January 2022 Transfer Thread

[BWFC_Insane]

I’m not asking for a new manager. I’m asking for players who can defend. It’s not too hard. Some aggressive, physical, big and strong centre halves who concentrate for 90 minutes. Like most of this division has. We don’t have one.

The thing is, you might then be looking for another manager; because to ask for that in an Evatt side you are asking for an aggressive, physical, big, strong, solid on the back foot centre half - who can also bring the ball out and play under pressure. Which sounds remarkably like the kinds of player that transfer to the Premier League rather than League One.

I'm not objecting to what you want, but Evatt isn't signing a centre half who can't play with the ball and to find one who can also do everything else on our budgets would be a minor miracle. I know you object when people tell you that and you talk about how we shouldn't care about this or that in a defender, but Evatt clearly does.

Ian Evatt would sign Tim Ream over David Wheater. That's the reality.

None of our defenders are especially good with the ball. This line of ‘odd attempt to excuse our defending’ falls apart as soon as I mention Will Aimless. Hopeless on the ball. We didn’t sign him to play out from the back. Johnston maybe but even he is limited and a poor man’s Ream who also was a myth.

If Evatt doesn’t think you need defenders who can defend then he will over time learn. And won’t be a premiership manager for a long long time. Because objectively that line of thinking is utter nonsense.

[GhostoftheBok]

If Evatt doesn’t think you need defenders who can defend then he will over time learn. And won’t be a premiership manager for a long long time. Because objectively that line of thinking is utter nonsense.

He doesn't, he just thinks that his centre backs should be spending more time on the ball than making clearances - which when we are playing okay is true. Campo was shocking at centre back for Allardyce, because he also couldn't defend in the way Sam needed. We moved him into midfield and he was superb for us. We had centre backs do better who would never have played centre back for Real Madrid in a million years, because what Campo needed to do there was massively different.

If George Graham's Arsenal had played Mascherano at centre back it would have been laughably bad - he was excellent for Barca there.

You want Evatt to sign players to compensate for his system not working, rather than to make his system work. It seems unlikely.

[GhostoftheBok]

Anyway, we've done this to death.

Hopefully we improve the squad enough to pick up points and at least stay up - but preferably give us something the cheer.

Please with Charles. More to come, hopefully.

[GhostoftheBok]

A lot of people on social media are really, really hopeful we're after Dan Crowley.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Also someone who isn’t cup tied.

…which in this competition’s case implies someone outside League One/Two.

[BWFC_Insane]

If Evatt doesn’t think you need defenders who can defend then he will over time learn. And won’t be a premiership manager for a long long time. Because objectively that line of thinking is utter nonsense.

He doesn't, he just thinks that his centre backs should be spending more time on the ball than making clearances - which when we are playing okay is true. Campo was shocking at centre back for Allardyce, because he also couldn't defend in the way Sam needed. We moved him into midfield and he was superb for us. We had centre backs do better who would never have played centre back for Real Madrid in a million years, because what Campo needed to do there was massively different.

If George Graham's Arsenal had played Mascherano at centre back it would have been laughably bad - he was excellent for Barca there.

You want Evatt to sign players to compensate for his system not working, rather than to make his system work. It seems unlikely.

However well you play or however much you keep the ball if you can’t defend basic situations it’s all for nought. This is true at every level of the game you care to look. Not many teams win the premiership without an absolutely solid back four. Who when needed can all defend. The likes of Terry, Kompany, Bruce, Bould, Adams, Cahill, Stam etc etc centre halves of different styles but they all could defend like their lives depended on it.

If team think lobbing a couple of crosses in will likely get them a goal against us then they will happily concede possession.

I also don’t agree that Evatt thinks we don’t need solid defenders. I don’t even think that’s the aim. He’s remarked several times about doing the basics right and defending our box. He knows. I think he’s just again recruited poorly.

[Worthy4England]

Also someone who isn’t cup tied.

