creeeeeeeekeeeeeet

[Prufrock]

Buttlers was no better. Had to stretch to get the outside edge there. It really is very poor test match batting. If I recall, Pope's previous exit was a howler too.

Just too many batsmen not up to it mentally nor technically.

The bowling, there ain't many teams got a bowling attack that could regularly get teams out for the runs we score, and when I add into the equation that they can't concentrate for longer than 20 overs before they start shelling catches, I have some sympathy. Can't look at bowling stats in isolation of catches dropped and call a reasonable conclusion.

I don't think the issue is with any of the bowlers individually in terms of talent or application, it's just they're too similar especially away from home with the injuries we have.

Agreed on dropped catches, and I think we all agree the batting is the big f*cking problem. Doesn't matter what else you do when there's only three of the feck* you'd be relatively happy would get into double figures.

[BWFC_Insane]

Buttlers was no better. Had to stretch to get the outside edge there. It really is very poor test match batting. If I recall, Pope's previous exit was a howler too.

Just too many batsmen not up to it mentally nor technically.

The bowling, there ain't many teams got a bowling attack that could regularly get teams out for the runs we score, and when I add into the equation that they can't concentrate for longer than 20 overs before they start shelling catches, I have some sympathy. Can't look at bowling stats in isolation of catches dropped and call a reasonable conclusion.

I don't think the issue is with any of the bowlers individually in terms of talent or application, it's just they're too similar especially away from home with the injuries we have.

Agreed on dropped catches, and I think we all agree the batting is the big f*cking problem. Doesn't matter what else you do when there's only three of the feck* you'd be relatively happy would get into double figures.

3? Not a chance. Root. Maybe stokes. Rest are shocking. Malan did well today. Averages under bloody 30.

Let’s not kid ourselves. 1,2,3 and 5 aren’t even particularly great first class players let alone test ones.

[Worthy4England]

End of the day you can talk about ability all you like. And that’s a long term fix. But I’m not having it that we have the correct mental application and attitude. I’m not having it that many of these players couldn’t have worked on their games to improve them.

The same technique that fails time and time again is just repeated. Where is the application. The desire to improve.

I think on top of being an poor side they are also lazy and mentally weak. And that’s why I think anger and indignation is justified towards the players. Bring them home now. In ridicule and disgrace. They don’t deserve more caps. Shameful.

Oh, I've no doubt mental side is fcuked too. I just have that as one vital ability of a test player. If they don't have that (and they're not showing much at the minute) they're fooked.

I'm not having Buttler as a victim. Bought in for his batting he's not been very good either. A test player needs to be able to bat in adversity not just take advantage as a flat track bully with tired bowlers.

[Worthy4England]

Buttlers was no better. Had to stretch to get the outside edge there. It really is very poor test match batting. If I recall, Pope's previous exit was a howler too.

Just too many batsmen not up to it mentally nor technically.

The bowling, there ain't many teams got a bowling attack that could regularly get teams out for the runs we score, and when I add into the equation that they can't concentrate for longer than 20 overs before they start shelling catches, I have some sympathy. Can't look at bowling stats in isolation of catches dropped and call a reasonable conclusion.

I don't think the issue is with any of the bowlers individually in terms of talent or application, it's just they're too similar especially away from home with the injuries we have.

Agreed on dropped catches, and I think we all agree the batting is the big f*cking problem. Doesn't matter what else you do when there's only three of the feck* you'd be relatively happy would get into double figures.

TBF, as others have said, I envisaged us opening with Archer and Wood, but that's no guarantee either, with no warm ups as it's a different length. When we've had success over there it's been with a varied attack. We have picked for this outing 5 clones.

[Prufrock]

Buttlers was no better. Had to stretch to get the outside edge there. It really is very poor test match batting. If I recall, Pope's previous exit was a howler too.

Just too many batsmen not up to it mentally nor technically.

The bowling, there ain't many teams got a bowling attack that could regularly get teams out for the runs we score, and when I add into the equation that they can't concentrate for longer than 20 overs before they start shelling catches, I have some sympathy. Can't look at bowling stats in isolation of catches dropped and call a reasonable conclusion.

I don't think the issue is with any of the bowlers individually in terms of talent or application, it's just they're too similar especially away from home with the injuries we have.

Agreed on dropped catches, and I think we all agree the batting is the big f*cking problem. Doesn't matter what else you do when there's only three of the feck* you'd be relatively happy would get into double figures.

3? Not a chance. Root. Maybe stokes. Rest are shocking. Malan did well today. Averages under bloody 30.

Let’s not kid ourselves. 1,2,3 and 5 aren’t even particularly great first class players let alone test ones.

I'm not going to fight too hard for Malan, though I think there's a test player in there and at least in Australia I'd take a bet on evens for him getting to double figures. Assume you mean 6 not 5 above or you're being v harsh on Ben

Also think there's a test opener in Hameed, of the three we've tried regularly over the past few years I'd back him the most. But he's got to go and do it.

Ollie Pope is Danny Guthrie to Joe Root's Gerrard.

Slightly suprised they're batting again. Two goes at us under the lights, no way we're lasting anything close to 2 days. On the other hand if Malan and Root are there in the morning in Day 5 a draw is still possible.

How hard to we try to get them out?! Just scatter to the ropes lads!

[Prufrock]

Buttlers was no better. Had to stretch to get the outside edge there. It really is very poor test match batting. If I recall, Pope's previous exit was a howler too.

Just too many batsmen not up to it mentally nor technically.

