Summer 2021 Transfer Thread.

[Prufrock]

I'd add Lee in. Good enough to go up is a tough one, I'd say the skeleton below are all good enough provided the missing players are all top realistic quality, and we had strength in depth.

Gilks, Jones, Santos, John, Williams, Lee, Sarc, Dapo.

So essentially a centre back, a striker and a right winger. I'm not talking Van Dijk and Kane, but the league one equivalents. Possible, but unlikely you sign all of those in one window, especially with an unknown but assumed modest budget, so you're probably looking at needing to improve a couple of the others.

So then who do I think are good enough to play in a promotion team in their own right, I guess i.e. who is of similar quality as the Parky team that went up (albeit in a very different style), my finger in the air would be: Santos, John, Williams, Lee and personally I think Dapo though I accept that's in a large part a hunch and plenty wouldn't agree.

[BWFC_Insane]

I'd add Lee in. Good enough to go up is a tough one, I'd say the skeleton below are all good enough provided the missing players are all top realistic quality, and we had strength in depth.

Gilks, Jones, Santos, John, Williams, Lee, Sarc, Dapo.

So essentially a centre back, a striker and a right winger. I'm not talking Van Dijk and Kane, but the league one equivalents. Possible, but unlikely you sign all of those in one window, especially with an unknown but assumed modest budget, so you're probably looking at needing to improve a couple of the others.

So then who do I think are good enough to play in a promotion team in their own right, I guess i.e. who is of similar quality as the Parky team that went up (albeit in a very different style), my finger in the air would be: Santos, John, Williams, Lee and personally I think Dapo though I accept that's in a large part a hunch and plenty wouldn't agree.

I mean it’s very hard to compare different teams but it’s summer, hot and we’ve nothing better to do. If we compare the team that finished the season with the caveat that Parkys team that finished the season across the whole piece may well not have gone up....

Howard v Gilks
Not a lot in it.

Wheater v Santos
Wheater every day of every week. Sorry Rico but I don’t think you are at that level.

Beevers v Baptiste
Beevers again, and by some distance

Morais v Jones
Different positions impossible to really call.

Taylor v John
Reckon Declan gets the nod. If he signs

Spearing v MJ
Tight not a lot in it. MJ for height.

Karacan v Thomason
No idea. Probably at this stage Jen.

Vela v Sarce
Vela. I love Sarce but let’s not kid ourselves.

Le Fondre v Doyle
Tight but Le Fondre has done it at a high level. So gets the nod

Dapo v Madine
Madine again no question.

Then Isgrove is left up against Dervite due to different systems.

Pratley off the bench vs Lee - pretty even.

So that rough analysis shows me work to do. As said above though teams can be and should be greater than sum of their parts. But test is whether that stands up against the better sides.

[GhostoftheBok]

I think the counter of some of that is that the team dynamic and our on pitch relationships seem better after this season than when we started Parky's promotion campaign (as you say, greater than the sum). I think we had some good tools in the tool kit when we went up and that was vital, but I'm not sure the players made each other better. Wheater and Beevers then were better players then than Baptiste and Santos are now, but I think Baptiste and Santos are a better pairing. That's not to say that that will make up for the quality difference, but Baptiste's experience gets the most out of Santos and Santos's physical and technical attributes get Baptiste out of trouble a lot. The same is true of Gilks when you throw him in. His ability to organise that back four improves every player in it and it's one of the reasons I'd probably keep him in for next season, unless we can find someone really outstanding.

If Parky's promotion side played Evatt's 100 times I think Parky's side wins most of the games, but I don't think it's a 90/10 split or anything like a whitewash.

We obviously need to add quality to what we have, but we have something to work with and we start the season with it, rather than having to figure it out as we go. The counter to that is what happens if we make changes? If we brought in a 25-year-old centre back who is levels above Baptiste on an individual level will we lose something from Santos so as to not actual improve the team as a whole? This is where we have to trust the recruitment and coaching and hope that Evatt didn't basically just stumble into something that worked, because obviously that trio of Gilks, Baptiste and Santos was not the plan in the summer.

[LeverEnd]

Interesting stuff. I asked because I have no clue really! Just excited to be back at some games. What worries me is how many games we won narrowly or with a bit of luck, but then at the higher level teams may open up more and be less wary of us. So who knows?
Anyway I'm bored now, bring on the season.

[Worthy4England]

As ghost says, we've come a long way as a Club in 12 months. Watching EFL highlights around March time, the L1 teams are, as people have said, more physical, bit sharper, bit more intelligence etc. I think some of our team might not adjust nor quite make the step up. Mentality can make up for some shortfalls, but as the boxing phrase goes, a good big 'un will always beat a good little 'un if all else is equal.

[Mar]

If Parky's promotion side played Evatt's 100 times I think Parky's side wins most of the games, but I don't think it's a 90/10 split or anything like a whitewash.

