creeeeeeeekeeeeeet

[TANGODANCER]

On another note - what a terrible start for England. Put India in to bat in what are very challenging conditions at Lords - 120-0.

Awful.

Don't know what this "report" is about, but it sure ain't me. ?

[Worthy4England]

The umpires and ground-staff are not meteorologists. Their task, in a 5 day match, is to keep the condition of the ground as equitable as possible for both sides, notwithstanding the wicket changes over that period.

Back in my day (granted 60 years ago) the job of the groundstaff was to make the wicket as favourable as possible to the home team, depending of their skill sets.

Well, of course it's that too. But whilst that might favour the home side as they have insight into what the wicket might look like / do over 5 days, it's still equitable for both sides. It's the way you pick your team that's inequitable...

[jimbo]

On another note - what a terrible start for England. Put India in to bat in what are very challenging conditions at Lords - 120-0.

Awful.

The commentators ramble on about "fine bowling", but India are dealing with it easily, 126-0 right now. We're in trouble.

I’ll forgive us this. We’re missing Broad, Archer, Woakes and Stokes. No surprise that there’s a drop off in quality after Anderson and Robinson. No way Curran should be relied upon as a first change bowler, and still not convinced by Wood’s effectiveness at home. Really hard to control things when your 3rd and 4th bowlers release any pressure that has built up.

[Worthy4England]

We've just started the collapse...Go Jimmy.

[jimbo]

On another note - what a terrible start for England. Put India in to bat in what are very challenging conditions at Lords - 120-0.

Awful.

The commentators ramble on about "fine bowling", but India are dealing with it easily, 126-0 right now. We're in trouble.

I’ll forgive us this. We’re missing Broad, Archer, Woakes and Stokes. No surprise that there’s a drop off in quality after Anderson and Robinson. No way Curran should be relied upon as a first change bowler, and still not convinced by Wood’s effectiveness at home. Really hard to control things when your 3rd and 4th bowlers release any pressure that has built up.

[Worthy4England]

On another note - what a terrible start for England. Put India in to bat in what are very challenging conditions at Lords - 120-0.

Awful.

The commentators ramble on about "fine bowling", but India are dealing with it easily, 126-0 right now. We're in trouble.

I’ll forgive us this. We’re missing Broad, Archer, Woakes and Stokes. No surprise that there’s a drop off in quality after Anderson and Robinson. No way Curran should be relied upon as a first change bowler, and still not convinced by Wood’s effectiveness at home. Really hard to control things when your 3rd and 4th bowlers release any pressure that has built up.

Yes to all this Jimbo. I'm not really rating Curran as anything better than no 5 bowler. Woody, bless, we need him for the Ashes methinks...

[BWFC_Insane]

@Worthy - the figures for the WTC final were encouraging though you wonder whether that was a bit of a one off novelty. Thopugh I don't mind the idea at all. Over the past decade there have been a few reports that test audiences are in decline worldwide mainly driven by declines in India and Pakistan but that's creeping elsewhere SA and even I think Australia.

As for kids cricket I meant spectating rather than playing. I played limited overs as a kid but in terms of watching I was introduced to the long form. One day was very much an afterthought I think till maybe mid 80's or early 90's at least in my memory. I guess my issue is that starting to watch current T20 is not necessarily the entry point to more cricket. I fear kids see it as a thing in itself. That's whats seemingly happened in India with the IPL etc. And I fear elsewhere that's what we'll see. I guess its like trickle down economics everyone instinctively for decades believes it works yet there is zero evidence it actually does. The theory that an exciting entry point to cricket watching will hook kids is sound. It makes sense. But I'm less convinced that in my experience it really works. I think when you watch the hundred for example (but you could include any short form 20 overs tournament) you can see why it will interest kids - similar length to a football match, incidents move the game on, you can see who is 'winning and losing' but things can turn very quickly. Its exciting. The joys of a test match are similar but just more drawn out - the joy and complexity is greater and that's why its the format we should protect. But I'm not convinced that the entry point does 'trickle down'.

I think your points are absolutely right re football and Americanisation but I think there are some fundamental differences. Football is universally popular it has a singular format (rules) that majority of the civilised world accept and as a sport it thrives and seems to grow its audience. So changes proposed by yanks are unnecessary and not likely to ever be something that is adopted. They are also changes that change fundamentals of the game. I don't want to do that. I just want to tweak the test match experience to make it more engaging to maximise the chance of getting more hooked on it. I think there are things like structure (WTC starts to address this) of competition, pitch preparation and ball choice that are more fundamental and in some cases more difficult to see anyone wanting to do. But I do think a challenge to the format exists - it cannot bury its head. At least not in my view.

[BWFC_Insane]

On another note - what a terrible start for England. Put India in to bat in what are very challenging conditions at Lords - 120-0.

Awful.

The commentators ramble on about "fine bowling", but India are dealing with it easily, 126-0 right now. We're in trouble.

I’ll forgive us this. We’re missing Broad, Archer, Woakes and Stokes. No surprise that there’s a drop off in quality after Anderson and Robinson. No way Curran should be relied upon as a first change bowler, and still not convinced by Wood’s effectiveness at home. Really hard to control things when your 3rd and 4th bowlers release any pressure that has built up.

Bowlers who haven't played any first class cricket for a year or more too. Its understandable if not still disappointing. For me all of them have bowled varying degrees of 'too short' and even Jimmy falls into that category at times. I rather fear if we'd been put into bat we'd be 150 all out against India's attack in these conditions.

