Deal or no deal? - Summer 2022 Transfer gossip!

[irie Cee Bee]

What I am saying Ghost is that to me, Dapo is in my opinion harder to replace in terms of what he brings to the team. Both are good players so this is not a comparison re who is better, but I think we would miss Dapo more than Santos if they go rather than the other way around. Harder to find a good goal scorer than a good defender in todays world of football. That's why goal scoring attackers are valued so much higher in the market than defenders.

[GhostoftheBok]

I got that, yes, and I generally agree about goals being the most valuable property in football; but Santos clearly brings a lot more to our game that just defensive ability.

He allows us to play a high line with him as sole cover, because he eats any striker in the division one-on-one. He switches play and picks runners from that deep pivot position. He breaks the lines by carrying the ball through the initial press.

How do we replace all that stuff? We can probably find a good defender, but that still leaves a massive hole in everything we have done well this season.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

It’s partly tactical. It’s also the current balance of the squad. Right now on the bench we usually have two or three attacking threats to bring on as subs. I wouldn’t even like to guess who our third-choice defensive sub is. Evatt?

[BWFC_Insane]

I got that, yes, and I generally agree about goals being the most valuable property in football; but Santos clearly brings a lot more to our game that just defensive ability.

He allows us to play a high line with him as sole cover, because he eats any striker in the division one-on-one. He switches play and picks runners from that deep pivot position. He breaks the lines by carrying the ball through the initial press.

How do we replace all that stuff? We can probably find a good defender, but that still leaves a massive hole in everything we have done well this season.

Except we haven’t been massively worse or less effective without him in the side in the past few games. Not compared to the games he was playing in before. The only bit I’d say that has been apparent is less aerial presence and that needs improving regardless..

[GhostoftheBok]

Except we haven’t been massively worse or less effective without him in the side in the past few games.

We have, though. When Evatt said the other day that we couldn't figure out how to play through the Accy press that was us missing Santos. We were very, very lucky not to let 2-3 in precisely because we missed Santos' ability to break the press and pick runners.

[GhostoftheBok]

It’s partly tactical. It’s also the current balance of the squad. Right now on the bench we usually have two or three attacking threats to bring on as subs. I wouldn’t even like to guess who our third-choice defensive sub is. Evatt?

Yes to all this, but it's the tactical thing that is key. We can't play the way that got us the most success this season without Santos in the side. We don't have a press-resistant defender who can break lines and play out and we have relied on that to get through sides that press us high. We also can't push the line up as high without him in there. So we have to play differently.

I have no issue with adapting our game to overcome the loss of a key player and losing Santos doesn't have to be fatal, but I think saying that Santos is replaced by just "getting a better defender" is entirely wrong and we need to realise that it will mean really shaking up how we do things.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

My main memory of Curcic was a fantastic goal he scored at Hillsborough... in a heavy defeat. Cracking business in the end.

Was that the one immediately after half time that I missed getting me bovril?

[BWFC_Insane]

Except we haven’t been massively worse or less effective without him in the side in the past few games.

We have, though. When Evatt said the other day that we couldn't figure out how to play through the Accy press that was us missing Santos. We were very, very lucky not to let 2-3 in precisely because we missed Santos' ability to break the press and pick runners.

Completely disagree. When we had two proper strikers up front we looked a much better team because whoever you had in your back four against Accy wasn’t going to change that their midfield outcompeted ours and so bypassing it was our only hope. And to do that we needed strikers capable of making the ball stick in their half.

It didn’t need Santos, we won the game by utilising our strength up front. I am certain that Santos in the side would have made absolutely no difference because the press Wigan had against us for the first half we couldn’t break and Santos played in that. Nor could we break down an effective press in the home fixture either, famously so. Nor could we do so against Rotherham at home. And Santos played in all those games. There are countless others.

If we had Baka and Bod up front I don’t doubt we’d have done better in those games. As we did second half against Wigan when both those players appeared.

