creeeeeeeekeeeeeet

[TANGODANCER]

Would we have taken 284 all out for them if offered it at 11-o'clock this morning? Smith apart, they have struggled along. We need some composure and sensible batting, it's only Day 1.

[Worthy4England]

Would've much preferred 184...284 is almost a proper score methinks...

[Worthy4England]

At least no calamity before the close. Big morning tomorrow.

[Bruce Rioja]

How much promise has today held for us on both the football and cricketing front? Yet has delivered absolutely nothing.

Sometimes I'm jealous of my elder brother - he has no sporting interest whatsoever. He knows better than to make huge swathes of emotional investment into things you can do absolutely feck all about.

284 would have been a cracking knock anyway, but to achieve it from 122 - 8 is just phenomenal.

Similar to what Tango said, criticise and boo Steve Smith all you like, but you simply have to respect him as an outstanding player.

Credit also to Peter Siddle for sticking Boycott's stick of rhubarb on it.

Also, who said Anderson was fit enough? He lasted four overs.

85 to avoid the follow-on

[Harry Genshaw]

I'm a cricketing ignoramus so apologies if I'm talking bollocks here but it always seems to me during the Ashes, the Aussies always seem to have tailenders who are capable of racking up a few runs. We on the other hand always seem heavily reliant (overly) on the openers & middle order.

I'm sticking with my prediction of a series loss this time. 1-3

[Bruce Rioja]

I'm a cricketing ignoramus so apologies if I'm talking bollocks here but it always seems to me during the Ashes, the Aussies always seem to have tailenders who are capable of racking up a few runs. We on the other hand always seem heavily reliant (overly) on the openers & middle order.

I'm sticking with my prediction of a series loss this time. 1-3

Had this same conversation with another pal earlier, Harry. The Aussies in the past 20 or so years have, at all times, been able to bat down the order. We're in a position in which personally I wouldn't have picked three at least two of our opening four.

[Worthy4England]

I'm a cricketing ignoramus so apologies if I'm talking bollocks here but it always seems to me during the Ashes, the Aussies always seem to have tailenders who are capable of racking up a few runs. We on the other hand always seem heavily reliant (overly) on the openers & middle order.

I'm sticking with my prediction of a series loss this time. 1-3

Had this same conversation with another pal earlier, Harry. The Aussies in the past 20 or so years have, at all times, been able to bat down the order. We're in a position in which personally I wouldn't have picked three at least two of our opening four.

Our tail quite often wags too, compared against the top five, recently...

[TANGODANCER]

I'm a cricketing ignoramus so apologies if I'm talking bollocks here but it always seems to me during the Ashes, the Aussies always seem to have tailenders who are capable of racking up a few runs. We on the other hand always seem heavily reliant (overly) on the openers & middle order.

I'm sticking with my prediction of a series loss this time. 1-3

All part of the game Harry; it wouldn't be fun if it were predictable. One thing about the Aussies, they're passionate about their cricket. Did you see the almost demonic delight on Steve Smith's face as he waited for the balls? Fearless as xxxx. The Ashes is like Ivanhoe with cricket bats.
I can think far, far back and almost hear John Arlott on the radio saying in that slow drawl of his,...."and he runs up, and he bowls and....he's gone....!"

[BWFC_Insane]

How much promise has today held for us on both the football and cricketing front? Yet has delivered absolutely nothing.

Sometimes I'm jealous of my elder brother - he has no sporting interest whatsoever. He knows better than to make huge swathes of emotional investment into things you can do absolutely feck all about.

284 would have been a cracking knock anyway, but to achieve it from 122 - 8 is just phenomenal.

Similar to what Tango said, criticise and boo Steve Smith all you like, but you simply have to respect him as an outstanding player.

Credit also to Peter Siddle for sticking Boycott's stick of rhubarb on it.

Also, who said Anderson was fit enough? He lasted four overs.

85 to avoid the follow-on

I mean we'd have probably taken 284 all out at the start. Maybe. Just.

If we'd been told Anderson would only bowl 4 overs we'd definitely have taken it.

I started the series thinking the difference between the two sides would be they have a world class batsman in Smith and we don't and I feel pretty confident after yesterday that will be the case.

However, we won the world cup and I never thought I'd see that in my lifetime. We will win another ashes at some point - I just don't think we quite have the quality right now to do so.

[Worthy4England]

I'm not sure who on our side is going to be likely for a 100 at the moment in the sort of manner that Smith dug in. If you do some fag packet maths - if there's three @ 10 or below - that's 30. three get to 30ish - that's 120. Then we need probably three that are going to hit 50.

[BWFC_Insane]

I'm not sure who on our side is going to be likely for a 100 at the moment in the sort of manner that Smith dug in. If you do some fag packet maths - if there's three @ 10 or below - that's 30. three get to 30ish - that's 120. Then we need probably three that are going to hit 50.

Yeah - I mean had Anderson been fit, given his ability to bowl at the tail you could well have seen them out for 140 ish.

And then we'd have probably seen 200 as a really good score.

Archer really needs to prove his fitness now for Sussex because we'll need him in the next test. I'd be sorely tempted to bring Curran in for Denly too. Beef up the bowling - because Jimmy we know is consistent - without him we need options. And Denly I can't see scoring many and I rather suspect Curran might score more.

