January 2022 Transfer Thread

[BWFC_Insane]

Why didn’t he say in the summer that we were a work in progress instead of saying we had all our top targets and promotion was the aim?

Followed up with months of telling us we were superb and didn’t need any other players. Culminating in the ‘best side in the league’ embarrassment.

Obviously Evatt vastly underestimated league one or singed badly. I can live with either but can he stop this cycle of ballooning unnecessarily at the start of a season and just waiting to see how things look?

Thing is, he did say this in the summer and he didn't say we were the best team in the league in the way people like to make out.

Evatt:

People will say that’s arrogance, that’s overconfidence. But on performances I believe we’re the best team in the league. We should have won all those games.

The key parts there are "on performances" and "We should have won all those games."

In the summer Evatt said his squad still needed layering, he's used that exact word numerous times. He said we were the best team in the league on performances, not in terms of his 20-25 players available.

I still think he was talking bollocks, but marginally less bollocks than people make out.

In the summer he said promotion was the aim. Repeatedly. It was stupid. And I was at Sheffield Wednesday and heard his interview on the way home. It wasn’t nuanced it was a huge mistake that has bitten us. Why can’t you just say the man is a bit of a balloon? He’s a lot to learn about management in league one. I’m happy for him to do that here so long as he learns and we progress. But I never want to hear him talk like that again.

[GhostoftheBok]

In the summer he said promotion was the aim.

Why can’t you just say the man is a bit of a balloon?

He's still saying that.

I have, repeatedly. When we signed him I wrote entire posts on exactly that. I said specifically that I thought he'd do a good job and get us promoted, but he'd find it harder to man manage players and keep fans onside because he's full of shit. "Human form of a bad self help book", I think was how I put it. Doesn't mean I have an issue or frustration with him. I understood what we were getting.

[Worthy4England]

I'm not convinced by the narrative that he "just assembled a squad to get out of League 2." - ignoring "depth" for a minute if you look at the sort of team that finished L2 season

GK (Gilks) - struggle due to age, needed replacing, was.
RWB - played most of his games in L2, but we thought he'd make L1 and I think we were right
CD (Santos) - everyone said he was a Champo beast...
CD (Baps) - knew we had a problem with age - looked to resolve through Johnston/Aimson
LWB (John) - 80% of his games have been above L2 - so think he thought "great"
MF (MJ) - played the most of his games in L1
MF (Lee) - all but 20 of his 360 appearances above L3 - bought Sheehan
MF (Sarce) - Played over 50% of his games in L1.
FWR (Isgrove) - played more than half his league games above L2 - bought Kacha in to solve any problem with step-up
CF (Doyle) - played a lot of games above L2 (some doubt he'd step up at his age) - tried to buy striker in summer, failed. Got Baka
FWL (Dapo) - Good signing (despite current form) - made the step up.

I think he thought that squad would be good enough...(not maybe to win the League - but certainly not to struggle) - Obviously most of that squad hasn't been available enough...but that's a different conversation to "assembled a squad for L2 only" - which I don't buy.

[GhostoftheBok]

I'm not convinced by the narrative that he "just assembled a squad to get out of League 2." - ignoring "depth" for a minute if you look at the sort of team that finished L2 season

GK (Gilks) - struggle due to age, needed replacing, was.
RWB - played most of his games in L2, but we thought he'd make L1 and I think we were right
CD (Santos) - everyone said he was a Champo beast...
CD (Baps) - knew we had a problem with age - looked to resolve through Johnston/Aimson
LWB (John) - 80% of his games have been above L2 - so think he thought "great"
MF (MJ) - played the most of his games in L1
MF (Lee) - all but 20 of his 360 appearances above L3 - bought Sheehan
MF (Sarce) - Played over 50% of his games in L1.
FWR (Isgrove) - played more than half his league games above L2 - bought Kacha in to solve any problem with step-up
CF (Doyle) - played a lot of games above L2 (some doubt he'd step up at his age) - tried to buy striker in summer, failed. Got Baka
FWL (Dapo) - Good signing (despite current form) - made the step up.

I think he thought that squad would be good enough...(not maybe to win the League - but certainly not to struggle) - Obviously most of that squad hasn't been available enough...but that's a different conversation to "assembled a squad for L2 only" - which I don't buy.

Wouldn't those lads fall under his "14 or 15"?