[brommers95]

In other news, promising young striker Tyreece Simpson has requested to leave Ipswich. He impressed on loan at Swindon in the first half of the season with 11 goals and 3 assists (all competitions)

His contract runs out this summer but Ipswich have the option to extend it by a further 12 months, which I’m sure they will do to get some sort of fee for him.

Intriguingly he’s only 20 so wouldn’t count against the squad limit for next season (or the season after that I think). I’m sure he’ll have some Championship teams interested but could be one to watch for us

[Worthy4England]

Except we haven’t been massively worse or less effective without him in the side in the past few games.

We have, though. When Evatt said the other day that we couldn't figure out how to play through the Accy press that was us missing Santos. We were very, very lucky not to let 2-3 in precisely because we missed Santos' ability to break the press and pick runners.

Completely disagree. When we had two proper strikers up front we looked a much better team because whoever you had in your back four against Accy wasn’t going to change that their midfield outcompeted ours and so bypassing it was our only hope. And to do that we needed strikers capable of making the ball stick in their half.

It didn’t need Santos, we won the game by utilising our strength up front. I am certain that Santos in the side would have made absolutely no difference because the press Wigan had against us for the first half we couldn’t break and Santos played in that. Nor could we break down an effective press in the home fixture either, famously so. Nor could we do so against Rotherham at home. And Santos played in all those games. There are countless others.

If we had Baka and Bod up front I don’t doubt we’d have done better in those games. As we did second half against Wigan when both those players appeared.

When you looked at the forwards selection and considered Santos wasn't in the team for Accrington, it looked a bit strange and left me wondering how that team was going to deliver. It just felt like "wrong starting combo" to me...

[GhostoftheBok]

When you looked at the forwards selection and considered Santos wasn't in the team for Accrington, it looked a bit strange and left me wondering how that team was going to deliver. It just felt like "wrong starting combo" to me...

This is kind of my point. With Santos in that side we could have broken the press and made that team selection work. What Evatt ended up having to do is change the approach. There's nothing wrong with that, but our most consistent points return came because we were able to do the other thing.

I think Santos leaving forces more adaptation than Dapo leaving.

[GhostoftheBok]

In other news, promising young striker Tyreece Simpson has requested to leave Ipswich.

I think I've mentioned him a few times and would love to see him in a Bolton shirt, with the usual caveats about being the right fit for the group etc.

One of the best prospects outside the Championship.

[Worthy4England]

When you looked at the forwards selection and considered Santos wasn't in the team for Accrington, it looked a bit strange and left me wondering how that team was going to deliver. It just felt like "wrong starting combo" to me...

This is kind of my point. With Santos in that side we could have broken the press and made that team selection work. What Evatt ended up having to do is change the approach. There's nothing wrong with that, but our most consistent points return came because we were able to do the other thing.

I think Santos leaving forces more adaptation than Dapo leaving.

I don't disagree that Santos leaving forces more adaptation than Dapo, which I don't think is what Evatt wants to do. The consistent points return, I think is a bit more difficult to demonstrate as Santos has only actually missed 7? games. I mean it's factually correct but Santos wasn't the only change, in a number of those games so it's a bit moot.

MKD D 3-3 - 5 changes to our current typical line up and Gilks had a bit of a moment.
Plymouth - L 3-0 - the back 4 included Brocky, Gordon and Baps...
Accrington L1-0 - Thomason, Dixon and Baps were also in the "spine" of the team...
Lincoln - W 3-1
Donny - W 2-1
Accrington - W 3-1
Sheff Wed - D 1-1...one of the two form teams in the Division

[BWFC_Insane]

When you looked at the forwards selection and considered Santos wasn't in the team for Accrington, it looked a bit strange and left me wondering how that team was going to deliver. It just felt like "wrong starting combo" to me...

This is kind of my point. With Santos in that side we could have broken the press and made that team selection work. What Evatt ended up having to do is change the approach. There's nothing wrong with that, but our most consistent points return came because we were able to do the other thing.

I think Santos leaving forces more adaptation than Dapo leaving.

Why couldn’t we play like that with Santos in the team then e.g Wigan games?

The solution is get the targets up top regardless of Santos in or out the side. Again as we’ve seen demonstrated recently.

