It's Rochdale....again. Rochdale (H) 19th October 2019 15:00

Where fellow sufferers gather to share the pain, longing and unrequited transfer requests that make being a Wanderer what it is...

Moderator: Zulus Thousand of em

Jugs
Dedicated
Dedicated
Posts: 1946
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 10:31 pm
Location: On a shelf

Re: It's Rochdale....again. Rochdale (H) 19th October 2019 15:00

Post by Jugs » Sat Oct 19, 2019 6:05 pm

I think overall, though, we all know this season is a write-off! So we're just going to have to enjoy nicking points off teams who need them more than we do lol

BWFC_Insane
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 25762
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:07 pm

Re: It's Rochdale....again. Rochdale (H) 19th October 2019 15:00

Post by BWFC_Insane » Sat Oct 19, 2019 6:08 pm

It’s the same as when Parky was here. Who cares about style when you get potted by Rochdale at home? Injuries clearly a big factor. Noticeable that Wilbraham turned the game as the young lad at centre back couldn’t cope with him.

However, Hill doesn’t get away free from criticism. The way he’s setting us up isn’t working. Clear as day it isn’t. Politic is not in the game from the right and we don’t get the delivery that Murphy needs. He’s limited for playing options but having wingers on natural sides especially Verlinde would have helped hugely. Why Crawford played so deep is beyond me.

Results largely irrelevant but today was the first time I can say that even with injuries and circumstances that was simply not good enough.

Jugs
Dedicated
Dedicated
Posts: 1946
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 10:31 pm
Location: On a shelf

Re: It's Rochdale....again. Rochdale (H) 19th October 2019 15:00

Post by Jugs » Sat Oct 19, 2019 6:14 pm

^^ largely agreed

User avatar
TANGODANCER
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 38394
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2005 9:35 pm
Location: Lost between the Regency and the Rubaiyat and forever trying to light a penny candle from a star.

Re: It's Rochdale....again. Rochdale (H) 19th October 2019 15:00

Post by TANGODANCER » Sat Oct 19, 2019 6:32 pm

DJBlu wrote:
Sat Oct 19, 2019 5:51 pm

These injuries just seem more likely here at Bolton, it's like we're a soap opera that is never going to end it's story line.
You mean like a sort of "Casualty" ? :oops:

ae:)
The wisest and the best of men, nay, the wisest and best of their actions, may be rendered ridiculous by a person whose first object in life is a joke...Darcy. Pride and Prejudice.

DJBlu
Site Admin
Posts: 3833
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 7:38 pm

Re: It's Rochdale....again. Rochdale (H) 19th October 2019 15:00

Post by DJBlu » Sat Oct 19, 2019 6:41 pm

"Jack Hobbs' back injury has cropped up again. Not great news. Sonny Graham also rolled his ankle today."

Yup, a really shit episode of Casualty.

nicholaldo
Reliable
Reliable
Posts: 580
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:23 pm

Re: It's Rochdale....again. Rochdale (H) 19th October 2019 15:00

Post by nicholaldo » Sat Oct 19, 2019 6:52 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sat Oct 19, 2019 6:08 pm
It’s the same as when Parky was here. Who cares about style when you get potted by Rochdale at home? Injuries clearly a big factor. Noticeable that Wilbraham turned the game as the young lad at centre back couldn’t cope with him.

However, Hill doesn’t get away free from criticism. The way he’s setting us up isn’t working. Clear as day it isn’t. Politic is not in the game from the right and we don’t get the delivery that Murphy needs. He’s limited for playing options but having wingers on natural sides especially Verlinde would have helped hugely. Why Crawford played so deep is beyond me.

Results largely irrelevant but today was the first time I can say that even with injuries and circumstances that was simply not good enough.

Regarding Politic, I don't think he's much of a winger. If we're to get the best out of him, I think we have to play him centrally.