I beg to differ on this one. I think that Parky's side would struggle to get the ball back and Evatt's side would just retain possession and keep them out of the game. Although that being said it would depend massively on whether the postman was playing .

[nicholaldo]

I'd add Lee in. Good enough to go up is a tough one, I'd say the skeleton below are all good enough provided the missing players are all top realistic quality, and we had strength in depth.

Gilks, Jones, Santos, John, Williams, Lee, Sarc, Dapo.

So essentially a centre back, a striker and a right winger. I'm not talking Van Dijk and Kane, but the league one equivalents. Possible, but unlikely you sign all of those in one window, especially with an unknown but assumed modest budget, so you're probably looking at needing to improve a couple of the others.

So then who do I think are good enough to play in a promotion team in their own right, I guess i.e. who is of similar quality as the Parky team that went up (albeit in a very different style), my finger in the air would be: Santos, John, Williams, Lee and personally I think Dapo though I accept that's in a large part a hunch and plenty wouldn't agree.

I mean it’s very hard to compare different teams but it’s summer, hot and we’ve nothing better to do. If we compare the team that finished the season with the caveat that Parkys team that finished the season across the whole piece may well not have gone up....

Howard v Gilks
Not a lot in it.

Wheater v Santos
Wheater every day of every week. Sorry Rico but I don’t think you are at that level.

Beevers v Baptiste
Beevers again, and by some distance

Morais v Jones
Different positions impossible to really call.

Taylor v John
Reckon Declan gets the nod. If he signs

Spearing v MJ
Tight not a lot in it. MJ for height.

Karacan v Thomason
No idea. Probably at this stage Jen.

Vela v Sarce
Vela. I love Sarce but let’s not kid ourselves.

Le Fondre v Doyle
Tight but Le Fondre has done it at a high level. So gets the nod

Dapo v Madine
Madine again no question.

Then Isgrove is left up against Dervite due to different systems.

Pratley off the bench vs Lee - pretty even.

So that rough analysis shows me work to do. As said above though teams can be and should be greater than sum of their parts. But test is whether that stands up against the better sides.

Why would you refuse to compare Morais and Jones on the grounds of them playing different positions but then go on to compare Dapo and Madine?

[BWFC_Insane]

I'd add Lee in. Good enough to go up is a tough one, I'd say the skeleton below are all good enough provided the missing players are all top realistic quality, and we had strength in depth.

Gilks, Jones, Santos, John, Williams, Lee, Sarc, Dapo.

So essentially a centre back, a striker and a right winger. I'm not talking Van Dijk and Kane, but the league one equivalents. Possible, but unlikely you sign all of those in one window, especially with an unknown but assumed modest budget, so you're probably looking at needing to improve a couple of the others.

So then who do I think are good enough to play in a promotion team in their own right, I guess i.e. who is of similar quality as the Parky team that went up (albeit in a very different style), my finger in the air would be: Santos, John, Williams, Lee and personally I think Dapo though I accept that's in a large part a hunch and plenty wouldn't agree.

I mean it’s very hard to compare different teams but it’s summer, hot and we’ve nothing better to do. If we compare the team that finished the season with the caveat that Parkys team that finished the season across the whole piece may well not have gone up....

Howard v Gilks
Not a lot in it.

Wheater v Santos
Wheater every day of every week. Sorry Rico but I don’t think you are at that level.

Beevers v Baptiste
Beevers again, and by some distance

Morais v Jones
Different positions impossible to really call.

Taylor v John
Reckon Declan gets the nod. If he signs

Spearing v MJ
Tight not a lot in it. MJ for height.

Karacan v Thomason
No idea. Probably at this stage Jen.

Vela v Sarce
Vela. I love Sarce but let’s not kid ourselves.

Le Fondre v Doyle
Tight but Le Fondre has done it at a high level. So gets the nod

Dapo v Madine
Madine again no question.

Then Isgrove is left up against Dervite due to different systems.

Pratley off the bench vs Lee - pretty even.

So that rough analysis shows me work to do. As said above though teams can be and should be greater than sum of their parts. But test is whether that stands up against the better sides.

Why would you refuse to compare Morais and Jones on the grounds of them playing different positions but then go on to compare Dapo and Madine?

Fair question. In my mind I felt that Gethin a right back playing in a back four at least at the end of the season. Morais a winger converted to a wing back but in a system designed to really make him the focal point. It just felt a bit ‘well how to call this’. At RB it’s Jones in any other position it’s Morais.

Whereas Dapo is nominally a striker as is Madine and whilst Dapo has played out wide for us I felt it was at least on paper more comparable both attacking players kind of thing. But yeah as I did it I realised it was hard as you are comparing two different systems. Even on paper Parky’s 352 was not a true 3 at the back since as said often Morais pushed right on and we shuffled accordingly into more of a traditional four (Dervite came into his own doing this). And I guess Evatts system relied on impetus from full back so we often became more of a 3 at times.

