The Politics Thread

[jimbo]

Theresa May in Brussels. What a waste of public funds, I mean what the fxck is she doing there?

Apologising in advance for Boris?

[Hoboh]

I did vote leave but only after being undecided right up until voting day. It's the hardcore at either ends that we as a country need to bring on side. Insane and his ilk will never accept leave. Farage and right wing Tories aren't going to give up their 'victory' & accept remain.

I just don't see a way out/forward

What I will or won't accept is neither here nor there. I don't believe leaving is the "best" thing for the country. I think all forms of leave are a bad choice.

I can live with a sensible deal that protects the economy as far as possible whilst honoring the result of the referendum. I think it would be worse than remaining but a deal that offers regulatory alignment on goods (some form of customs union/arrangement/partnership whatever you want to call it) and some sort of negotiated market access for goods and services. I could live with. I would see that as a sensible compromise to get us forward. I still wouldn't think it was the best option - but what I think doesn't matter.

However we're now in revisionist times where Brexit apparently means leaving without a deal. Inspite of the leave campaign spending loads of time telling us there was no way we'd not leave with a deal. And so the truth has been distorted so that the only true Brexit is a no deal exit. And in my view that requires a new mandate. Because as much as people will lie and say that's what they always voted for, the majority, IMO did not. And if the consequences are as bad as they could be then there will need to be accountability.

Sorry mate but most leavers would like some sort of deal but not like the type the EU tried to stitch us up with aided by remainer wimps.
The people who are really driving no deal back on to the table are you and your ilk supported by May and a few others in bending over for anything Merkels puppets could throw at us complete with a mega bill to boot!

[malcd1]

Here a summary of how much we contribute to the EU and why they do not want us to leave.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-48256318

[BWFC_Insane]

Here a summary of how much we contribute to the EU and why they do not want us to leave.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-48256318

And here's a summary of how much EU membership has boosted our economy. And why our net contribution has been paid for thousands of times over by the benefit of market access and the growth that has accelerated.

https://www.inet.ox.ac.uk/news/Brexit

[Hoboh]

Here a summary of how much we contribute to the EU and why they do not want us to leave.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-48256318

And here's a summary of how much EU membership has boosted our economy. And why our net contribution has been paid for thousands of times over by the benefit of market access and the growth that has accelerated.

https://www.inet.ox.ac.uk/news/Brexit

Aye and how about throwing in how many Spanish Bulgarian and all the other poor contributors m-ways airports etc. Has our money gone to?

[BWFC_Insane]

Here a summary of how much we contribute to the EU and why they do not want us to leave.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-48256318

And here's a summary of how much EU membership has boosted our economy. And why our net contribution has been paid for thousands of times over by the benefit of market access and the growth that has accelerated.

https://www.inet.ox.ac.uk/news/Brexit

Aye and how about throwing in how many Spanish Bulgarian and all the other poor contributors m-ways airports etc. Has our money gone to?

But we've made our investment back. So what does it matter? We've done well out of it. Our performance in, outstrips our performance out. A good investment.

[Enoch]

Institute for New Economic Thinking.

Funded by George Soros.

Why wouldn't anyone believe anything they have to say!

[BWFC_Insane]

Institute for New Economic Thinking.

Funded by George Soros.

Why wouldn't anyone believe anything they have to say!

Yeah two Professors and a Doctor of economics. Perhaps you could outline your qualifications that debunk this analysis....

[jimbo]

I see the membership contributions as essentially a tax we have to pay in order to reap the benefits of being a member. We give a little to get a lot back in terms of using free movement of labour to fill our service industry and NHS and access to single market with frictionless trade with other members. It’s not simply chucking that money down the drain.

When we leave, we’ll wont be spending the headline figure. The question that’s open for debate is whether we can replace the benefits we currently have with equivalent deals elsewhere. I don’t think we will. Others will be more confident.

[BWFC_Insane]

https://www.ft.com/content/202a60c0-cfd ... f7778e7377

Different source same thing....

[Hoboh]

I see the membership contributions as essentially a tax we have to pay in order to reap the benefits of being a member. We give a little to get a lot back in terms of using free movement of labour to fill our service industry and NHS and access to single market with frictionless trade with other members. It’s not simply chucking that money down the drain.

When we leave, we’ll wont be spending the headline figure. The question that’s open for debate is whether we can replace the benefits we currently have with equivalent deals elsewhere. I don’t think we will. Others will be more confident.

Well Jimbo that free movement won't pay the dole and associated outlay for our own young and gives companies and institutions the excuse not to train the young ones but hey what does that matter? IMO of course. Who exactly benefits from all this free trade, not I hasten to add do I discourage a level playing field as in a common market, I think you will find it's the Besos and sorros of this world not Joe public.