…which in this competition’s case implies someone outside League One/Two.

Do you have to have played in the tourney? Coz I don't think Crowley has...

[officer_dibble]

Also someone who isn’t cup tied.

…which in this competition’s case implies someone outside League One/Two.

Or Cat 1 Academy over 18?

[Worthy4England]

I also don’t agree that Evatt thinks we don’t need solid defenders. I don’t even think that’s the aim. He’s remarked several times about doing the basics right and defending our box. He knows. I think he’s just again recruited poorly.

He has and mentioned winning your personal duels as a "basic" so I don't think that's in doubt...

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Also someone who isn’t cup tied.

…which in this competition’s case implies someone outside League One/Two.

Do you have to have played in the tourney? Coz I don't think Crowley has...

started for Cheltenham v Exeter, 5 Oct

[Worthy4England]

Also someone who isn’t cup tied.

…which in this competition’s case implies someone outside League One/Two.

Do you have to have played in the tourney? Coz I don't think Crowley has...

started for Cheltenham v Exeter

Duh...didn't show up on whoscored...anyhow he's left Cheltenham....had a good game v us

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Also someone who isn’t cup tied.

…which in this competition’s case implies someone outside League One/Two.

Or Cat 1 Academy over 18?

But presumably having not played in this comp this season

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Also someone who isn’t cup tied.

…which in this competition’s case implies someone outside League One/Two.

Do you have to have played in the tourney? Coz I don't think Crowley has...

started for Cheltenham v Exeter

Duh...didn't show up on whoscored...anyhow he's left Cheltenham....had a good game v us

Not all stats sites now even bother to count the Sherpa Sh!tshow these days, but Soccerbase does. I remember the lad - looked like a player who wanted the ball - but he has been a bit peripatetic. I dug into his story shortly after that game, will see if I can find it

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

I've noticed the No. 28 from yesterday is out of contract in January. I'd need to see more of him but if his performance yesterday is his standard he might be worth looking at.

His name's Dan Crowley and he's only 24. Here's all about him:

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/dan-cro ... ler/223225

Good enough to be poached by Arsenal (from Villa) at 15 on Wenger's personal insistence. Played a couple of seasons in Holland (an Evatt-pleaser) before Birmingham signed him for £700k. They loaned him to Hull, where he won the league, then released him; he had trials at Cheltenham and Gillingham over summer. In all he's played 47 tier-three, 41 tier-two and 61 Dutch top-flight games.

One thing to note is that he hasn't completed 90 minutes in the third tier since 2016, when he was on loan at Oxford from Arsenal. He appeared in 22 of a possible 25 league games during his Jan-Jun loan at Hull earlier this year, but only six were starts and he didn't finish any of those. Cheltenham have started him seven league games and subbed him in all of them. Fitness? "Seeing the game out"?

But what does he do when he's on? Well, the following averages from WhoScored are per 90 minutes rather than per game. He averages 38.2 passes per game – more than Sheehan (34) and Sarce (33.8 ) but fewer than MJ (44.3) and all the recent members of our back four/five in our possession-hungry team; if Crowley's playing at 10 he'll see less ball than our back lads.

Once on the ball, he's very tidy - 89.3% pass accuracy, comparing well with our top lad Sheehan's 87.1% – but averages a Cheltenham-topping 2.1 key passes per game (ie those creating a chance - an assist if converted; our top lads are Brocky 2, Tomo 1.8, Dapo 1.7).

He also averages 1.1 tackles per game, same as Sheehan and Lee (Tomo averages 2, MJ & Sarce 1.4), plus 0.4 interceptions (MJ 0.8, Sheehan & Sarce 0.6, Lee 0.4).

So, from a quick look at those numbers, I'd say he's worth considering - or at least a deeper look from Brommers...

[GhostoftheBok]

Interestingly, in terms of timing, Fossey had a trial at Rotherham in the summer but they turned him down.