Jugs
Dedicated
Dedicated
Posts: 1946
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 10:31 pm
Location: On a shelf

Re: It's Rochdale....again. Rochdale (H) 19th October 2019 15:00

Post by Jugs » Sat Oct 19, 2019 6:59 pm

Get Politic in the centre and Dodoo out wide.

nicholaldo
Reliable
Reliable
Posts: 580
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:23 pm

Re: It's Rochdale....again. Rochdale (H) 19th October 2019 15:00

Post by nicholaldo » Sat Oct 19, 2019 7:32 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Sat Oct 19, 2019 4:56 pm
I'm expecting some good quotes tonight.

It's perhaps just as well that Flitcroft did the post-match interview.

twilight
Dedicated
Dedicated
Posts: 1095
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2014 10:51 pm

Re: It's Rochdale....again. Rochdale (H) 19th October 2019 15:00

Post by twilight » Sat Oct 19, 2019 7:51 pm

Injuries are really taking their toll. We can't keep losing senior players, playing young ones out of position and expect to get any kind of result. After saying that, we did ok 1st half and it was pretty even. But we are a 60 minute team and ran out of steam. We also missed Bridcutt. Did Sonny Graham touch the ball? or Politic? Anyway, like said, there are too many injuries now

officer_dibble
Legend
Legend
Posts: 8394
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 9:33 pm
Location: Leeds

Re: It's Rochdale....again. Rochdale (H) 19th October 2019 15:00

Post by officer_dibble » Sat Oct 19, 2019 8:30 pm

Another month without winning and the crowds are going to take a tumble. That’s the problem with cheap season tickets.

User avatar
Dave Sutton's barnet
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 17042
Joined: Sun May 14, 2006 4:00 pm
Location: Hanging on in quiet desperation
Contact:

Re: It's Rochdale....again. Rochdale (H) 19th October 2019 15:00

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:31 am

Couple of things. First, a realisation of realignment.

When I started supporting Wanderers, we saw our rightful rivalry as United (then way above us), although we had some historical beef with Blackburn (a division above us), Blackburn and Bury (usually about level) and Wigan (usually below us). Then came Tranmere, around our level. We didn't really have any feelings toward Rochdale, who felt about as relevant as a new kid to a third-former.

Fast-forward to now and things have changed a lot. As funny as United's woes are, they're on even more of a different planet. Blackburn, although they've had big ups and the odd down since, are once again mid-table second-tier. Blackpool have also come and gone but are pointing in the right direction and it wouldn't be a surprise if they're two tiers above us next term. Wigan probably will be, too, for the first time ever. There's a hope that Tranmere can be dragged down with us, but it's beyond our wheelhouse. And then there's Rochdale, a club I've always quite liked and still do. And look at our record against them since 1993:
Screen Shot 2019-10-21 at 09.25.56.png
Screen Shot 2019-10-21 at 09.25.56.png (34.85 KiB) Viewed 329 times
In short: We're Not Famous Any More, except perhaps as a crisis club. But we can rise again. And when we (hopefully) start singing "Bolton Are Back" as next season rolls on, we'll sing it with more hard-earned honesty and heartfelt hopefulness than at any time since the late 80s and early 90s.

On a dafter note, but also time-travelling, I did some research on Saturday for a tweet and it would be a shame not to share it here. These were the UK No.1s when various players at Bolton-Rochdale were born...
EHPvWAxX0AAmXgi.jpg
EHPvWAxX0AAmXgi.jpg (37.22 KiB) Viewed 329 times

Bertie Wooster
Promising
Promising
Posts: 285
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:49 am

Re: It's Rochdale....again. Rochdale (H) 19th October 2019 15:00

Post by Bertie Wooster » Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:20 am

officer_dibble wrote:
Sat Oct 19, 2019 8:30 pm
Another month without winning and the crowds are going to take a tumble. That’s the problem with cheap season tickets.
Personally I don't think having cheap season tickets is the issue - regardless of the cost of a ST surely long suffering fans cant be expected to just continually turn up week after week, month after month still being grateful that we still have a club with no chance of winning.

We haven't won a game in 20, Hill hasn't won a game in 7 - of course there are mitigating circumstances, and injuries are an issue but if it gets to no win in 10 or 11 how long does Hill get before the fans can start to ask a question or two ?