[Worthy4England]

It's a strange old world, Google. Because all I can see are reports trumpeting the viewership for tests - the WTC link, also contained the India v England published numbers at the bottom of the article...Australia boasted big numbers for the recent India series...now that of course could be in part due to the fact that three days of every test match are played on generally working days, so people are wagging it at home, avoiding COVID...60% of the product is shown whilst most people are at work....Not many other sports in that category (Horse Racing springs to mind) - That fundamental isn't going to change unless we move to 4 day over two weekends (I'd rather we didn't).

Chess isn't "exciting". it is however "intriguing". It's not for everyone (certainly not I), but it has its place, I appreciate why it's there. I see that in Test Cricket, I don't think its purpose is to create "universal appeal". There's the "arguments" that rage over Rugby League v Rugby Union - I don't want one to become the other, they're different games, both of which have their strengths.

[Worthy4England]

Anyhow, the collapse is now taking root...

[Worthy4England]

I'm getting the phrase "an innings and...."

[TANGODANCER]

Like I said earlier, we're in trouble. An innings lead for the loss of two wickets.....mmmmm

[Prufrock]

The umpires and ground-staff are not meteorologists. Their task, in a 5 day match, is to keep the condition of the ground as equitable as possible for both sides, notwithstanding the wicket changes over that period. It's relatively easy to say in hindsight, that it was only 2 minutes of light rain, but if that doesn't transpire and it's 2 minutes of heavy rain, that can have a more significant impact. Once the umpires have taken the decision, to go off (or not start), then they need to get it covered quickly as possible. It doesn't take much rain to make a bowlers run-up dangerous, at which point, they'd wait even longer for it to dry out. Which no one cares about in short form, as the whole ethos is to hit them for six anyhow.

In short form, there's probably less of a problem, as both sides more likely to be impacted by any prevalent weather conditions.

If we don't wake up and do something about it test cricket will die. It will die with us. Nobody is saying just bowl in dangerous conditions or whatever. But why when going off at the start of a day for a light shower can't players and umpires wait close to the playing area so that if it stops play can resume immediately should conditions allow? Instead it takes ages for players to trundle back from the dressing room etc...

There are basics that are just wrong right now. I'd also argue that test cricket is partly dealing with conditions that may not be equitable for both sides. I think that's just something we have to learn to deal with if we are to see the game evolve and remain popular.

Where are they going to wait? and for how long? Do they just stand under brollies around the boundary? Once covers are on, it's likely to take longer to remove them, than it takes to get from the changing rooms to the boundary edge. Not every game is about "rush" and "action" and test cricket's one of them.

Of course dealing with conditions is part of the game. I said that myself. But keeping it as equitable as possible for both sides should still be the goal.

As for the notion that Test Cricket is going to die, Test attendances in the UK have been increasing steadily since the 1980's and increased every decade since. Of course there are larger grounds now, and I doubt anyone is going back to 1970's and before when they used to cram folks on the outfield round the boundary rope. Test Matches were generally over-subscribed anyhow. I'm all for having alternative forms of the game, although they don't appeal to me. Surprisingly enough, probably the ground that has the highest liklihood of wham, bam results cricket (Headingly) - the trend has been downwards. I doubt many "youngsters" would understand "Test Cricket" if they played 15 hours a day in all weather. If I was trying to get a youngster interested, I wouldn't take them to a Test Match.

Fully accept the broader point, it's the little piddly delays that lose half an hour that bother me. This morning it honestly rained for about 3 mins and it knocked half an hour. Maybe a 5 min time waiting on the outfield- if it's not stopped carry on as they do now.

Generally though that was a class day. My first day at a test, would recommend to anyone. Can tick "Jimmy test wicket" off the list. Museum at lunch was great too. Fair feck* to the India openers. Didn't do what we hoped, but they batted so well.

[Worthy4England]

^^ It's a bit strange, but one of the best Test Matches I saw (or maybe didn't) was listening to Bumblè pour fourth, under the stands at Lords....

[TANGODANCER]

Another thread about schools, combined with cricket reminded me how lucky we were to have a cricket loving teacher in junior school. He took us to watch Len Hutton and Cyril Washbrook at Old Trafford when Lancs played Yorkshire, and a day out at Lower Pools when the great West Indians were there on an exhibition match. I got autographs of Ramadin and Valentine (long lost sadly)....Happy days.

[Worthy4England]

Cyril sold me my first proper bat at Tyldesley and Washbrook in Manchester....

[BWFC_Insane]

Seeing England take 2 wickets in 2 overs at the start of day 2 just fills me with dread.

Whats everyone's guess for England's first innings? I'm going 183 all out.

[Worthy4England]

Seeing England take 2 wickets in 2 overs at the start of day 2 just fills me with dread.

Whats everyone's guess for England's first innings? I'm going 183 all out.

Talk about spinning a positive!

[BWFC_Insane]

Seeing England take 2 wickets in 2 overs at the start of day 2 just fills me with dread.

Whats everyone's guess for England's first innings? I'm going 183 all out.

Talk about spinning a positive!

I'd rather batting looked easy this morning because at least then you might say England can bat long enough to get a draw. But we'll see how it goes. Arguably last chance saloon for Sibley and maybe even one or two others.

[TANGODANCER]

Seeing England take 2 wickets in 2 overs at the start of day 2 just fills me with dread.

Whats everyone's guess for England's first innings? I'm going 183 all out.

Mr Negative strikes again...