The bowling, there ain't many teams got a bowling attack that could regularly get teams out for the runs we score, and when I add into the equation that they can't concentrate for longer than 20 overs before they start shelling catches, I have some sympathy. Can't look at bowling stats in isolation of catches dropped and call a reasonable conclusion.

I don't think the issue is with any of the bowlers individually in terms of talent or application, it's just they're too similar especially away from home with the injuries we have.

Agreed on dropped catches, and I think we all agree the batting is the big f*cking problem. Doesn't matter what else you do when there's only three of the feck* you'd be relatively happy would get into double figures.

TBF, as others have said, I envisaged us opening with Archer and Wood, but that's no guarantee either, with no warm ups as it's a different length. When we've had success over there it's been with a varied attack. We have picked for this outing 5 clones.

Aye, including me tbf. Add in Olly Stone too. They had the plan but injuries have knackered that plan. There's a problem with producing top end pace players (I don't remember reading another name who can even get up there never mind is any good). Plus no spinner either. Yeesh.

[Worthy4England]

If the second of Root and Malan went just on scheduled close on day 5, I think if I was umpire, I'd let them have the extra half hour...

[Prufrock]

especially with no Leach!

[Prufrock]

Just seen Pope's dismissal. Adding that to his second in the first test that's two of the worst back to back dismissals from a batsman I've ever seen. Jimmy would be unhappy with those.

[BWFC_Insane]

End of the day you can talk about ability all you like. And that’s a long term fix. But I’m not having it that we have the correct mental application and attitude. I’m not having it that many of these players couldn’t have worked on their games to improve them.

The same technique that fails time and time again is just repeated. Where is the application. The desire to improve.

I think on top of being an poor side they are also lazy and mentally weak. And that’s why I think anger and indignation is justified towards the players. Bring them home now. In ridicule and disgrace. They don’t deserve more caps. Shameful.

Oh, I've no doubt mental side is fcuked too. I just have that as one vital ability of a test player. If they don't have that (and they're not showing much at the minute) they're fooked.

I'm not having Buttler as a victim. Bought in for his batting he's not been very good either. A test player needs to be able to bat in adversity not just take advantage as a flat track bully with tired bowlers.

He’s not a victim. He’s just a player who wouldn’t be in this side in normal circumstances. In a side that made big scores he could be like a Gilchrist. But could and would isn’t relevant.

[Prufrock]

Hahaha I don't care I still enjoyed that.

[Bruce Rioja]

Buttlers was no better. Had to stretch to get the outside edge there. It really is very poor test match batting. If I recall, Pope's previous exit was a howler too.

I'm cutting a Buttler a little slack in that although it was horrendously executed, at least you could see what he was hoping to do.

The one that pisses me off outside off stump is when our lot just hang the bat out there, thus risking a nick in return for potentially absolutely nothing.

Pope on the other hand..... I really do need to stop watching it back now

[Worthy4England]

Buttlers was no better. Had to stretch to get the outside edge there. It really is very poor test match batting. If I recall, Pope's previous exit was a howler too.

I'm cutting a Buttler a little slack in that although it was horrendously executed, at least you could see what he was hoping to do.

The one that pisses me off outside off stump is when our lot just hang the bat out there, thus risking

a nick in return for potentially absolutely nothing.

Pope on the other hand..... I really do need to stop watching it back now

Yes second absolutely fcuked up shot by Pope...he didn't dangle his bat on the last two, he tried to play (I think on both) to leg. One a shit hook, the second a chip to short square....so cut it out and improve your drive!

Buttler chased a drive that wouldn't have hit a third set. If he hits it goes 4. But not what a test bat needs to do at that juncture. It's not getting you out on the leave...

[BWFC_Insane]

Buttlers was no better. Had to stretch to get the outside edge there. It really is very poor test match batting. If I recall, Pope's previous exit was a howler too.

I'm cutting a Buttler a little slack in that although it was horrendously executed, at least you could see what he was hoping to do.

The one that pisses me off outside off stump is when our lot just hang the bat out there, thus risking

a nick in return for potentially absolutely nothing.

Pope on the other hand..... I really do need to stop watching it back now

Yes second absolutely fcuked up shot by Pope...he didn't dangle his bat on the last two, he tried to play (I think on both) to leg. One a shit hook, the second a chip to short square....so cut it out and improve your drive!

Buttler chased a drive that wouldn't have hit a third set. If he hits it goes 4. But not what a test bat needs to do at that juncture. It's not getting you out on the leave...

Buttler has shown he has the capacity to hang around and get 40. I think he’s probably done that plenty alongside get out for bugger all plenty.

The only way he makes sense in the test team is if he’s given licence to play his aggressive inventive game. Otherwise I think we should pick someone else.

His game clearly isn’t suited to such a fragile order so pick someone else. I don’t really think Jos is a good pick to just hang around and build scores. It’s just not his game. And there are other options.

[jimbo]

Time for the fun to start! How long until Starc gets Burns?

[Worthy4England]

But once you start with that narrative, you start saying Vince is great but this just isn't his game coz they don't have powerplays...

In a test team, you should be judged by test standard.

[Worthy4England]

Time for the fun to start! How long until Starc gets Burns?

Not sure we'll have long enough to reply.

[Worthy4England]

Time for the fun to start! How long until Starc gets Burns?

Not sure we'll have long enough to reply.

Other end, but on the money

[jimbo]

I didn’t think it was possible for our openers to get worse but they’re really trying.

[Worthy4England]

Just 744 more balls to face!