BWFC_Insane
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 25762
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:07 pm

Re: It's Rochdale....again. Rochdale (H) 19th October 2019 15:00

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:41 am

Bertie Wooster wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:20 am
officer_dibble wrote:
Sat Oct 19, 2019 8:30 pm
Another month without winning and the crowds are going to take a tumble. That’s the problem with cheap season tickets.
Personally I don't think having cheap season tickets is the issue - regardless of the cost of a ST surely long suffering fans cant be expected to just continually turn up week after week, month after month still being grateful that we still have a club with no chance of winning.

We haven't won a game in 20, Hill hasn't won a game in 7 - of course there are mitigating circumstances, and injuries are an issue but if it gets to no win in 10 or 11 how long does Hill get before the fans can start to ask a question or two ?
Its a bit pointless really - Hill is not a magician. Neither was Parky. You can't magic up results if you've not got the players this day and age.

I think the test for Hill comes next season. But he needs IMHO to stop talking so much about nonsense and focus on building a winning team for next season. The only, singular thing that matters in football is results. Not how you play. Not how you talk. Not your willingness or otherwise to give young players ago. You have to win football matches. Over and above everything. If I have a concern with Hill its that he seems to be talking about a "project". We're not a project. We need turning round with results on the pitch. We probably will have to fight and scrap to get them. But lets do that. Its always a risk with these managers who want to play good football that you get carried away with a neverending and never delivering "plan" that ignores the realities. Hill and Flitcroft have said they don't want a "lucky win". Whilst I understand the sentiment I just don't believe we're in a place where you can really be picky about how things are done, so long as they are.

The form for the rest of the season (results not stepovers) will be important in determining whether Hill and co. are capable of building a side that can win league 2. That's the correct expectation now. I want to see us finding ways to win even when odds are against us. So far we're trying to play in a way that we simply cannot. That has to stop.

Branagan
Hopeful
Hopeful
Posts: 77
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:55 am

Re: It's Rochdale....again. Rochdale (H) 19th October 2019 15:00

Post by Branagan » Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:42 am

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:31 am

In short: We're Not Famous Any More
This is something our fans have needed to get their heads around for at least 10 years now.

It's been two months since Hill was appointed. Even in the modern game, considering where we are coming from, to lose patience already is crazy.

I personally won't be judging until half way through next season at least. Call me naive, but I think it's more naive to keep looking for a phoenix in all the ash. For now, just keep sweeping!

Prufrock
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 19970
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:51 pm

Re: It's Rochdale....again. Rochdale (H) 19th October 2019 15:00

Post by Prufrock » Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:46 am

It's all about next season. So I totally understand why they're talking about performances and also why they're keen to get us on the front foot. We're going to have win games next season, lots of them, so no point spending a season trying to bring out 0-0s and nick the occasional win. Also no point playing loads of players who won't be here next year. One or two are fine (as much as Verlinden and Bridcutt won't be playing L2 football next year, I get why we signed them) but the main thing is to find out the ones we want next year, kids included, and be ready to go.
In a world that has decided
That it's going to lose its mind
Be more kind, my friends, try to be more kind.

BWFC_Insane
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 25762
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:07 pm

Re: It's Rochdale....again. Rochdale (H) 19th October 2019 15:00

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:47 am

Branagan wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:42 am
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:31 am

In short: We're Not Famous Any More
This is something our fans have needed to get their heads around for at least 10 years now.

It's been two months since Hill was appointed. Even in the modern game, considering where we are coming from, to lose patience already is crazy.

I personally won't be judging until half way through next season at least. Call me naive, but I think it's more naive to keep looking for a phoenix in all the ash. For now, just keep sweeping!
I agree re phoenix. But we need someone who looks to achieve in short term because longer term is irrelevant if we're stuck in league two. For all Hill's talk about a long term plan I think its pretty meaningless. We need a short term fix in order to get to a longer term plan.

Next season he has to win promotion, no ifs, buts or maybes. And that needs a fix - we need to find a way of winning games. I suspect we'll need to grind out more than we play well in - and Hill needs to realise that. We don't have time to worry about "the ethos". Who cares. Win. Get us back up. That is the only aim he can think about.