[brommers95]

A lot of people on social media are really, really hopeful we're after Dan Crowley.

Confirmation that he’s not staying with Cheltenham so is now a free agent.

Technically excellent as we witnessed in November but there are big concerns around his character and work ethic. We’re crying out for a creative no.10 though and he’s a free agent with recent games under his belt so you’d imagine he could come in and start from day one.

[Prufrock]

If Evatt doesn’t think you need defenders who can defend then he will over time learn. And won’t be a premiership manager for a long long time. Because objectively that line of thinking is utter nonsense.

He doesn't, he just thinks that his centre backs should be spending more time on the ball than making clearances - which when we are playing okay is true. Campo was shocking at centre back for Allardyce, because he also couldn't defend in the way Sam needed. We moved him into midfield and he was superb for us. We had centre backs do better who would never have played centre back for Real Madrid in a million years, because what Campo needed to do there was massively different.

If George Graham's Arsenal had played Mascherano at centre back it would have been laughably bad - he was excellent for Barca there.

You want Evatt to sign players to compensate for his system not working, rather than to make his system work. It seems unlikely.

However well you play or however much you keep the ball if you can’t defend basic situations it’s all for nought. This is true at every level of the game you care to look. Not many teams win the premiership without an absolutely solid back four. Who when needed can all defend. The likes of Terry, Kompany, Bruce, Bould, Adams, Cahill, Stam etc etc centre halves of different styles but they all could defend like their lives depended on it.

If team think lobbing a couple of crosses in will likely get them a goal against us then they will happily concede possession.

I also don’t agree that Evatt thinks we don’t need solid defenders. I don’t even think that’s the aim. He’s remarked several times about doing the basics right and defending our box. He knows. I think he’s just again recruited poorly.

I think you're at crossed purposes for what "good defending" is. I mean firstly I think it's pretty axiomatic that Evatt thinks we need defenders who can defend. Even Coyle would've agreed with that. But it depends on what being able to defend means.

Firstly, we're not dealing in absolutes. All defenders have strengths and weaknesses, some more exaggerated than others. Some are very good at defending the box and defending crosses. Wheevers were archetypes of that, they'd happily head things away defending a clean sheet 10 men behind the ball until the cows came home. In a Parky team which especially away from home was set up to keep the point you start with and go from there, they were perfect. Both in the PFA team of the year. And a big set-piece threat. If you'd put any of our current centre-backs in that team then it would be an absolute horrorshow (coaching maybe would improve them somewhat, but e.g. current Santos? Christ). I don't think anyone seriously disputes that.

As I say though, they aren't absolutes. Santos and Aimson aren't 0/10 for defending crosses. I think they did pretty well first half. For the goal Aimson got fouled at least once and John got doubled up on the back stick (and I think Dixon has to affect that). But without a midfield they had ~65% possession I think and we had to defend a lot of crosses. That being a relative weakness, those players were always going to concede goals today realistically I think. We were pushed back and had to defend more like a Parky team, and they're not up to that.

But that isn't the plan. Evatt's plan in contrast is IMO more risky, but comes with potentially greater rewards, and requires a full XI up to it. You can't cover for weaknesses in the same way. The plan is to dominate possession and territory, play in their half and limit them to unstructured/unplanned counters where our defenders can defend 1v1. Santos is phenomenal at that. In the same way as above, if Wheevers had been our CB partnership in Evatt's team last year, I don't think we'd have got anywhere near going up. David Wheater couldn't defend 1v1 on the halfway line with his fullback overlapping to their byeline.

It's also where I think you are at crossed-purposes on what being "good on the ball" means for a defender. I don't think Evatt is demanding (though it would be nice) that they can all step out, ping 70 yard balls, commit people. But he does insist that they are all comfortable receiving the ball under pressure, and using it simply but positively 20, 30 times a game. Wheevers wouldn't be given the ball like that, and if they felt under pressure and hoiked it, that would be positively approved of. Evatt's gameplan is different.

