League One 2019/20

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Re: League One 2019/20

Post by LeverEnd » Thu Oct 24, 2019 11:49 pm

Harry Genshaw wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 5:14 pm
^ Ultimately though the EFL and Doncaster found out about the postponement via the media. That was really poor and I'm sure won't do us any favours
Exactly. That absolute c*nt Appleton gave them.every excuse to punish the club more harshly and didn't give a shit. Nor will he now the fecking leech.
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Re: League One 2019/20

Post by BWFC_Insane » Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:10 am

LeverEnd wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 11:49 pm
Harry Genshaw wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 5:14 pm
^ Ultimately though the EFL and Doncaster found out about the postponement via the media. That was really poor and I'm sure won't do us any favours
Exactly. That absolute c*nt Appleton gave them.every excuse to punish the club more harshly and didn't give a shit. Nor will he now the fecking leech.
This is just completely wrong. He was trying to find a way to force people's hands - he also had the football management side telling him the game shouldn't be played on safety grounds. Calling the game off cost the club money. The idea that it was a decision to line anyone's pockets is ridiculous.

The EFL were asked but said no. I get that ideally we should have told Doncaster first but it wouldn't have made any difference really. We called it off - you can argue about the rights and wrongs of it - but the EFL were a large factor in why it happened - and yet they took and take zero responsibility for that.

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Re: League One 2019/20

Post by LeverEnd » Fri Oct 25, 2019 12:36 pm

'You could argue?'
They definitely should've told Doncaster. they could've announced that they'd requested the postponement from the EFL on medical grounds, put the ball in their court. But no, they just did it unilaterally with the same poor communication the players accused them of. Then buggered off into the sunset with their big bags of loot.
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Re: League One 2019/20

Post by BWFC_Insane » Fri Oct 25, 2019 12:59 pm

LeverEnd wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 12:36 pm
'You could argue?'
They definitely should've told Doncaster. they could've announced that they'd requested the postponement from the EFL on medical grounds, put the ball in their court. But no, they just did it unilaterally with the same poor communication the players accused them of. Then buggered off into the sunset with their big bags of loot.
The EFL said no - so in theory, tell Donny - they go to EFL who say game is on....we'd still have to call it off publicly and unilaterally.

They sold the club in a scenario where most would have given up and liquidated - where they still get their fee - long long before. They were in effect working for free for a number of weeks as there was no way to recover costs after a certain point - I believe they did a deal with FV to fix them.

With other administrators having to try and fix that they'd have taken the same fee and appointed themselves liquidators long before. The fact is that we totally relied on the fact Appleton carves his business out of saving football clubs so didn't want our death and did what he could to avoid it. In reality its a cold hard business.

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Re: League One 2019/20

Post by nicholaldo » Sat Nov 02, 2019 6:10 pm

Things are starting to get very interesting. Today's win moves us that bit closer to those just above us, but more importantly, we're now about to play them. Four of our next five league matches are against clubs in the bottom six, with three of them at home. And the only thing we have to worry about is our injury list.

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Re: League One 2019/20

Post by officer_dibble » Sat Nov 02, 2019 10:52 pm

League one? We’ll shit it

Come one EFL. Do your worst, you set of deplorable c u n t s.

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Re: League One 2019/20

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Sun Nov 03, 2019 1:04 am

Not just us noticing it. Colin Murray mentioned it on t’telly: three games in hand...

It helps that Southend and McDons are on riotously awful form. The bunch above them are still bobbins too. Who knows? We’re giving it a go. And as I said before in this thread, the closer we are, the easier the sell to January targets: you could be an absolute legend. Show ‘em Wilbraham’s goal and imagine cubing that. Just maybe....

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Re: League One 2019/20

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Sun Nov 03, 2019 11:02 am

League One table (bottom half) since Hill & Flicker's arrival.
Screen Shot 2019-11-03 at 11.00.50.png
Screen Shot 2019-11-03 at 11.00.50.png (77.9 KiB) Viewed 1183 times

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Re: League One 2019/20

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Sun Nov 03, 2019 12:46 pm

Having lost to the also-shit Tranmere and dropped below the dots because their old mates AFC Wombletown jammed an injury-tome equaliser, McDons (last 10: one point, one goal) turfed Paul Tisdale out within an hour of the final whistle. They've immediately replaced him with Russell Martin, the 33-year-old centre-back who joined the club In January and took his badges in summer. I shall not complain about this appointment.