[Prufrock]

Still hard to tell until both sides have batted on it though. We forget how awful they are batting too. Didn't seem to do that much to me and their top order were woeful. Don't think Smith gave a chance, not even did Siddle and even Lyon. They weren't clinging on, Siddle in particular.

I think we're capable of collapsing for 100, or of getting 350+. Now would be a good time for Root to up that conversion rate but there's plenty of runs in that middle order if enough of the top order can stick around. Ball nipped about a bit when new yesterday but then did nothing forong periods.

[TANGODANCER]

I started the series thinking the difference between the two sides would be they have a world class batsman in Smith and we don't and I feel pretty confident after yesterday that will be the case.

So Joe Root isn't a world class batsman then? Really? Shall we see?

[BWFC_Insane]

I started the series thinking the difference between the two sides would be they have a world class batsman in Smith and we don't and I feel pretty confident after yesterday that will be the case.

So Joe Root isn't a world class batsman then? Really? Shall we see?

Well he may well be. But if you work on basis Root is our best test batsman and Smith is theirs...

Root averages 49 (he is our only batsman to average over 40). Steve Smith averages 61. That is a pretty huge difference. Smith one of the best ever (still a cheat) Root a very very good player.

Root is a very fine player but the record suggests Smith will fire more often than Root and across a series where both sides have shaky line ups - that to me is the difference. Its possible Root will outperform the stats - I hope so. Or another of our lads will. Roy probably best bet to do so given he hasn't got any stats. But yeah - on paper for me that's the major difference between two sides who have strong bowling attacks and weak batting line ups.

[Worthy4England]

I started the series thinking the difference between the two sides would be they have a world class batsman in Smith and we don't and I feel pretty confident after yesterday that will be the case.

So Joe Root isn't a world class batsman then? Really? Shall we see?

There is a difference in tests between the two and it depends where you draw the "world class" line - Smith averages around 60 against us. Last 10 innings against us that average is over 100 (102). Root averages 42 against Austraila - which is very good. Last 10 innings against them just slightly lower at 38.

Maybe Smith needs an "upper world class" bracket vs us.

[Prufrock]

Read yesterday as well that Smith's average in the first innings of the match (ie Oz bat first) is 116! And those averages also brought down by his not insignificant spell as an all rounder before he focused on his batting.

It's semantics, but I think Root is world class (though I think they lead 2-1 with batsmen with Warner world class as well) whereas Smith is "arguably best of all time" class.

But then I think we have more "very very goods" in Stokes and Buttler (and maybe Roy and Bairstow) than them (erm...noone else but Smith and Warner!).

Bowling: one worldie each (Cummings and Jimmy...) but plenty of v goods on both sides (esp in these conditions).

I still think we're favourites for the series as we have far more "good" options batting (and with Stokes can take the weight off the seamers better) whereas they are almost wholly reliant on at least one of Smith of Warner going big.

[BWFC_Insane]

I started the series thinking the difference between the two sides would be they have a world class batsman in Smith and we don't and I feel pretty confident after yesterday that will be the case.

So Joe Root isn't a world class batsman then? Really? Shall we see?

There is a difference in tests between the two and it depends where you draw the "world class" line - Smith averages around 60 against us. Last 10 innings against us that average is over 100 (102). Root averages 42 against Austraila - which is very good. Last 10 innings against them just slightly lower at 38.

Maybe Smith needs an "upper world class" bracket vs us.

Ha. We've said same thing. But Smith's overall test average is 61 - which puts him into a bracket that not many if any others in the game currently fit. That's an unbelieveably good average.

[Prufrock]

I started the series thinking the difference between the two sides would be they have a world class batsman in Smith and we don't and I feel pretty confident after yesterday that will be the case.

So Joe Root isn't a world class batsman then? Really? Shall we see?

There is a difference in tests between the two and it depends where you draw the "world class" line - Smith averages around 60 against us. Last 10 innings against us that average is over 100 (102). Root averages 42 against Austraila - which is very good. Last 10 innings against them just slightly lower at 38.

Maybe Smith needs an "upper world class" bracket vs us.

Ha. We've said same thing. But Smith's overall test average is 61 - which puts him into a bracket that not many if any others in the game currently fit. That's an unbelieveably good average.

Pretty sure it's the second best of all time (and by a distance, though nowhere near as much as the gap from 1 to 2!).

Edit think it might just be second now but not by much.

[BWFC_Insane]

Read yesterday as well that Smith's average in the first innings of the match (ie Oz bat first) is 116!

I think Root is world class (though I think they lead 2-1 with batsmen with Warner) whereas Smith is "arguably best of all time" class.

But then I think we have more "very very goods" in Stokes and Buttler (and maybe Roy and Bairstow) than them (erm...noone else but Smith and Warner!).

Bowling one worldie each (Cummings and Jimmy) but plenty of v goods (esp I. These conditions).

I still think we're favourites as we have far more "good" options whereas they are almost wholly reliant on at least one of Smith of Warner going big.

The current Aussie side other than Smith has players with averages over 40, Warner, Head, Paine and Khawaja. Head in fairness has played only 9 matches so perhaps discount him. But average over 40 is generally regarded as very good solid test batsman quality.

England apart from Root don't have a player with an average over 40. Next best is Bairstow on 36. I'm not sure there is an argument that we have better "very goods" statistically we don't have any "very goods" other than Root...

[Prufrock]

Not as simple as just looking at averages. They play half their tests on flat tracks. Khawaja averages about 4 outside Australia.