Which is why for me the main issue today was the midfield. You just can't dominate the ball with a centre back, a kid and a (shit) forward as a midfield three. So the defence had to defend far more crosses than they're capable of. Not just that they had the ball, but they had it in good areas, and the CBs weren't capable of defending like that. As above it's relative. They can defend maybe 10-20 crosses and be fine. You ask them to defend twice that, they're going to make mistakes. If the gameplan is working (and you need their other attributes to make it work) then they won;t have to. But with that midfield...

The whole team is bad at defending in deep wide areas though, we're so, so bad at stopping crosses coming in. I know their RW was lightening, and AImson/Santos defended it poorly, but it's insane how easily that cross came in. I think that's because the plan is to not have to defend in those areas, but the midfield fails and...

People have noticed that a lot of our better results come when we have "less" possession (i.e. 50-60 or so rather than 70+). I think that's right, but an underlooked point is that it matters where that possession is. I'd be astounded if those games came where the other side had a good amount of possession in our half. They aren't games where we defend our box all game. It tends to be where the other team try to play out too, we can still defend high, we don't have quite as much ball but when we do, they are relatively open. When we have 70%+ it tends to be they are camped in Parky style, we haven't had the quality to break them down, and then we either draw 0-0 or they take a chance (we're always going to give chances away, that's the risk-reward bit I'm talking about above). I don't really think it's in our gift to change that. I don't think we an manufacture "have less possession and so win more". If the other team stay sat in, then you aren't going to get the benefit we have in those games above where teams have more possession because they come out. There we need to a) be better at plan A, and I think Charles, a fit Amaechi and some improvements in midfield will help, and b) have a plan B. I broadly think that's what Bakayoko was signed for. 70mins, 0-0 at home and you can bring him on and have a focal point for crosses. We're not going to start going long, but you ask a different question. Obviously, injuries to him and others have meant that hasn't really been an option.

I think the other question then is in a game like today, when you know you don't have the midfield, do you change approach? Defend deep on purpose, stop crosses, try to snatch a point? I can see the force of that, and if I thought we were in any real danger of going down I'd be arguing for it, but I'm pretty confident we're going to be playing in L1 again next year so I can see the merit in keeping the habits the same, trying to learn under adversity within the gameplan and back that when we have signings everybody fit the benefit in the longrun of having an "identity" will be worth it. Can see the counter, but that isn't Evatt's way and I'm fine with it.

Tl;dr, in an Evatt team I'd ideally like another centre-back to partner Santos but I think Aimson is fine for now and so it wouldn't be top of my shopping list. Defending is obviously an issue right now but I don't think the biggest issue is personnel at CB. It's personnel in CM that mean we are having to defend regularly in a way we aren't suited to.

[officer_dibble]

MJ will be back next game, Lee out for longer:
https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/1 ... d-torment/

Need that Centre mid signing ASAP.

[BWFC_Insane]

There is a danger we are starting to believe in some imaginary hype. We are currently a bottom half, closer to relegation than the play offs, league one side.

If you want to compare with Parky’s side we currently exactly half way through the season. We are on track to score 8 fewer goals and concede essentially double the goals that team did. So by no metric are we better. Not one.


I’m not having this constant pretence we are Man City or Barcelona. We are in the trenches in league one and conceding too many goals. Our centre halves are all poor. Very poor. And Wheater and Beevers would walk into this side even with a bad back each. They are just far superior players to the collection of rejects and non league losers we have there. Santos is absolute garbage. Let’s stop pretending. A weak, soft mistake ridden defender. Let’s just call a spade a spade. He came from non league for a reason. He’s not very good.

Comparing him with players who even on their worst day are ten times better is just nonsense.

[Worthy4England]

In fairness, it was a very good explanation that if your CF commands 100% possession every game, you don't lose many.