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Re: League One 2019/20

Post by nicholaldo » Sun Nov 03, 2019 1:58 pm

Our next five league fixtures:

MK Dons (H)
Accrington Stanley (A)
AFC Wimbledon (H)
Peterborough United (A)
Southend United (H)

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Re: League One 2019/20

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Sun Nov 03, 2019 5:41 pm

nicholaldo wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 1:58 pm
Our next five league fixtures:

Sat 16/11 MK Dons (H)
Sat 23/11 Accrington Stanley (A)
Sat 7/12 AFC Wimbledon (H)
Sat 14/12 Peterborough United (A)
Sat 21/12 Southend United (H)
...with IMO the strong possibility of adding Lincoln back into that. The Imps tweeted on Friday that the clubs are actively discussing when to hold the rematch, and it looks to me to be in about a month's time. I've added the dates to your fixtures for ease...

At the moment it can't be:
• Tue 12/11 – Lincoln are playing their last EFL Trophy group game. (They're out unless they beat Rotherham (who need to win) by four, but we're more likely to go through because we need Bradford not to beat Rochdale by three or Rochdale to beat Bradford by four.)
• Tue 19/11 - held for FA Cup 1st Round replays - unless we both win or lose and they decide effectively nine days' notice is enough
• Tue 3/12 – the midweek scheduled for the first EFL Trophy knockout round.
• Tue 10/12 – FA Cup 2nd Round replays - but as with First Round, if we're both clear either way, then maybe

but it could be:
• Tue 26/11 (seems free to me)
• Sat 29/11 (FA Cup 2nd Round weekend - IF we both lose in FA1)
• Tue 3/12 (IF we both go out of the EFL Trophy)
• Tue 10/12 (IF we both don't have FA2 replays)

Guess who bought a ticket but is on holiday Nov 27-Dec 12?

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Re: League One 2019/20

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Thu Nov 14, 2019 8:25 am

Prepare your “fork the EFL” songs: Marc Iles says disciplinary panel will meet today to decide our game-swerving punishment, which will be announced “by” tomorrow. But IMO it might leak before then...

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/1 ... -decision/

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Re: League One 2019/20

Post by Bertie Wooster » Thu Nov 14, 2019 8:51 am

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 8:25 am
Prepare your “fork the EFL” songs: Marc Iles says disciplinary panel will meet today to decide our game-swerving punishment, which will be announced “by” tomorrow. But IMO it might leak before then...

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/1 ... -decision/
The club should appeal any punishment, and take legal action against the EFL immediately.

We already have the 12 point deduction, plus having to play the 1st handful of fixtures with the kids which resulted in several heavy defeats - so in effect we have already had a 15- 18 point deduction - even now we are still 15 points off safety with almost a 3rd of the season gone. Any punishment should have been against the previous regime, I'm not sure how the EFL could seriously justify any further points deductions without completely damaging the integrity of the league - any punishment should be suspended used as a threat should anything similar happen again under FV.

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Re: League One 2019/20

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:13 am

Bertie Wooster wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 8:51 am
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 8:25 am
Prepare your “fork the EFL” songs: Marc Iles says disciplinary panel will meet today to decide our game-swerving punishment, which will be announced “by” tomorrow. But IMO it might leak before then...

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/1 ... -decision/
The club should appeal any punishment, and take legal action against the EFL immediately.

We already have the 12 point deduction, plus having to play the 1st handful of fixtures with the kids which resulted in several heavy defeats - so in effect we have already had a 15- 18 point deduction - even now we are still 15 points off safety with almost a 3rd of the season gone. Any punishment should have been against the previous regime, I'm not sure how the EFL could seriously justify any further points deductions without completely damaging the integrity of the league - any punishment should be suspended used as a threat should anything similar happen again under FV.
The EFL rules might be wrong - but they are still the rules we operate under. There isn't a basis for a legal challenge - "sorry we think the rules are morally wrong" doesn't cut it.