[Worthy4England]

When you looked at the forwards selection and considered Santos wasn't in the team for Accrington, it looked a bit strange and left me wondering how that team was going to deliver. It just felt like "wrong starting combo" to me...

This is kind of my point. With Santos in that side we could have broken the press and made that team selection work. What Evatt ended up having to do is change the approach. There's nothing wrong with that, but our most consistent points return came because we were able to do the other thing.

I think Santos leaving forces more adaptation than Dapo leaving.

Why couldn’t we play like that with Santos in the team then e.g Wigan games?

The solution is get the targets up top regardless of Santos in or out the side. Again as we’ve seen demonstrated recently.

I think this is where it all gets a bit semantic. Because I'm with you, in that we could do that...I just don't think it's the way Evatt wants to play the game...

[Worthy4England]

On a semi related note. B(E)N Fans Survey 2022 is at the attached link

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/2 ... ball-club/

Apparently there were 2,000 respondents and they ask about squad strength...the highest "need to do something" rating was probably, unsurprisingly CB...

[GhostoftheBok]

I think this is where it all gets a bit semantic. Because I'm with you, in that we could do that...I just don't think it's the way Evatt wants to play the game...

There are lots of ways to win games of footy, yeah. Evatt's way is the most efficient statistically and also prettier than most, so I'm happy with it. Like I say, though, I agree that we could play differently with Santos in the side if we wanted to.

It's also not that you can't play "Evattball" without Santos (or a clone), but it does mean adjusting multiple positions and not just getting a new CB. Someone has to be able to reliably break the press.

What Evatt wanted to do against Accy was use Morley deeper to break the press, but as we've discussed before Morley isn't actually press resistant. His lack of a left peg means the opposition find it really easy to force passes in specific directions and can set traps. He's a terrific little playmaker for his age, but he's not the guy to break a good press - which Accy have. Williams is actually better than Morley when pressed, but he's not mobile enough to play the role Evatt needed. Dempsey may have that in him, but at the minute we don't know.

It's a puzzle that I'm sure they're aware needs solving and I trust them to do it.

[BWFC_Insane]

When you looked at the forwards selection and considered Santos wasn't in the team for Accrington, it looked a bit strange and left me wondering how that team was going to deliver. It just felt like "wrong starting combo" to me...

This is kind of my point. With Santos in that side we could have broken the press and made that team selection work. What Evatt ended up having to do is change the approach. There's nothing wrong with that, but our most consistent points return came because we were able to do the other thing.

I think Santos leaving forces more adaptation than Dapo leaving.

Why couldn’t we play like that with Santos in the team then e.g Wigan games?

The solution is get the targets up top regardless of Santos in or out the side. Again as we’ve seen demonstrated recently.

I think this is where it all gets a bit semantic. Because I'm with you, in that we could do that...I just don't think it's the way Evatt wants to play the game...

We’ve seen in recent times when we’ve struggled he’s put Baka and Bod up front and asked them to ‘make it stick higher up’. And it’s worked. I don’t think Evatt is shy of using that as a tactic against the press. He didn’t have those options before. Now he does and is using them.

I just don’t buy the suggestion that Santos is essential to beating the press. And the examples I showed were games we didn’t do that with santos in. And indeed the recent Wigan game where we failed with santos in the side and suddenly got back into it with the Bak/Bod pair up front and as Bod put it the instruction to ‘make it stick up front’.

[GhostoftheBok]

I just don’t buy the suggestion that Santos is essential to beating the press.

He's not. He's essential to beating the press in a controlled way. As Evatt said, we ended up going over Accy's press. He wants us to be able to through the press, as it offers us more options and allows us to maintain possession.

To play Evatt's ideal way you need to be able to go through the press, up to a target, in behind the fullbacks and over the top. It's about having all the tools in the toolkit and we were really close to getting there this season; but we couldn't get everyone on the pitch at once.

[officer_dibble]

What is a fair price for Santos then? A million quid? Given the year on his contract…be nice if we could get him to sign an extension with a release clause.