[BWFC_Insane]

I see the membership contributions as essentially a tax we have to pay in order to reap the benefits of being a member. We give a little to get a lot back in terms of using free movement of labour to fill our service industry and NHS and access to single market with frictionless trade with other members. It’s not simply chucking that money down the drain.

When we leave, we’ll wont be spending the headline figure. The question that’s open for debate is whether we can replace the benefits we currently have with equivalent deals elsewhere. I don’t think we will. Others will be more confident.

Yes. We pay in to get free market access and frictionless trade. Are those things worth it? They have been in that they've been worth way, way more than our net contributions. Even the pro-Brexit economists (there are about 2) admit our economic performance in the EU has been good.

As for whether we can replace the benefits - possibly but not via a no deal exit and not before its cost us the equivalent in decades of EU fees. Its an exercise in cutting off an arm in order to be able to choose your own pair of sunglasses. Its nice to be able to choose cool looking sunglasses. Some might even say important. But losing an arm to do so....

[BWFC_Insane]

I see the membership contributions as essentially a tax we have to pay in order to reap the benefits of being a member. We give a little to get a lot back in terms of using free movement of labour to fill our service industry and NHS and access to single market with frictionless trade with other members. It’s not simply chucking that money down the drain.

When we leave, we’ll wont be spending the headline figure. The question that’s open for debate is whether we can replace the benefits we currently have with equivalent deals elsewhere. I don’t think we will. Others will be more confident.

Well Jimbo that free movement won't pay the dole and associated outlay for our own young and gives companies and institutions the excuse not to train the young ones but hey what does that matter? IMO of course. Who exactly benefits from all this free trade, not I hasten to add do I discourage a level playing field as in a common market, I think you will find it's the Besos and sorros of this world not Joe public.

Those that come from the EU make a net contribution to the economy.

Your argument about the UK not training its own. When we leave the EU - (and lose the EU regional development funding but that's another story) the plan is to bring more migrants in from India, Pakistan, far east to compensate. You cannot in any reality expect businesses or the NHS to suddenly suspend operations whilst they identify, persuade and train our unemployed. It simply won't happen. Non-EU migration is rising already in order to plug any deficit.

[Hoboh]

I see the membership contributions as essentially a tax we have to pay in order to reap the benefits of being a member. We give a little to get a lot back in terms of using free movement of labour to fill our service industry and NHS and access to single market with frictionless trade with other members. It’s not simply chucking that money down the drain.

When we leave, we’ll wont be spending the headline figure. The question that’s open for debate is whether we can replace the benefits we currently have with equivalent deals elsewhere. I don’t think we will. Others will be more confident.

Well Jimbo that free movement won't pay the dole and associated outlay for our own young and gives companies and institutions the excuse not to train the young ones but hey what does that matter? IMO of course. Who exactly benefits from all this free trade, not I hasten to add do I discourage a level playing field as in a common market, I think you will find it's the Besos and sorros of this world not Joe public.

Those that come from the EU make a net contribution to the economy.

Your argument about the UK not training its own. When we leave the EU - (and lose the EU regional development funding but that's another story) the plan is to bring more migrants in from India, Pakistan, far east to compensate. You cannot in any reality expect businesses or the NHS to suddenly suspend operations whilst they identify, persuade and train our unemployed. It simply won't happen. Non-EU migration is rising already in order to plug any deficit.

So you are happy to right off the youth fair enough I'd bet your kids are falling over backwards to fill the vacancies in Bulgaria

[BWFC_Insane]

I see the membership contributions as essentially a tax we have to pay in order to reap the benefits of being a member. We give a little to get a lot back in terms of using free movement of labour to fill our service industry and NHS and access to single market with frictionless trade with other members. It’s not simply chucking that money down the drain.

When we leave, we’ll wont be spending the headline figure. The question that’s open for debate is whether we can replace the benefits we currently have with equivalent deals elsewhere. I don’t think we will. Others will be more confident.

Well Jimbo that free movement won't pay the dole and associated outlay for our own young and gives companies and institutions the excuse not to train the young ones but hey what does that matter? IMO of course. Who exactly benefits from all this free trade, not I hasten to add do I discourage a level playing field as in a common market, I think you will find it's the Besos and sorros of this world not Joe public.

Those that come from the EU make a net contribution to the economy.

Your argument about the UK not training its own. When we leave the EU - (and lose the EU regional development funding but that's another story) the plan is to bring more migrants in from India, Pakistan, far east to compensate. You cannot in any reality expect businesses or the NHS to suddenly suspend operations whilst they identify, persuade and train our unemployed. It simply won't happen. Non-EU migration is rising already in order to plug any deficit.

So you are happy to right off the youth fair enough I'd bet your kids are falling over backwards to fill the vacancies in Bulgaria

*write.