[Prufrock]

Ha! I wrote a really long post on exactly this a couple of weeks ago. He wasn't saying we're the number 1 team in the division full stop, we will finish #1. He was saying we've started really well and deserve to be top at the moment.

But I deleted it because frankly, it doesn't matter. I'd rather have a manager who said we were the best team in the league and finished 20th than who said we were the 21st best team and finished 21st.

Was a bit of a daft thing to say as it got taken out of context (and picked up by Richardson pre-Wigan) but doesn't mean anything.

In any event, he likes to give it the big one, set goals, but settle for second best. Makes him look a bit of a nice person at times but I couldn't care less about that, I care about the job he does.

In any event, he likes to give it the big one, set goals, but settle for second best. Makes him look a bit of a nice person at times but I couldn't care less about that, I care about the job he does.

[BWFC_Insane]

Ha! I wrote a really long post on exactly this a couple of weeks ago. He wasn't saying we're the number 1 team in the division full stop, we will finish #1. He was saying we've started really well and deserve to be top at the moment.

But I deleted it because frankly, it doesn't matter. I'd rather have a manager who said we were the best team in the league and finished 20th than who said we were the 21st best team and finished 21st.

Was a bit of a daft thing to say as it got taken out of context (and picked up by Richardson pre-Wigan) but doesn't mean anything.

In any event, he likes to give it the big one, set goals, but settle for second best. Makes him look a bit of a nice person at times but I couldn't care less about that, I care about the job he does.

In any event, he likes to give it the big one, set goals, but settle for second best. Makes him look a bit of a nice person at times but I couldn't care less about that, I care about the job he does.

It caused a lot of issues in the dressing room. Players were not happy. At all.

[BWFC_Insane]

In the summer he said promotion was the aim.

Why can’t you just say the man is a bit of a balloon?

He's still saying that.

I have, repeatedly. When we signed him I wrote entire posts on exactly that. I said specifically that I thought he'd do a good job and get us promoted, but he'd find it harder to man manage players and keep fans onside because he's full of shit. "Human form of a bad self help book", I think was how I put it. Doesn't mean I have an issue or frustration with him. I understood what we were getting.

That’s fair enough. But he needs to learn and change. The best managers evolve over their career. It’s essential. So Evatt has to. Surely you agree? He’s nowhere near the established manager with 20 years experience to be in the ‘he is what he is’ category. He needs to get better. For all our sakes. And evolve his approach.

[Prufrock]

Ha! I wrote a really long post on exactly this a couple of weeks ago. He wasn't saying we're the number 1 team in the division full stop, we will finish #1. He was saying we've started really well and deserve to be top at the moment.

But I deleted it because frankly, it doesn't matter. I'd rather have a manager who said we were the best team in the league and finished 20th than who said we were the 21st best team and finished 21st.

Was a bit of a daft thing to say as it got taken out of context (and picked up by Richardson pre-Wigan) but doesn't mean anything.

In any event, he likes to give it the big one, set goals, but settle for second best. Makes him look a bit of a nice person at times but I couldn't care less about that, I care about the job he does.

In any event, he likes to give it the big one, set goals, but settle for second best. Makes him look a bit of a nice person at times but I couldn't care less about that, I care about the job he does.

It caused a lot of issues in the dressing room. Players were not happy. At all.

All right, Deep Throat.

[GhostoftheBok]

That’s fair enough. But he needs to learn and change. The best managers evolve over their career. It’s essential. So Evatt has to. Surely you agree? He’s nowhere near the established manager with 20 years experience to be in the ‘he is what he is’ category. He needs to get better. For all our sakes. And evolve his approach.

I agree with those words, I don't think I agree with how you mean all of them.

He needs to learn to be a better Ian Evatt, not morph into another manager. He also needs media training, as I've said from the day he walked in.

I have very few issues with him. Set pieces bug me. His arrogance about goalkeepers. The rest is a process. He's young and needs to learn, like you say, but that's all managers ever. I don't expect him to learn it all immediately and even being this naive waster you seem to see he took us up and we're in a position to remain up. He's reet.

[BWFC_Insane]

That’s fair enough. But he needs to learn and change. The best managers evolve over their career. It’s essential. So Evatt has to. Surely you agree? He’s nowhere near the established manager with 20 years experience to be in the ‘he is what he is’ category. He needs to get better. For all our sakes. And evolve his approach.

I agree with those words, I don't think I agree with how you mean all of them.