I suspect clubs aren't even able to take a challenge further than the appeals process anyway.

We're going to have to take whatever we get and suck it up.

I personally feel that the Brentford game has long since been done and dusted - but as I said at the time over the summer the indication given to new buyers from the EFL was of a further 3 points. The Doncaster game muddies the water.

But of course we all know the EFL contributed to this mess and in reality a fair decision would be 3 points suspended for Brentford and award Doncaster a 1-0 win.

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Re: League One 2019/20

Post by boltonboris » Thu Nov 14, 2019 10:16 am

F*ck Doncaster. We were right to abandon the match
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Re: League One 2019/20

Post by officer_dibble » Thu Nov 14, 2019 10:27 am

Be nice to know which owners are pushing for us to have a further 12 points deducted. Will make it all the more sweeter on the way back up. Shithouses!

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Re: League One 2019/20

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Thu Nov 14, 2019 11:05 am

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:13 am
Bertie Wooster wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 8:51 am
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 8:25 am
Prepare your “fork the EFL” songs: Marc Iles says disciplinary panel will meet today to decide our game-swerving punishment, which will be announced “by” tomorrow. But IMO it might leak before then...

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/1 ... -decision/
The club should appeal any punishment, and take legal action against the EFL immediately.

We already have the 12 point deduction, plus having to play the 1st handful of fixtures with the kids which resulted in several heavy defeats - so in effect we have already had a 15- 18 point deduction - even now we are still 15 points off safety with almost a 3rd of the season gone. Any punishment should have been against the previous regime, I'm not sure how the EFL could seriously justify any further points deductions without completely damaging the integrity of the league - any punishment should be suspended used as a threat should anything similar happen again under FV.
The EFL rules might be wrong - but they are still the rules we operate under. There isn't a basis for a legal challenge - "sorry we think the rules are morally wrong" doesn't cut it.

I suspect clubs aren't even able to take a challenge further than the appeals process anyway.

We're going to have to take whatever we get and suck it up.

I personally feel that the Brentford game has long since been done and dusted - but as I said at the time over the summer the indication given to new buyers from the EFL was of a further 3 points. The Doncaster game muddies the water.

But of course we all know the EFL contributed to this mess and in reality a fair decision would be 3 points suspended for Brentford and award Doncaster a 1-0 win.
The club wouldn't be appealing on a vague point of ethics. It could try to appeal any Doncaster punishment on the FA rulebook limiting youth pitch hours. It could also try to appeal the Brentford one on the grounds that "Ken Anderson is all Shaun Harvey's fault", but that's less legally definable. One problem is if the punishment isn't divided per game: if we successfully appeal the Donny bit, they could say the punishment's more for Brentford...

I'm expecting six points now with six points suspended but really, Christ knows.

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Re: League One 2019/20

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Nov 14, 2019 11:47 am

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 11:05 am
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:13 am
Bertie Wooster wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 8:51 am
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 8:25 am
Prepare your “fork the EFL” songs: Marc Iles says disciplinary panel will meet today to decide our game-swerving punishment, which will be announced “by” tomorrow. But IMO it might leak before then...

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/1 ... -decision/
The club should appeal any punishment, and take legal action against the EFL immediately.

We already have the 12 point deduction, plus having to play the 1st handful of fixtures with the kids which resulted in several heavy defeats - so in effect we have already had a 15- 18 point deduction - even now we are still 15 points off safety with almost a 3rd of the season gone. Any punishment should have been against the previous regime, I'm not sure how the EFL could seriously justify any further points deductions without completely damaging the integrity of the league - any punishment should be suspended used as a threat should anything similar happen again under FV.
The EFL rules might be wrong - but they are still the rules we operate under. There isn't a basis for a legal challenge - "sorry we think the rules are morally wrong" doesn't cut it.

I suspect clubs aren't even able to take a challenge further than the appeals process anyway.

We're going to have to take whatever we get and suck it up.

I personally feel that the Brentford game has long since been done and dusted - but as I said at the time over the summer the indication given to new buyers from the EFL was of a further 3 points. The Doncaster game muddies the water.

