viewed 1821 times

[Lost Leopard Spot]

One day a milk shake. Next day a sword.

[BWFC_Insane]

One day a milk shake. Next day a sword.

We've already had an MP shot dead...so.....

And I'm unconvinced that throwing a milkshake escalates into anything else automatically....

[Lost Leopard Spot]

One day a milk shake. Next day a sword.

We've already had an MP shot dead...so.....

And I'm unconvinced that throwing a milkshake escalates into anything else automatically....

That's because you're a tendentious hypocrite.
And thus the circle is completed.

[BWFC_Insane]

One day a milk shake. Next day a sword.

We've already had an MP shot dead...so.....

And I'm unconvinced that throwing a milkshake escalates into anything else automatically....

That's because you're a tendentious hypocrite.
And thus the circle is completed.

I personally would rather people had not thrown anything in this instance. It only offers the vile what they want.

But I find it a little ironic that Brexiteers are up in arms about a milkshake - when they have, oft talked of violence (whether in jest or not) and one has committed murder.

I do not think that someone who throws a milkshake then decides as a result its time to run round with a sword...but if you do then I suggest that BK and Mcds ban milkshakes immediately....

[Prufrock]

I do think it's a stretch to suggest throwing milkshakes or eggs is likely to lead to violence. I'm not aware of any examples of assassinations/political violence where obnoxious pranks have been a gateway to something more serious.

It's wrong and shouldn't happen, but I don't think the two can be elided.

I also think, separately, that Farridge has some neck on him given his comments about no shots being fired, and justifying political violence and insurrection if Brexit doesn't happen. If the political temperature is high at the moment he carries a fair amount of responsibility.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

I do think it's a stretch to suggest throwing milkshakes or eggs is likely to lead to violence. I'm not aware of any examples of assassinations/political violence where obnoxious pranks have been a gateway to something more serious.

It's wrong and shouldn't happen, but I don't think the two can be elided.

I also think, separately, that Farridge has some neck on him given his comments about no shots being fired, and justifying political violence and insurrection if Brexit doesn't happen. If the political temperature is high at the moment he carries a fair amount of responsibility.

You place your cards on the table straightaway and then don't realise you've given away that you've only got a pair of sevens:
"..think it's a stretch to suggest throwing milkshakes or eggs is likely to lead to violence" - of course it doesn't lead to violence. It is violence.
The scale of the violence is immaterial.
I remember you castigating me when I mentioned that a cricketer was merely engaged in a "street fight". Violence is violence no matter what the physical outcome is, is basically what you preached to me then. Changed your mind now?

[Prufrock]

No, because we don't agree as to what violence means.

As far as a semantic argument goes, I just don't think throwing milkshake on someone, or egging them is violence. It's wrong and obnoxious, and shouldn't happen, but it isn't violence.

But let's ignore the semantics and say for the sake of argument it *is* violence. There is a scale of violence, with egging v much towards one end, and murder v much towards the other. A bar fight is somewhere between those.

I don't think there's any evidence to suggest that this sort of "prank violence" is a gateway to going on to commit more serious types of violence up to and including murder.

I never preached that "violence is violence no matter what". There is clearly a scale. My point then, and still is, that what Ben Stokes did can only rationally be described as serious violence. Milkshaking is not.

And it's you having to argue that all violence is somehow the same to argue your point, draped in shit poker metaphors (a pair of sevens is a decent hand).

[Lost Leopard Spot]

No, because we don't agree as to what violence means.

As far as a semantic argument goes, I just don't think throwing milkshake on someone, or egging them is violence. It's wrong and obnoxious, and shouldn't happen, but it isn't violence.

But let's ignore the semantics and say for the sake of argument it *is* violence. There is a scale of violence, with egging v much towards one end, and murder v much towards the other. A bar fight is somewhere between those.

I don't think there's any evidence to suggest that this sort of "prank violence" is a gateway to going on to commit more serious types of violence up to and including murder.

I never preached that "violence is violence no matter what". There is clearly a scale. My point then, and still is, that what Ben Stokes did can only rationally be described as serious violence. Milkshaking is not.

And it's you having to argue that all violence is somehow the same to argue your point, draped in shit poker metaphors (a pair of sevens is a decent hand).

We'll drop the metaphor, (a pair of sevens is suboptimal - in fact it's one of the worst hands you can get: it gives confidence where none should lie. I'd love to play you at poker).
Anyway, like Jimbo said about Crouch, once one does something the crowd joins in. Everybody then feels comfortable doing it.
Do you think that somehow Slough and Raqqa are on different planets? Do you think that Raqqa got to a point where heads littered the streets because one day that was just how it happened? You don't think there were intermediate steps? You don't think it all started through politics? You don't think that one angry Muslim Brotherhood member flung a shoe at somebody someday?

[Prufrock]

Of course violence can escalate into more serious violence, and non-violence can escalate into violence.

I can certainly see how this type of prank could lead to violence (or more serious violence, if you will) by *other people*. I could see Yaxley-Lennon's goons (or elements of the far left re: Corbyn) using it as an excuse for their own thuggery, but that's not an excuse for that, nor IMO would that be the fault of the milkshakers. In fact, a cynic would argue some folk are pearl-clutching now with a view to justifying "real" violence down the road.

As I've said several times, that's not too defend the obnoxious cretins who shouldn't do it.

To put it another way, assume we do end up down your road of escalation leading to serious violence (Syrian-esque or not): which do you think would be more blameworthy? A berk on a provincial town clodding McDonalds drinks at someone, or a political leader saying he would "don khaki, pick up a rifle and head for the front lines" if Brexit wasn't delivered.

[Harry Genshaw]

A quick read today on Facebook about the matter was rather depressing. Folk trying to justify it by comparing this guys actions to the cable street gang but then they were also justifying any kind of violence against Farage because 'he's a Nazi' - so it's not just Bwfci.

Taken in isolation - it's a soft drink, quite harmless and should be tomorrow's fish & chip paper.

However, what I read today was suggesting it's fine to use any kind of violence against folk you think are Nazis, which isn't too far from the racist idiots who think it's OK to attack Muslims if they think they might be jihadis