He needs to learn to be a better Ian Evatt, not morph into another manager. He also needs media training, as I've said from the day he walked in.

I have very few issues with him. Set pieces bug me. His arrogance about goalkeepers. The rest is a process. He's young and needs to learn, like you say, but that's all managers ever. I don't expect him to learn it all immediately and even being this naive waster you seem to see he took us up and we're in a position to remain up. He's reet.

He needs to primarily realise that football is about maximising results with the players and resources you have available. Squeezing every single point out. Unless you have that mindset you will fail as a manager.

Once you say ‘we can’t do this or that because I have a brand’ you have failed.

[Prufrock]

Literally no-one, Evatt or otherwise, has ever said anything of the sort.

Not Evatt when he talked at Plymouth about them being thick trying to play in those conditions, or when he's talked numerous times about needing to be better in both boxes and roll up sleeves and show resilience.

The only think remote close to that anyone has said is that players have been signed to play a certain way, high press, high line, front foot, and so going away from that to try to defend deep and sit in won't work. That's nothing at all to do with a "brand" and everything to do with "maximising results with the players and resources you have available".

You can argue lots of things, that that's wrong and we would be better off defending deep even with those players (or others in the squad), that that's right but the manager is to blame for the use of those resources. But you can't argue that anyone at all is saying a "brand" is more important that results.

[BWFC_Insane]

Literally no-one, Evatt or otherwise, has ever said anything of the sort.

Not Evatt when he talked at Plymouth about them being thick trying to play in those conditions, or when he's talked numerous times about needing to be better in both boxes and roll up sleeves and show resilience.

The only think remote close to that anyone has said is that players have been signed to play a certain way, high press, high line, front foot, and so going away from that to try to defend deep and sit in won't work. That's nothing at all to do with a "brand" and everything to do with "maximising results with the players and resources you have available".

You can argue lots of things, that that's wrong and we would be better off defending deep even with those players (or others in the squad), that that's right but the manager is to blame for the use of those resources. But you can't argue that anyone at all is saying a "brand" is more important that results.

People clearly are. Otherwise we could sign some proper centre halves sit a bit deeper and use our new pace up top to play a more balanced game.

Yet people say defenders who can defend that we can afford can’t fit what Evatt wants. And we are losing. So he needs to change.


What we are doing isn’t working. So do something else to get results until you feel what you were doing will work. It’s not rocket science.

[Prufrock]

That's tactical and nothing to do with a "brand". It's a difference of opinion on the best way to maximise results and points.

You have your own view which is of course your prerogative but you're just going to have to deal with the fact that others disagree and it's nothing to do with any "brand" bollocks.

[BWFC_Insane]

That's tactical and nothing to do with a "brand". It's a difference of opinion on the best way to maximise results and points.

You have your own view which is of course your prerogative but you're just going to have to deal with the fact that others disagree and it's nothing to do with any "brand" bollocks.

We have enough evidence to categorically say defensively we aren’t and haven’t been good all season. So when will that be changed?

If we are playing how we are and it’s not working. How can anyone argue that doing more of it is the way to get better?

Why couldn’t we for example, buy a Beevers style centre back, drop a bit deeper and allow the pace of our front three to threaten teams on the counter and in behind? It would compress space in midfield which is also a major problem and help out MJ.

I’ve absolutely no idea why stretching the pitch for an ineffective press and continuing to concede goals under no pressure is a viable plan.

We actually have a potential front three now that favours a different setup. It would greatly help midfield. And the back line is leaky anyway, so why not?

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Not necessarily arguing with your tactical advice - although Mr Evatt surely would - but there's a problem with your plan, BWFCi.

Dropping your defence a bit deeper (say, round a Beevers) doesn't compress the space in midfield, it expands it.

Unless you mean dropping the entire XI deeper. With a pacy front line that's possible, but tiring. It also tends to cede ground so that your opponents are picking their pass (and, frighteningly, crosses) from much closer to your goal.

Every tactic, every formation, has pluses and minuses. That'll be why there's more than one of them.

[Prufrock]

That's tactical and nothing to do with a "brand". It's a difference of opinion on the best way to maximise results and points.

You have your own view which is of course your prerogative but you're just going to have to deal with the fact that others disagree and it's nothing to do with any "brand" bollocks.

We have enough evidence to categorically say defensively we aren’t and haven’t been good all season. So when will that be changed?