Perhaps a better question is to ask who at their peak from that side would play in Evatts or at least demand a place over what finished last season.

I’d say Wheater, Beevers, Madine, Le Fondre, Vela and Morais. At their league one peak (unfair to compare premiership wheater) all of those wouldn improve our side. They obviously don’t all fit into the current system we play but again perhaps with those players we’d have to change system.

[GhostoftheBok]

The mixed 11 for me, under Evatt, would be: Howard, Jones, Santos, Wheater, John, Williams, Lee, Vela, Morais, Dapo and Madine.

Under Parky it's be different, but those are the players I think Evatt would start.

[Prufrock]

I think it would be Beevers for Wheater but otherwise agree. Underrated Mark. Gone on to play 45 games at Peterborough got promoted from league 1.

I don't agree with everything BWFCi says but I think it's a relatively fair analysis. The only thing I'd disagree with is Santos who I think deserves to be in the conversation with Beevers and Wheater. Don't mind people preferring them but I don't think it's a slam dunk. They were excellent for us but they played in a team designed to suit them. Rico for 2/3rds of last season at least was head and shoulders the best centre back in league 2, and playing within himself doing it.

He has to go on and prove it at a higher level, but if he can keep up the trajectory he's a Champo player. Big if of course

[Harry Genshaw]

Based on iFollow v seeing them in the flesh, there's still no way I'd have Spearing ahead of MJ or Vela ahead of Sarc.

[BWFC_Insane]

I think it would be Beevers for Wheater but otherwise agree. Underrated Mark. Gone on to play 45 games at Peterborough got promoted from league 1.

I don't agree with everything BWFCi says but I think it's a relatively fair analysis. The only thing I'd disagree with is Santos who I think deserves to be in the conversation with Beevers and Wheater. Don't mind people preferring them but I don't think it's a slam dunk. They were excellent for us but they played in a team designed to suit them. Rico for 2/3rds of last season at least was head and shoulders the best centre back in league 2, and playing within himself doing it.

He has to go on and prove it at a higher level, but if he can keep up the trajectory he's a Champo player. Big if of course

Santos was very very good. In league two. And still had games against physical centre forwards where he was dominated. I like him but comparing him to Beevers or Wheater? Not a chance for me. Perhaps this season he will step up and make it a comparison worth making. But at this stage, not for me.

[GhostoftheBok]

Wheater and Beevers are both better pure defenders, but neither has Santos' ability with the ball at feet. Santos defensively is a poor man's Zat Knight at the minute, with his 50p head and tendency to get drawn in, but he's the best ball-playing centre back we've had since Cahill left. In Evatt's system that distribution and ability to carry the ball into midfield is essential. If we can coach his defending then he can play Championship football for sure, but I agree it's a big if right now. He was easily good enough at defending for league two, but he needs to step it up to come up the leagues with us. Wheavers, as I'm now going to start calling them, suited Parky; but he didn't need them to play.

[Spartan2]

I don't think IE would want any of parky's players except for Morais and Beevers. Christ that parky team was shite, you could watch for hours before you'd see more than six consecutive passes. it worked, but I'm so glad we've got IE and a decent owner now. Vela? Spearing? fecking hell, you could go to your local park and find more talented footballers.

[GhostoftheBok]

Back on the topic of transfers, I've been having a look at the available players and have realised I have absolutely no clue what represents a "realistic" transfer target for us at the moment. I think we're one of the more attractive outfits in League One, but I'm not sure how to quantify that in the market these days - especially with wage caps etc.

I'm wondering what other people think is possible this summer. Who do you think is the best free agent we could realistically attract this summer?

[officer_dibble]

And as a sub question, where should we be targeting our budget? Goalkeeper (think it’s a backup we want so no). Left back undoubtedly. Centre half or are we happy with our lot? Attacking midfielder? Centre forward?

[officer_dibble]

I think Keiron Lee and Dapo are the level we should be pitching at - one a decent championship level player and one with room to become one, by not a raw kid.

[Worthy4England]

Interesting comparison and not too unreasonable. It is hard comparing the two teams as the ball often seemed to bypass the MF under Parky and as others have said Jones/Morais and Dapo/Madine aren't really match ups. You wouldn't ask Madine to play same way as Dapo, nor vice versa. I think Parky got the best out of Madine who is really a good L1 striker, who had a decent 28 game run in the Chumpo. I might be tempted to switch the up-front match up to Doyle/Madine and Dapo/Le Fondre, that probably gives Le Fondre a win and Madine at League 1 is a much closer call to Doyle.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

A propos of nothing much, here's the current squad's experience in England's top three tiers.
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Screenshot 2021-06-01 at 15.06.40.png (100.26 KiB) Viewed 1964 times

[BWFC_Insane]

Didn’t know sarce had played so many games in league one.