January 2022 Transfer Thread

[GhostoftheBok]

I think you're right people need to be consistent, but there have been a range of views when it has come up elsewhere. I think it's difficult. On the one hand you can't do nothing, but I also think it's grossly unfair to punish a 26yo for something they said when they were 16. Age, severity, remorse should all be factors, it's hard to come up with a policy to apply, IMO.

Sure. People change a lot from their early/mid teens to adulthood. You brain is still developing at that age for one thing.

However, there's no way for the league to say "Ah, he was young, so racism and homophobia are fine."

There will have to be some action taken. There's also no way to know that he doesn't currently have exactly the same views. All we can go off is that he said this publicly. Racism (especially towards Asians) and homophobia are rampant in the game. It's been years since I worked for a club, but when I was in the game it was a complete mess - from the boardroom to the playing squad. They have to be seen to be challenging that culture.

The FV lot have made statements about zero tolerance of all kinds of negative behaviour. Even if the league somehow remained unaware of this they will need to take internal action.

[GhostoftheBok]

Also worth noting that the manager has made a big deal of knowing Charles personally when he was tweeting these kinds of things out.

[Prufrock]

I think you're right people need to be consistent, but there have been a range of views when it has come up elsewhere. I think it's difficult. On the one hand you can't do nothing, but I also think it's grossly unfair to punish a 26yo for something they said when they were 16. Age, severity, remorse should all be factors, it's hard to come up with a policy to apply, IMO.

Sure. People change a lot from their early/mid teens to adulthood. You brain is still developing at that age for one thing.

However, there's no way for the league to say "Ah, he was young, so racism and homophobia are fine."

There will have to be some action taken. There's also no way to know that he doesn't currently have exactly the same views. All we can go off is that he said this publicly. Racism (especially towards Asians) and homophobia are rampant in the game. It's been years since I worked for a club, but when I was in the game it was a complete mess - from the boardroom to the playing squad. They have to be seen to be challenging that culture.

The FV lot have made statements about zero tolerance of all kinds of negative behaviour. Even if the league somehow remained unaware of this they will need to take internal action.

Oh absolutely. Not suggesting at all either the club or the league say "ah he was young, forget about it".

My view is that at one end, if an e.g. 26yo old player tweets something like that now the league absolutely should get involved and there should be a ban.

If there's a tweet from a now 26 year old who said it when they were 14, they apologise, seen genuine, do some work with the club, maybe meet with an Asian supporters group, an LGB supporters group, that sort of thing to show they have matured and changed, I don't think there should be a ban.

And in between I don't know! It's probably got to be case by case but as far as a policy aim goes I'm against hard punishments for tweets sent as a kid (absent aggravating factors, e.g if he said he still believed it).

[Worthy4England]

There's no way Bolton would have let him keep those tweets up if they'd have checked his account, so it does smack of poor due diligence.

I've had this as part of my job before. A club of Bolton's size should be outsourcing it to a media/PR firm. The don't have the staff numbers to do it properly for every member of staff in all departments.

Agree, they might get a fee for a couple of days work etc. But in the context of what they're spending on the asset, it's gonna be small beer...

[Prufrock]

Also worth noting that the manager has made a big deal of knowing Charles personally when he was tweeting these kinds of things out.

I read his comments as being he's got first hand experience of what he's like in the sense that it's less of a risk then signing a player you don't know. Charles was 17 when 32yo Evatt left Blackpool, I'm not sure they were discussing his tweets, I think he just meant more he knows he trains well (given the attitude issues after a Accrington). Given what you've said about dressing rooms it's not impossible there was some "banter" ( ) but I think it's a big stretch to connect those dots at the moment!

[GhostoftheBok]

And in between I don't know! It's probably got to be case by case but as far as a policy aim goes I'm against hard punishments for tweets sent as a kid (absent aggravating factors, e.g if he said he still believed it).

How you deal with it is a discussion worth having. What I'd say is that the club and fans can have no complaints with whatever punishment is handed down, if it's in line with the regs. He shouldn't have said those things, the club should have known he had said them. This discussion goes beyond football and into our wider problems as a society; but in this instance everyone has to face up to this and just deal with it.

[GhostoftheBok]

I've deleted this one. Quoting folk I can't name is probably unhelpful.

[Worthy4England]

Also worth noting that the manager has made a big deal of knowing Charles personally when he was tweeting these kinds of things out.

Of course it might not have come up in day to day interactions...I'm not convinced Evatt's dumb enough to hope we'd get away with employing someone overtly racist and if he had any inkling he's a fool to himself....I thought he'd also said he doesn't really use social media (but I could've dreamt that bit)...

People often hide what they think...

[BWFC_Insane]

It’s nothing to do with Evatt. He can’t know this stuff or have time to be on top of it. But I’m surprised FV aren’t. It’s standard due diligence for many businesses now.