If we are playing how we are and it’s not working. How can anyone argue that doing more of it is the way to get better?

Why couldn’t we for example, buy a Beevers style centre back, drop a bit deeper and allow the pace of our front three to threaten teams on the counter and in behind? It would compress space in midfield which is also a major problem and help out MJ.

I’ve absolutely no idea why stretching the pitch for an ineffective press and continuing to concede goals under no pressure is a viable plan.

We actually have a potential front three now that favours a different setup. It would greatly help midfield. And the back line is leaky anyway, so why not?

Except I don't agree we have categorically shown that. I think injuries both in midfield (big long-term ones and short term ones all at once, along with Sarc going) and at the back (long term Jones, lots of short term ones, see stat that we've only had a thrice unchanged back four once all season) are why we have struggled recently.

I think that's borne out by the fact that before the injuries we were knocking around top 8 (and imo had been relatively "unlucky" in games).

I think that now Jones is back, and we have some cover there, and now we are signing midfielders to give us an actual midfield we will see a gradual then significant improvement both on recent form and eventually on even where we were before the injuries. I'd like a keeper and a CB as well if possible, but a CB who is quick enough and comfortable enough on the ball to play this way rather than a Wheater.

You are more than entitled to disagree with that, I'm not saying you're definitely wrong (though I think you're pissing in the wind if you think Evatt is going to do that) but you haven't "categorically proven" anything, and the reason I disagree with you isn't because of anything to do with a brand but because I think it's a style that better suits the players we have and are likely to sign and more likely to maximise the results and points we get over the medium (i.e. this season) and long term (beyond).

[BWFC_Insane]

Not necessarily arguing with your tactical advice - although Mr Evatt surely would - but there's a problem with your plan, BWFCi.

Dropping your defence a bit deeper (say, round a Beevers) doesn't compress the space in midfield, it expands it.

Unless you mean dropping the entire XI deeper. With a pacy front line that's possible, but tiring. It also tends to cede ground so that your opponents are picking their pass (and, frighteningly, crosses) from much closer to your goal.

Every tactic, every formation, has pluses and minuses. That'll be why there's more than one of them.

Yes I mean sitting a bit deeper and press the half way line as a more connected unit. And use the pace of the front three to counter and exploit the space down the channels as inevitably we draw teams onto us.

I agree that it has its risks. If you have more crosses coming in you have more defending to do. However, equally I do think the midfield is being asked to cover the whole pitch now and they cannot. The press is ineffective because we aren’t backing it up. So what happens is we take two out of the game then ask the rest to cover a huge area. It’s partly why I think we concede so many goals under no pressure. Too much space to cover and we simply aren’t strong enough to press teams effectively.

End of the day I suspect we can get joy against weaker sides. But better sides beat us too easily because they play us at our own game and are better at it. See Wigan.

So I’d like us to have a change to deal with this.

I’d also go 4231 to reinforce midfield and allow the front 4 a bit more freedom but mainly because our full backs need licence to get forward more and extra protection in midfield is the only way to do this or three at the back.

[BWFC_Insane]

That's tactical and nothing to do with a "brand". It's a difference of opinion on the best way to maximise results and points.

You have your own view which is of course your prerogative but you're just going to have to deal with the fact that others disagree and it's nothing to do with any "brand" bollocks.

We have enough evidence to categorically say defensively we aren’t and haven’t been good all season. So when will that be changed?

If we are playing how we are and it’s not working. How can anyone argue that doing more of it is the way to get better?

Why couldn’t we for example, buy a Beevers style centre back, drop a bit deeper and allow the pace of our front three to threaten teams on the counter and in behind? It would compress space in midfield which is also a major problem and help out MJ.

I’ve absolutely no idea why stretching the pitch for an ineffective press and continuing to concede goals under no pressure is a viable plan.

We actually have a potential front three now that favours a different setup. It would greatly help midfield. And the back line is leaky anyway, so why not?

Except I don't agree we have categorically shown that. I think injuries both in midfield (big long-term ones and short term ones all at once, along with Sarc going) and at the back (long term Jones, lots of short term ones, see stat that we've only had a thrice unchanged back four once all season) are why we have struggled recently.

I think that's borne out by the fact that before the injuries we were knocking around top 8 (and imo had been relatively "unlucky" in games).