Branagan
Hopeful
Hopeful
Posts: 77
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:55 am

Re: It's Rochdale....again. Rochdale (H) 19th October 2019 15:00

Post by Branagan » Mon Oct 21, 2019 11:23 am

Quick fixes are what got us into this mess. Wrong players brought in with an unsustainable wage structure in the hope they'll have a quick impact and turn fortunes around. Does Hill have the right long-term plan? Who knows, but it's gonna take more than two months to find out.

BWFC_Insane
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 25762
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:07 pm

Re: It's Rochdale....again. Rochdale (H) 19th October 2019 15:00

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Oct 21, 2019 11:29 am

Branagan wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 11:23 am
Quick fixes are what got us into this mess. Wrong players brought in with an unsustainable wage structure in the hope they'll have a quick impact and turn fortunes around. Does Hill have the right long-term plan? Who knows, but it's gonna take more than two months to find out.
I disagree. What got us into the mess was poor ownership.

We're going into league two where our crowds and income will dwarf the rest. The fact is that without spending money we should be able to come straight back up. It doesn't mean its easy. But that is the aim and anything less a disaster. Hill needs to focus on this. If we achieve that then look at the next step. We do need to work on development of young players too, but that becomes meaningless if we end up stuck in league two with the loss of income etc that entails.

Sam Allardyce had the right approach. Build in the long term but also fix the short term and prioritise results. That's what I expect. Hill needs to show that he will do so. Doesn't matter what he does otherwise if next season isn't right on the pitch.

Branagan
Hopeful
Hopeful
Posts: 77
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:55 am

Re: It's Rochdale....again. Rochdale (H) 19th October 2019 15:00

Post by Branagan » Mon Oct 21, 2019 11:38 am

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 11:29 am
Branagan wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 11:23 am
Quick fixes are what got us into this mess. Wrong players brought in with an unsustainable wage structure in the hope they'll have a quick impact and turn fortunes around. Does Hill have the right long-term plan? Who knows, but it's gonna take more than two months to find out.
I disagree. What got us into the mess was poor ownership.

We're going into league two where our crowds and income will dwarf the rest. The fact is that without spending money we should be able to come straight back up. It doesn't mean its easy. But that is the aim and anything less a disaster. Hill needs to focus on this. If we achieve that then look at the next step. We do need to work on development of young players too, but that becomes meaningless if we end up stuck in league two with the loss of income etc that entails.

Sam Allardyce had the right approach. Build in the long term but also fix the short term and prioritise results. That's what I expect. Hill needs to show that he will do so. Doesn't matter what he does otherwise if next season isn't right on the pitch.
I can agree with that. Can't judge whether he's succeeding in doing that two months after leaving the mortuary, however.

BWFC_Insane
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 25762
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:07 pm

Re: It's Rochdale....again. Rochdale (H) 19th October 2019 15:00

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Oct 21, 2019 11:42 am

Branagan wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 11:38 am
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 11:29 am
Branagan wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 11:23 am
Quick fixes are what got us into this mess. Wrong players brought in with an unsustainable wage structure in the hope they'll have a quick impact and turn fortunes around. Does Hill have the right long-term plan? Who knows, but it's gonna take more than two months to find out.
I disagree. What got us into the mess was poor ownership.

We're going into league two where our crowds and income will dwarf the rest. The fact is that without spending money we should be able to come straight back up. It doesn't mean its easy. But that is the aim and anything less a disaster. Hill needs to focus on this. If we achieve that then look at the next step. We do need to work on development of young players too, but that becomes meaningless if we end up stuck in league two with the loss of income etc that entails.

Sam Allardyce had the right approach. Build in the long term but also fix the short term and prioritise results. That's what I expect. Hill needs to show that he will do so. Doesn't matter what he does otherwise if next season isn't right on the pitch.
I can agree with that. Can't judge whether he's succeeding in doing that two months after leaving the mortuary, however.
I agree also. But he needs to start saying some of the things that offer confidence that he gets what is needed......words don't mean much but they become important when its impossible to deliver actions.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Harry Genshaw and 10 guests