But of course we all know the EFL contributed to this mess and in reality a fair decision would be 3 points suspended for Brentford and award Doncaster a 1-0 win.
The club wouldn't be appealing on a vague point of ethics. It could try to appeal any Doncaster punishment on the FA rulebook limiting youth pitch hours. It could also try to appeal the Brentford one on the grounds that "Ken Anderson is all Shaun Harvey's fault", but that's less legally definable. One problem is if the punishment isn't divided per game: if we successfully appeal the Donny bit, they could say the punishment's more for Brentford...

I'm expecting six points now with six points suspended but really, Christ knows.
The bottom line will be "not partaking in matches is against the rules" - we've breached the rules - the why's and wherefores are almost certainly not relevant for a "legal challenge" - because as members of the EFL we agreed to the rules.

I guess there is always a way but I see any challenge as highly, highly unlikely. Suspect we'll appeal and have a reduction of whatever we get.

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Re: League One 2019/20

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Thu Nov 14, 2019 12:29 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 11:47 am
The bottom line will be "not partaking in matches is against the rules" - we've breached the rules - the why's and wherefores are almost certainly not relevant for a "legal challenge" - because as members of the EFL we agreed to the rules.

I guess there is always a way but I see any challenge as highly, highly unlikely. Suspect we'll appeal and have a reduction of whatever we get.
You can appeal. It's in the League's rules. https://www.efl.com/-more/governance/ef ... d-appeals/
94 Disciplinary Appeals

94.1 A party to a Disciplinary Commission may appeal against a final order of the Disciplinary Commission (a ‘Disciplinary Appeal’). A preliminary or procedural ruling by a Disciplinary Commission shall not be subject to a Disciplinary Appeal unless:

94.1.1 such ruling is dispositive (i.e. it amounts to a final resolution of the matter); or

94.1.2 such ruling, though not dispositive of itself, is subsequently incorporated into a final decision.

94.2 A Disciplinary Appeal shall be heard by the League Arbitration Panel in accordance with the provisions of Section 9 of these Regulations, supplemented by the provisions of this Regulation. In the event of any conflict between Section 9 and this Regulation, this Regulation shall prevail.

94.3 Any party wishing to bring a Disciplinary Appeal must, within 14 days of the making of the final order by the Disciplinary Commission (or such other shorter time period as ordered in accordance with the provisions of Regulation 92.5), serve on The League and any other party to the original proceedings:

94.3.1 written notice of the intention to bring a Disciplinary Appeal; and

94.3.2 a statement setting out the grounds of the Disciplinary Appeal.

94.4 Any party wishing to bring a Disciplinary Appeal shall also lodge with The League a deposit of £1,500 in respect of the costs of the Disciplinary Appeal.

94.5 Any party against whom penalties were imposed under Regulation 92 may apply, initially in writing, to the League Arbitration Tribunal for an order that such penalties be suspended pending the resolution of the Disciplinary Appeal. The League Arbitration Tribunal shall determine any such application having regard to the merits of the Disciplinary Appeal and the representations of the other parties.

94.6 No new evidence shall be admitted in respect of a Disciplinary Appeal unless the League Arbitration Panel determines that:

94.6.1 the evidence was not available at the time of the hearing before notwithstanding the exercise of reasonable diligence by the person seeking to introduce it;

94.6.2 the evidence is credible; and

94.6.3 the evidence is relevant.

94.7 Following a Disciplinary Appeal, the League Arbitration Tribunal shall have the power to:

94.7.1 confirm the decision; or

94.7.2 set aside the decision in whole or in part and substitute a new decision; or

94.7.3 order a rehearing before a differently constituted Disciplinary Commission.
Whether we'd win - whether we'd bother trying - is another question.

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Re: League One 2019/20

Post by Harry Genshaw » Thu Nov 14, 2019 5:34 pm

Just on the Doncaster fixture, I read elsewhere that Fleetwood's game this weekend has been postponed due to international call ups which meant they'd have 3 players missing. One of the 3 hasn't started a league game and another has made a total of 8 starts.

On that basis how come the EFL insisted on us playing the Donny game? I wonder with the pretty unique circumstances they just didn't have a clue what to do
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