I think that now Jones is back, and we have some cover there, and now we are signing midfielders to give us an actual midfield we will see a gradual then significant improvement both on recent form and eventually on even where we were before the injuries. I'd like a keeper and a CB as well if possible, but a CB who is quick enough and comfortable enough on the ball to play this way rather than a Wheater.

You are more than entitled to disagree with that, I'm not saying you're definitely wrong (though I think you're pissing in the wind if you think Evatt is going to do that) but you haven't "categorically proven" anything, and the reason I disagree with you isn't because of anything to do with a brand but because I think it's a style that better suits the players we have and are likely to sign and more likely to maximise the results and points we get over the medium (i.e. this season) and long term (beyond).

Before the issues and fall out we had the confidence of a promotion bounce and a team that was absolutely working tirelessly for each other. Either they fell out, or tiredness caught up or whatever. But we aren’t in the same place.

I see it as akin to Coyle playing the same way with Holden and Muamba doing the job of 3 players and yet still asking a midfield made up of a winger and a striker to do the same thing. It just is madness.

Even before the injuries etc the better teams came and rolled us too easily and I think that was symptomatic that really how we played was being found out and exploited by teams. Even some we’ve won were somewhat inspite of the setup rather than because of it. I don’t think we need abandon it, but just like is not expect a bottom half premiership side to go to Anfield and press on the halfway line I think there are times no matter what Evatt prefers we need to have another option.

And I sympathise that pre Charles and Fossey sitting deeper looked a bit…of a no go. We now have pace. But pace is best used into space not when the other team are waiting to win the ball back.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Been doing a little compare-and-contrast on three midfielders: Aaron Morley, Kyle Dempsey and Jordan Shipley.

I’ve compared their stats in their last League One season – so that’s 20/21 for Morley and Dempsey, 19/20 for Shipley. Using WhoScored’s data, I’ve compared their passes, key passes (ie ones leading to an effort on goal), shots, tackles etc – and for fairness, the numbers are all per 90 minutes.

For each, I’ve also given their ranking among their League One competitors that season - namely, centre-mids playing 20+ games. Small note here that there were about 80 of these for Morley/Dempsey’s 2020/21 season, but only 30-odd for Shipley’s 2019/20 (Covid-truncated season). I’ve colour-rated these rankings - green for good, red for bad.
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Screenshot 2022-01-13 at 16.05.13.png (215.92 KiB) Viewed 821 times

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First note is that Morley is a good signing in terms of passing and its more important big brother, key passing (creating chances rather than Comleyesque tiki-taka). Rochdale were relegated, so he did really well to post such productive numbers. Indeed, they scored more than promoted Blackpool.

Shipley’s 2019/20 was better than Dempsey’s 2020/21, although it should be noted that Coventry won the title and Gills finished 10th. Shipley got 5 goals and 7 assists, Dempsey 8 goals and 2 assists. Shipley’s chance creation stats are impressive: indicative perhaps of being more of a team player? or being in a better team?

[The_Gun]

Not necessarily arguing with your tactical advice - although Mr Evatt surely would - but there's a problem with your plan, BWFCi.

Dropping your defence a bit deeper (say, round a Beevers) doesn't compress the space in midfield, it expands it.

Unless you mean dropping the entire XI deeper. With a pacy front line that's possible, but tiring. It also tends to cede ground so that your opponents are picking their pass (and, frighteningly, crosses) from much closer to your goal.

Every tactic, every formation, has pluses and minuses. That'll be why there's more than one of them.

Yes I mean sitting a bit deeper and press the half way line as a more connected unit. And use the pace of the front three to counter and exploit the space down the channels as inevitably we draw teams onto us.

I agree that it has its risks. If you have more crosses coming in you have more defending to do. However, equally I do think the midfield is being asked to cover the whole pitch now and they cannot. The press is ineffective because we aren’t backing it up. So what happens is we take two out of the game then ask the rest to cover a huge area. It’s partly why I think we concede so many goals under no pressure. Too much space to cover and we simply aren’t strong enough to press teams effectively.

End of the day I suspect we can get joy against weaker sides. But better sides beat us too easily because they play us at our own game and are better at it. See Wigan.

So I’d like us to have a change to deal with this.

I’d also go 4231 to reinforce midfield and allow the front 4 a bit more freedom but mainly because our full backs need licence to get forward more and extra protection in midfield is the only way to do this or three at the back.

I don't really get why he hasn't reverted to playing two sitting midfielders. He's clearly not averse to it, as he used it most of last season and was very successful with it.