[Prufrock]

I've deleted this one. Quoting folk I can't name is probably unhelpful.

Oh come on, be a messy bitch

[GhostoftheBok]

Of course it might not have come up in day to day interactions...I'm not convinced Evatt's dumb enough to hope we'd get away with employing someone overtly racist and if he had any inkling he's a fool to himself....I thought he'd also said he doesn't really use social media (but I could've dreamt that bit)...

People often hide what they think...

I keep writing and deleting posts on this.

Hopefully you are right. I hope the club deals with this, that Charles is a better person now and this is the last trouble we have with him.

I am concerned by things I have heard this afternoon and will leave it at that.

[GhostoftheBok]

It’s nothing to do with Evatt. He can’t know this stuff or have time to be on top of it. But I’m surprised FV aren’t. It’s standard due diligence for many businesses now.

Recruitment is a split process at most clubs, especially for players signed on the manager's recommendation.

There's plenty of blame to go around when someone cocks up.

Mostly the blame belongs to Charles himself, but hopefully the club learns lessons.

[Bertie Wooster]

He has just come out with a formal apology, it was 10 years ago when he was 16/17 years old and I'm sure he has done a lot of growing up over the last 10 years, give the lad a break I say.

[GhostoftheBok]

Mail is reporting FA has launched an investigation.

[TANGODANCER]

Just a couple of points not offered as solutions:

Consistently turning over old stones achieves absolutely nothing except ill-will and mischief makers have a field day as long as it's alive... I agree with Pru that age is no excuse beyond totally foolish youth, but even youth must be made aware of the penalties whatever age and that's down to teachers not pupils. If would be De Bruyne's realise there's no career to be had for anyone guilty of uttering or promoting racism they may (except for the mindless few) think twice. Managers and coaches in any sport are the God parents of their charges and must start to accept that.

Racism itself has got wildly out of hand when a Frenchman, German, Pakistani or Irishman etc, can't be referred to as such, but doing it publicly in a derogatory manner, particularly in such a media conscious area as sport just has to stop. As kids, every boy had replica rifles, pistols, swords etc, ( hey, they used to sell army rifles with the metal removed, we all had them) but that doesn't happen today not because of kids, but thieves, burglars, gangsters and no-goods outlawed it. Point is, laws had to be made and enforced against it. They didn't totally stop it (they never will at street level) , but certainly made a strong point about law enforcement for the guilty. In short, as long as it's controversial, the controversy stirrers will have somewhere to go and certain media outlets exist on such.

The answer is: Answers on a post card please to..."Whom it may concern"

[Prufrock]

And in between I don't know! It's probably got to be case by case but as far as a policy aim goes I'm against hard punishments for tweets sent as a kid (absent aggravating factors, e.g if he said he still believed it).

How you deal with it is a discussion worth having. What I'd say is that the club and fans can have no complaints with whatever punishment is handed down, if it's in line with the regs. He shouldn't have said those things, the club should have known he had said them. This discussion goes beyond football and into our wider problems as a society; but in this instance everyone has to face up to this and just deal with it.

Agree with the rest. On the highlighted I think individuals can still think the way it is dealt with is wrong. Some will twist themselves in knots to claim they're being consistent when they're not, but plenty have argued that way it is dealt with is wrong in previous situations.

Club need to speak to Charles first and depending on that come up with a plan. You hope he's embarrassed/repentent and so you try to mitigate on his behalf and as importantly sort messaging targeted at Asian/gay fans. If he's not you have to take other action.

Did we keep the receipt?

[TANGODANCER]

Mail is reporting FA has launched an investigation.

They and the Mail will of course compensate Bolton for any losses they make due to their "findings"?

[GhostoftheBok]

Agree with the rest. On the highlighted I think individuals can still think the way it is dealt with is wrong. Some will twist themselves in knots to claim they're being consistent when they're not, but plenty have argued that way it is dealt with is wrong in previous situations.

Club need to speak to Charles first and depending on that come up with a plan. You hope he's embarrassed/repentent and so you try to mitigate on his behalf and as importantly sort messaging targeted at Asian/gay fans. If he's not you have to take other action.

Did we keep the receipt?

The FA is now formally investigating, so it's beyond speaking to him and coming up with a plan at this point. The club needs to be immediately communicating with the relevant bodies.

Charles has apparently made a statement on twitter apologising (I don't follow him and his tweets are now protected).

Previous similar incidents have seen bans and fines. I think you can say that's wrong if you feel it is, but as a club we can't argue with it happening. We didn't check properly (or worse, did and let it go) and we should be aware of what happens when the governing bods get involved.

[Prufrock]

Agreed. Given his apology on Twitter has left in quote marks before and after the body of it, but before the sign off, it's look like some sort of PR is being done!

[Worthy4England]

Lol