Isn't youth unemployment at record low levels? I get your argument but I'm not sure it holds up to scrutiny. You are potentially writing off the potential for my kids in the future to work in the EU - certainly making it harder for them. Or study.

I think my point is that as inward EU migration is reducing inward non-EU migration is increasing. The reality is that our economy is currently reliant on foreign labour, some cheap, and some expert with skills lacking here. Is that going to change because we leave the EU? No. Is the global economy going away because we left? No.

You can opine about the need for a self-sufficient UK all you like. But you know it isn't happening. Regardless of our decision to leave. We will still be importing people from elsewhere.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

I see the membership contributions as essentially a tax we have to pay in order to reap the benefits of being a member. We give a little to get a lot back in terms of using free movement of labour to fill our service industry and NHS and access to single market with frictionless trade with other members. It’s not simply chucking that money down the drain.

When we leave, we’ll wont be spending the headline figure. The question that’s open for debate is whether we can replace the benefits we currently have with equivalent deals elsewhere. I don’t think we will. Others will be more confident.

Well Jimbo that free movement won't pay the dole and associated outlay for our own young and gives companies and institutions the excuse not to train the young ones but hey what does that matter? IMO of course. Who exactly benefits from all this free trade, not I hasten to add do I discourage a level playing field as in a common market, I think you will find it's the Besos and sorros of this world not Joe public.

Those that come from the EU make a net contribution to the economy.

Your argument about the UK not training its own. When we leave the EU - (and lose the EU regional development funding but that's another story) the plan is to bring more migrants in from India, Pakistan, far east to compensate. You cannot in any reality expect businesses or the NHS to suddenly suspend operations whilst they identify, persuade and train our unemployed. It simply won't happen. Non-EU migration is rising already in order to plug any deficit.

So you are happy to right off the youth fair enough I'd bet your kids are falling over backwards to fill the vacancies in Bulgaria

*write.

Isn't youth unemployment at record low levels? I get your argument but I'm not sure it holds up to scrutiny. You are potentially writing off the potential for my kids in the future to work in the EU - certainly making it harder for them. Or study.

I think my point is that as inward EU migration is reducing inward non-EU migration is increasing. The reality is that our economy is currently reliant on foreign labour, some cheap, and some expert with skills lacking here. Is that going to change because we leave the EU? No. Is the global economy going away because we left? No.

You can opine about the need for a self-sufficient UK all you like. But you know it isn't happening. Regardless of our decision to leave. We will still be importing people from elsewhere.

Your kids? You have children then!

[Enoch]

Your kids? You have children then!

One named Dorothy, one made of straw and one made of tin.

...and there's another one that can be a bit of a handful!

[Lost Leopard Spot]

You're so weird.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Isn't youth unemployment at record low levels? I get your argument but I'm not sure it holds up to scrutiny. You are potentially writing off the potential for my kids in the future to work in the EU - certainly making it harder for them. Or study.

I think my point is that as inward EU migration is reducing inward non-EU migration is increasing. The reality is that our economy is currently reliant on foreign labour, some cheap, and some expert with skills lacking here. Is that going to change because we leave the EU? No. Is the global economy going away because we left? No.

You can opine about the need for a self-sufficient UK all you like. But you know it isn't happening. Regardless of our decision to leave. We will still be importing people from elsewhere.

I don't get your argument.
On one hand you are complaining that your child won't have the opportunity to work abroad because it's oh so skilful, but at the same time stating we will still need to import people to replace your child who can't fxck off abroad!
You talk Nonsense.

[BWFC_Insane]

Isn't youth unemployment at record low levels? I get your argument but I'm not sure it holds up to scrutiny. You are potentially writing off the potential for my kids in the future to work in the EU - certainly making it harder for them. Or study.

I think my point is that as inward EU migration is reducing inward non-EU migration is increasing. The reality is that our economy is currently reliant on foreign labour, some cheap, and some expert with skills lacking here. Is that going to change because we leave the EU? No. Is the global economy going away because we left? No.

You can opine about the need for a self-sufficient UK all you like. But you know it isn't happening. Regardless of our decision to leave. We will still be importing people from elsewhere.

I don't get your argument.
On one hand you are complaining that your child won't have the opportunity to work abroad because it's oh so skilful, but at the same time stating we will still need to import people to replace your child who can't fxck off abroad!
You talk Nonsense.

There are two arguments. 1) Choice. Freedom of movement empowers people to choose where they live and work more easily. We've had that benefit. Now future generations will not.
2) Most importantly - your rather simplistic argument is nonsense. We have record low unemployment in younger people - yet still need to import, nurses, doctors, cleaners, care home workers, farm workers etc etc....it is now a global skills and job market. Except we're making it harder but will still need to be in there....